408.8375 Control Channel Fort Collins Area

[GlacierClipper]

Picking up a control channel on 408.8375 in the Fort Collins area. Both the GRE 600 and BCD996XT both showing this as a control channel. Not activity being heard.

Any help on this possible new site will be appreciated.

Could be a image also. Not sure.

 

[Craigslist]

I have listening to that for a month in the open but have not been paying attention to it

 

[rickak]

Looking in pro96com I'm guessing its a P25 phase 2 site. It's not downloading the identifier tables:

System ID: 3B9
Tower ID: 104
WACN: BEE00
Capabilities: Voice, Registration

Adjacent Sites:

101 - Ch 02-1890
102 - Ch 02-2108
103 - Ch 02-1493

Lots of unknown packets, etc...:


09 90 08 C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 5E 72 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=09 Mfg 90(Motorola) Binary Value: 00001000 11000000
B0 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA 86 B7 E9 01/21 07:31:30 Phase II Sync Broadcast - Unknown Format at this time
B0 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA 86 B7 E9 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=30 Mfg 00(Standard)
39 00 01 04 28 9C 04 28 5C 04 8A 54 01/21 07:31:30 Alternate Control Broadcast - Channel 1: 2-2204(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only Channel 2: 2-2140(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only
3C 00 00 33 B9 01 02 28 3C 70 D1 6A 01/21 07:31:30 Neighbor Status Broadcast - SysID: 3b9 Zone: 1 Site: 2 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Status: Connected Cap: Data,Voice,Registration
BB 00 00 BE E0 03 B9 28 3C 60 E9 5D 01/21 07:31:30 Network Status Broadcast - WACN: BEE00 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
05 90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D1 C3 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=05 Mfg 90(Motorola)
3A 00 00 33 B9 01 04 28 3C 60 97 7D 01/21 07:31:30 RFSS Status Broadcast - SysID: 3B9 Status: Connected Zone: 1 Site: 4 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
89 90 08 C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 BA 46 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=09 Mfg 90(Motorola) Binary Value: 00001000 11000000
30 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA A4 57 FD 01/21 07:31:30 Phase II Sync Broadcast - Unknown Format at this time
30 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA A4 57 FD 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=30 Mfg 00(Standard)
39 00 01 04 28 9C 04 28 5C 04 8A 54 01/21 07:31:30 Alternate Control Broadcast - Channel 1: 2-2204(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only Channel 2: 2-2140(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only
BC 00 00 33 B9 01 03 27 97 70 AE 5F 01/21 07:31:30 Neighbor Status Broadcast - SysID: 3b9 Zone: 1 Site: 3 Control: 2-1943(0.00000) Status: Connected Cap: Data,Voice,Registration
09 90 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 7E 03 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=09 Mfg 90(Motorola) Binary Value: 00000101 00000000
3B 00 00 BE E0 03 B9 28 3C 60 0D 69 01/21 07:31:30 Network Status Broadcast - WACN: BEE00 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
85 90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 35 F7 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=05 Mfg 90(Motorola)
37 FD 00 00 33 B9 81 3C 01 01 5B B2 01/21 07:31:30 Multi-Block Neighbor Status Broadcast 1 - SysID: 3b9 RFSS: 1 SiteID: 1 Status: Connected Follow: 1
27 62 2A 32 70 00 00 00 BD 38 BE AC 01/21 07:31:30 Multi-Block Neighbor Status Broadcast 2 - Control tx: 2-1890(0.00000) Control rx: 2-2610(0.00000) Cap: None Advertised
3A 00 00 33 B9 01 04 28 3C 60 97 7D 01/21 07:31:30 RFSS Status Broadcast - SysID: 3B9 Status: Connected Zone: 1 Site: 4 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
30 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA C2 5B 9D 01/21 07:31:30 Phase II Sync Broadcast - Unknown Format at this time
30 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA C2 5B 9D 01/21 07:31:30 Unknown Op=30 Mfg 00(Standard)
