SDS100/SDS200: 436 or SDS100; Tough Choice

[BDavis27707]

I am looking to get either a BCD456HP or a SDS100. I am new to scanners, but not radio. Have been DXing AM broadcast band and listing to shortwave radio here in North Carolina for many years. Also am familiar with programming languages, using databases etc. for work as a Mechanical Engineer. So, I have the technical aptitude to learn how to use one of the units, and to enjoy learning about its operation. Most of my listening will be from home, but also some on the road and at camping sites that I like to go to. I vacillate between the two units. Would a 486 serve me as well as a SDS100, or should I just spend the extra for the SDS knowing that I can install added features as time goes on that perhaps are not offered for the 456. The zip code feature is a real plus to me, as I can get either unit operating immediately while learning finer points of tuning the unit over time. I am looking forward to any advice you can offer and it will be greatly appreciated.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

Assuming your primary systems of interest are here and possibly here, the 436HP would do just fine as none of the sites are reported to be simulcast. As is discussed on so many other threads on this forum, the SDS100 has the definite advantage over the 436HP on systems with simulcast cells. This page offers a pretty nice side by side comparison. Lastly, (though it doesn't affect either of your potential systems of interest) have a read here regarding simulcast distortion & best wishes on whichever you decide to get.

 

[hiegtx]

Assuming your primary systems of interest are here and possibly here, the 436HP would do just fine as none of the sites are reported to be simulcast. As is discussed on so many other threads on this forum, the SDS100 has the definite advantage over the 436HP on systems with simulcast cells. This page offers a pretty nice side by side comparison. Lastly, have a read here regarding simulcast distortion & best wishes on whichever you decide to get.

The VIPER sites for Durham are not simulcast.

The Durham Prime site on the Durham-Fayetteville system is not flagged as Simulcast in the database, but a look at the site's tower map indicates otherwise:

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site Details

www.radioreference.com

I am looking to get either a BCD456HP or a SDS100. I am new to scanners, but not radio. Have been DXing AM broadcast band and listing to shortwave radio here in North Carolina for many years. Also am familiar with programming languages, using databases etc. for work as a Mechanical Engineer. So, I have the technical aptitude to learn how to use one of the units, and to enjoy learning about its operation. Most of my listening will be from home, but also some on the road and at camping sites that I like to go to. I vacillate between the two units. Would a 486 serve me as well as a SDS100, or should I just spend the extra for the SDS knowing that I can install added features as time goes on that perhaps are not offered for the 456. The zip code feature is a real plus to me, as I can get either unit operating immediately while learning finer points of tuning the unit over time. I am looking forward to any advice you can offer and it will be greatly appreciated.

Whether or not the 436HP would have problems is very dependent on your location. If you are very close to one tower site, it's strong signal may wash out conflicting signals from the other sites. But if you are not at an advantageous location, the the SDS100 would be the better choice. Also, if you intend to also get a GPS, and possibly use your scanner on trips to other areas, if you are going to, or through, another major metro area, you are almost sure to encounter simulcast along the way.
Simulcast digital distortion - The RadioReference Wiki

 

[BDavis27707]

First, I erred calling the 436 a 456. I would have edited the thread, but seems that option is not available.

Hiegtx, how can you tell from the map that the towers are simulcast? I suppose it is because there are four of them...
Btw, I live down near the most southern tower. If this is the case, then it seems the SDS100 might be a better performer.

I likely would get add a GPS at some point.

 

[fredva]

Assuming your primary systems of interest are here and possibly here, the 436HP would do just fine as none of the sites are reported to be simulcast. As is discussed on so many other threads on this forum, the SDS100 has the definite advantage over the 436HP on systems with simulcast cells. This page offers a pretty nice side by side comparison. Lastly, (though it doesn't affect either of your potential systems of interest) have a read here regarding simulcast distortion & best wishes on whichever you decide to get.

How are you determining that "none of the sites are reported to be simulcast?" What exactly are you looking at that tells you "no simulcast"?

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

How are you determining that "none of the sites are reported to be simulcast?" What exactly are you looking at that tells you "no simulcast"?

Typically the word "... Simulcast" is appended at the end of the site name if you look at any particular system's DB listing. Two sites on VIPER are listed as such (sites 45 & 53). Yes I realize certain exceptions exist and there could possibly be more. To know for sure, click on the site name and then the callsign(s) under FCC License. If more than one site appears on the map with the same frequencies listed then this indicates a simulcast group. Also the use of TDMA talkgroups may be another indicator

 

[BDavis27707]

These four towers transmit at the same frequency, so Simulcast, yes?

 

[hiegtx]

First, I erred calling the 436 a 456. I would have edited the thread, but seems that option is not available.

Hiegtx, how can you tell from the map that the towers are simulcast? I suppose it is because there are four of them...
Btw, I live down near the most southern tower. If this is the case, then it seems the SDS100 might be a better performer.

I likely would get add a GPS at some point.

BDavis, click on the link I included for the site details.

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site Details

www.radioreference.com

Now, on that page, click on the FCC license you see:

FCC Callsign WPGD687 (CITY OF DURHAM, TRUNKED)

FCC Callsign WPGD687 (CITY OF DURHAM, TRUNKED)

www.radioreference.com

When you look at the page for the license, you see four sites listed.
If you drop down to the details for the frequencies, you'll see that each of the four tower sites have the same set of frequencies.
That's locations 1, 3, 4, & 7. (Sites 2 & 5 are inputs for the repeaters on the other sites. Site 2 is a fixed site, site 7 is for the mobile units accessing the sites.) (If each of those four sites on the frequency had different sets of frequencies, then there should have been four sites listed instead of just "Durham Prime".)