B9 00 01 04 28 9C 04 28 5C 04 6E 60 01/21 07:31:31 Alternate Control Broadcast - Channel 1: 2-2204(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only Channel 2: 2-2140(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only
09 90 08 C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 5E 72 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=09 Mfg 90(Motorola) Binary Value: 00001000 11000000
3B 00 00 BE E0 03 B9 28 3C 60 0D 69 01/21 07:31:31 Network Status Broadcast - WACN: BEE00 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
85 90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 35 F7 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=05 Mfg 90(Motorola)
3C 00 00 33 B9 01 02 28 3C 70 D1 6A 01/21 07:31:31 Neighbor Status Broadcast - SysID: 3b9 Zone: 1 Site: 2 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Status: Connected Cap: Data,Voice,Registration
3A 00 00 33 B9 01 04 28 3C 60 97 7D 01/21 07:31:31 RFSS Status Broadcast - SysID: 3B9 Status: Connected Zone: 1 Site: 4 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
B0 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA D6 ED 1C 01/21 07:31:31 Phase II Sync Broadcast - Unknown Format at this time
B0 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA D6 ED 1C 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=30 Mfg 00(Standard)
39 00 01 04 28 9C 04 28 5C 04 8A 54 01/21 07:31:31 Alternate Control Broadcast - Channel 1: 2-2204(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only Channel 2: 2-2140(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only
09 90 08 C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 5E 72 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=09 Mfg 90(Motorola) Binary Value: 00001000 11000000
BB 00 00 BE E0 03 B9 28 3C 60 E9 5D 01/21 07:31:31 Network Status Broadcast - WACN: BEE00 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
05 90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D1 C3 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=05 Mfg 90(Motorola)
3C 00 00 33 B9 01 03 27 97 70 4A 6B 01/21 07:31:31 Neighbor Status Broadcast - SysID: 3b9 Zone: 1 Site: 3 Control: 2-1943(0.00000) Status: Connected Cap: Data,Voice,Registration
BA 00 00 33 B9 01 04 28 3C 60 73 49 01/21 07:31:31 RFSS Status Broadcast - SysID: 3B9 Status: Connected Zone: 1 Site: 4 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
30 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA F4 0D 08 01/21 07:31:31 Phase II Sync Broadcast - Unknown Format at this time
30 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BA F4 0D 08 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=30 Mfg 00(Standard)
39 00 01 04 28 9C 04 28 5C 04 8A 54 01/21 07:31:31 Alternate Control Broadcast - Channel 1: 2-2204(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only Channel 2: 2-2140(0.00000) Cap: Backup control channel only
89 90 08 C0 00 00 00 00 00 00 BA 46 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=09 Mfg 90(Motorola) Binary Value: 00001000 11000000
3B 00 00 BE E0 03 B9 28 3C 60 0D 69 01/21 07:31:31 Network Status Broadcast - WACN: BEE00 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
05 90 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 D1 C3 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=05 Mfg 90(Motorola)
BC 00 00 33 B9 01 02 28 3C 70 35 5E 01/21 07:31:31 Neighbor Status Broadcast - SysID: 3b9 Zone: 1 Site: 2 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Status: Connected Cap: Data,Voice,Registration
09 90 05 00 00 00 00 00 00 00 7E 03 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=09 Mfg 90(Motorola) Binary Value: 00000101 00000000
3A 00 00 33 B9 01 04 28 3C 60 97 7D 01/21 07:31:31 RFSS Status Broadcast - SysID: 3B9 Status: Connected Zone: 1 Site: 4 Control: 2-2108(0.00000) Cap: Voice,Registration
B0 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BB 08 F4 9E 01/21 07:31:31 Phase II Sync Broadcast - Unknown Format at this time
B0 00 00 00 6A 16 35 73 BB 08 F4 9E 01/21 07:31:31 Unknown Op=30 Mfg 00(Standard)

 

[GlacierClipper]

Thanks for the input on this 408.8375. I will keep watching it in a search with control channel feature on and do a "hurry up and wait", maybe something will happen.

 

[rickak]

Thanks for the input on this 408.8375. I will keep watching it in a search with control channel feature on and do a "hurry up and wait", maybe something will happen.

If its a phase 2 TDMA system, no scanner will track it..

Rick

 

[rckydenver]

If its a phase 2 TDMA system, no scanner will track it..

Rick

Not to get to much of topic here from the OP, but i thought i read somewhere that we where suppose to switch over to this Phase 2 by 2013 or 2014. (The future of P25 radios). Start saving my nickles and dimes.

 

[rickak]

Not to get to much of topic here from the OP, but i thought i read somewhere that we where suppose to switch over to this Phase 2 by 2013 or 2014. (The future of P25 radios). Start saving my nickles and dimes.

You mean the state system? I have noticed TDMA sync packets on some sites around here. That may be an indication...

Rick

 

[rckydenver]

Yeah the State, found this doing a websearch.

The FCC originally proposed a requirement for all radios to operate on 6.25 kHz channels by 2018 with 25 kHz operation phased out by 2013. By FCC mandate, all radios built in the USA must be capable of operating at 6.25 kHz after January 1, 2011. The P25 standard incorporates this provision as Phase II.

Taking from this web page.

APCO Project 25 Information page

 

[rickak]

Yeah the State, found this doing a websearch.

The FCC originally proposed a requirement for all radios to operate on 6.25 kHz channels by 2018 with 25 kHz operation phased out by 2013. By FCC mandate, all radios built in the USA must be capable of operating at 6.25 kHz after January 1, 2011. The P25 standard incorporates this provision as Phase II.

Taking from this web page.

APCO Project 25 Information page

mmmm, more pork for moneyrola to dine upon

 

[GlacierClipper]

Frequency 410.0375 is active at times, this frequency might be associated with the 408.8375 control channel. On 410.0375, there is activity from time to time concerning gate security. When using a control channel search only using a Uniden 996XT, there is a talkgroup that flashes from time to time and that talkgroup is 400.

 

[ecanderson]

408.8375 and 410.0375 are both heard elsewhere in the western U.S. as used by the NNSA. That group used to operate in the St. Vrain facility, but the last of the fuel was shipped out in June of 1992, so it's hard to imagine what they'd be doing out there now, or anywhere else in the neighborhood, for that matter.

 

[jeffreyinberthoud]

I tried that freq both from berthoud and windsor I was unable to hear anything

 

[rickak]

gave it a shot again in pro96com today. Looks a bit more interesting, has some neighbors now:


FileVersion:6
-TowerInfo
#This section is here for information only. With the exception
#of the Call Sign(s), This data is not Read back into the program at all.
System ID : 3B9
System Name :
WACN : BEE00
Tower Number (Decimal): 104
Tower Number (Hex) : T0104
Tower Description : (null)
Control Capabilities : Voice,Registration
Call Sign(s) :
Timestamp : Mon Mar 14 16:10:36 2011

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth,Slots
00,851.00625,0.00625,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1
01,762.00625,0.00625,30.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1
02,382.48750,0.01250,9.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1

-Frequencies
#Format: Channel,Usage,Frequency(/Slot),Input Frequency(/Slot),Hit Count
"00-0107","v",851.67500,806.67500,1
"00-0437","c",853.73750,808.73750,0
"02-2108","c",408.83750,417.83750,0
"02-2140","a",409.23750,418.23750,0
"02-2204","a",410.03750,419.03750,0

-Neighbors
#Format: TowerID,TowerIDHex,System ID,Channel,Frequency,Tower Name
101,"T0101",3b9,"02-1890",406.11250,""
102,"T0102",3b9,"02-2108",408.83750,""
103,"T0103",3b9,"02-1943",406.77500,""

 

[ecanderson]

The additional freqs finally answer the question, I think.

Northern Colorado Radio Communications Network
810 East 5th Street
LOVELAND, CO 80537

Look here -> http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1301868

CARA (the parent company) runs this system - which someone spotted as the outfit that serves the radio needs of the Supershuttle bus system up north, too.