So, sites 1, 3, 4, and 7 are transmitting on the same set of frequencies, making it a simulcast site. If you were very close to that southern tower (a quarter mile or less), it's strong signal might negate issues, Or maybe not. No way to tell just by looking. Simulcast is so location related that for some people, moving the scanner a few feet one way or the other in their house (closer to a window, away from the window, or to a different room) may make a noticeable difference. You might ask that your thread be moved down to your state's forum, so that hopefully someone in your county could tell you what does, or does not, work for them. If you decide to at least try a 436HP, then purchase from a dealer that does not penalize you with a large restocking fee if it does not work, and you need to opt for the SDS100 instead.

 

[trentbob]

Could be a matter of some minor housekeeping. I agree with hiegtx. Too little information from actual users...JMC could be right on the money. I realize this is a useless post as I'm in the middle of the road LOL but I can't help myself.

 

[mr10pt]

When you stated GPS, I believe you answered your own question. By your original post you appear to have the knowledge to easily learn and operate either of these scanners. You can download (for free) Sentinel software, make favorite lists and play with it long before you purchase your scanner providing you have a Windows computer. Some people are naturals, I am not. Point is, there's a huge learning curve for these radio's but don't panic. RR is a very good support system that helps everyone. Plenty of answered questions can be found searching the database. Final answer: SDS100.

 

[fredva]

Typically the word "... Simulcast" is appended at the end of the site name if you look at any particular system's DB listing. Two sites on VIPER are listed as such (sites 45 & 53). Yes I realize certain exceptions exist and there could possibly be more. To know for sure, click on the site name and then the callsign(s) under FCC License. If more than one site appears on the map with the same frequencies listed then this indicates a simulcast group. Also the use of TDMA talkgroups may be another indicator

The word "simulcast" isn't always included in the RadioReference listing. To know for sure if simulcast is a factor or not, you have to use the method outlined by Hiegtx. It requires a few more steps, but it's more likely to give an accurate answer on the use of simulcast.

 

[KK4JUG]

Durham's simulcast status notwithstanding, I'd get the SDS100. It will safely pick up everything you're entitled to listen to. If you travel and use a GPS, it works amazingly well.

 

[BDavis27707]

Mr10pt, Thanks for the suggestion to download Sentinel before I buy. I can now see how to make favorite lists and why it is advantageous to do so.

Heigtx, I have learned from your threads how to better read the tower maps and what their data convey. I did not know until now that Durham County uses Simulcast.

I see that Sentinel allows you to do customize some of the of the radio programming data, filters, display, etc on your PC and then upload the set-up to the radio. I have been reading bout the "Filters" on the radio. Don't know much about them yet, but are they all accessible through Sentinel?

Looks like these radio scanners can also monitor Citizens Band Frequencies. Will they monitor the SSB that is available on those frequencies?

Sorry that my questions are so elementary.

Thanks!

 

[fredva]

I live in an area with two simulcast systems. I sold my 436HP and got an SDS-100. I have not regretted that decision.

 

[hexagon_keyhole]

Why not get both?

I do live in a Simulcast system area, and lucky enough to use my BCD436HP while at home. But when I am driving in certain parts of the city the BCD436HP goes silent. I picked up the SDS100, and enjoy using it when roaming around town. The BCD436HP still gets use at home, but it also is on duty for a few analog systems that are near by.

 

[doctordialtone]

Will they monitor the SSB that is available on those frequencies?

No

 

[hiegtx]

Mr10pt, Thanks for the suggestion to download Sentinel before I buy. I can now see how to make favorite lists and why it is advantageous to do so.

Heigtx, I have learned from your threads how to better read the tower maps and what their data convey. I did not know until now that Durham County uses Simulcast.

I see that Sentinel allows you to do customize some of the of the radio programming data, filters, display, etc on your PC and then upload the set-up to the radio. I have been reading bout the "Filters" on the radio. Don't know much about them yet, but are they all accessible through Sentinel?

Looks like these radio scanners can also monitor Citizens Band Frequencies. Will they monitor the SSB that is available on those frequencies?

Sorry that my questions are so elementary.

Thanks!

You can set the filters in Sentinel, selecting something for the Global setting via the Miscellaneous tab in your profile. You can also use the Favorites editor to select which filter to use on a specific for a given Department (conventional channels) or the site on a trunked system.

But to find which filter works best, you need to experiment with that on the scanner itself. You can change the filter for a department or site, then go back to scanning to see if your reception has improved, either better clarity, of a lower error level. Once you find what works best, either read the scanner back into Senitnel to save your results, or make yourself a note to adjust the filters the next time you are editing a list. If you find a better setting, on the scanner, but do not either read the scanner back into Sentinel, or edit Sentinel to match, the next time you write an update to the scanner from your PC, your 'better' setting will be overwritten.

Ideally, you would be able to use the Auto setting & have the scanner figure out what is best, then capture that setting for use. But the scanner does not save what Auto found, and will try to run through the various filters every time the scanner passes through that system. That's something that I would like to see done in a firmware update, but those are few & far between since UPMan's passing a year ago.

 

[BDavis27707]

For some reason I cannot figure out how to get back to the tower site map for Durham County, NC. Can someone help me out please?

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site Details

www.radioreference.com

 

[fredva]

For some reason I cannot figure out how to get back to the tower site map for Durham County, NC. Can someone help me out please?

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site

Durham-Fayetteville Site: Durham Prime Site Details

www.radioreference.com

Appears to be some kind of a problem on the web site - either a bug, or somebody has changed something related to the FCC license. You are supposed to be able to click on the FCC license and see the map. But that now tells me the callsign is not found.

Maybe an admin will see this and offer an explanation?

 

[BDavis27707]

Well, at least it wasn't my memory failing me.