 

[GrayJeep]

CARA (the parent company) runs this system - which someone spotted as the outfit that serves the radio needs of the Supershuttle bus system up north, too.

I made the SuperShuttle catch down south.

CARA is a radio services provider. So just about anything could show up on this system.
I'll be monitoring it when I'm home to see what turns up.

 

[Spud]

Link not correct

The 408 MHz system may be CARA but the posted link is for the CO DTRS system (D1C).
(The Northern Colorado Radio Communications Network is not CARA.)

Also, the digital signature of the 406.77500 is not one of a P25 system.
Strange that it is tied to the 408.8375 system.

Spud

 

[ecanderson]

The 408 MHz system may be CARA but the posted link is for the CO DTRS system (D1C).
(The Northern Colorado Radio Communications Network is not CARA.)

CARA is the contact. What I've found in these listings is that the "licensee" can be whatever local organization/company/LLC/whatever they want to use for the name, but that to look behind that to see who's in charge of it, you often have to look at the contact. I was as surprised to see CARA there again as anyone.

It would be interesting if the FCC would allow a search on the "Contact" field in addition to the existing search for "Licensee". I wonder how many places the CARA name would pop up?

 

[GlacierClipper]

gave it a shot again in pro96com today. Looks a bit more interesting, has some neighbors now:

Thankf for the input and hard work rickak. This will help make things more interesting.

 

[mpg0515]

Looks to me like Rick may have been logging the PVH DTRS Site and when switched to the 408.8375 CC, Pro96Com was not completely cleared out. Look below, you will see two CC's in the "frequencies" portion of the log. 853.7375 is the CC for the DTRS PVH site.

There is no way that I am aware of to look up frequencies in the FCC database that are federal, or at least in the federal portion of the bands. 400Mhz to 420Mhz is all federal government use. Unless there is something that I am missing

gave it a shot again in pro96com today. Looks a bit more interesting, has some neighbors now:


FileVersion:6
-TowerInfo
#This section is here for information only. With the exception
#of the Call Sign(s), This data is not Read back into the program at all.
System ID : 3B9
System Name :
WACN : BEE00
Tower Number (Decimal): 104
Tower Number (Hex) : T0104
Tower Description : (null)
Control Capabilities : Voice,Registration
Call Sign(s) :
Timestamp : Mon Mar 14 16:10:36 2011

-Tables
#Format: Table ID,Base Freq,Spacing,Input Offset,Assumed/Confirmed,BandWidth,Slots
00,851.00625,0.00625,-45.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1
01,762.00625,0.00625,30.00000,"Confirmed",0.00625,1
02,382.48750,0.01250,9.00000,"Confirmed",0.01250,1

-Frequencies
#Format: Channel,Usage,Frequency(/Slot),Input Frequency(/Slot),Hit Count
"00-0107","v",851.67500,806.67500,1
"00-0437","c",853.73750,808.73750,0
"02-2108","c",408.83750,417.83750,0
"02-2140","a",409.23750,418.23750,0
"02-2204","a",410.03750,419.03750,0

-Neighbors
#Format: TowerID,TowerIDHex,System ID,Channel,Frequency,Tower Name
101,"T0101",3b9,"02-1890",406.11250,""
102,"T0102",3b9,"02-2108",408.83750,""
103,"T0103",3b9,"02-1943",406.77500,""

 

[mpg0515]

Look at the frequencies in your FCC query. They are all 800Mhz DTRS voice and CC frequencies. See the above post. None match the 408Mhz frequencies and they would not show up in the FCC database either.

CARA is the contact. What I've found in these listings is that the "licensee" can be whatever local organization/company/LLC/whatever they want to use for the name, but that to look behind that to see who's in charge of it, you often have to look at the contact. I was as surprised to see CARA there again as anyone.

It would be interesting if the FCC would allow a search on the "Contact" field in addition to the existing search for "Licensee". I wonder how many places the CARA name would pop up?