449.92 / 146.52 xband

[KG6GTH]

Someone locally has a Crossband Remote on 449.920 RX PL100.0 to 146.52 Simplex.. anyone know the Input and Input PL/DPL/Etc...?? Would be nice to extend my range from the SCV....

I keyed up some repeater 449.92 rx pl100 444.92 tx dpl172 but it is not it...

73's

 

[kj6psg]

It's on a high level site (Lukens, I think) and, to my knowledge, has no input. It's a fun box to listen to during Field Day. The callsign is K6DLP. They operate a network of private repeaters on some other sites and frequencies as well.

Even if we did know the input, if it has one, we wouldn't be able to disclose its access info since FCC rules require remote bases to be private. Besides, it's not ours.

 

[nd5y]

, we wouldn't be able to disclose its access info since FCC rules require remote bases to be private.

Show me the Part 97 rule that states this.

 

[dcr_inc]

Where is ANYTHING in part 97 "Private"?

 

[ka3aaa]

5 mgh is the typical offset for UHF.

 

[prcguy]

I believe crossbanding to 146.52 in So Cal is against TASMA (two meter spectrum management) rules. There are specific freqs set aside for this and it wreaks .52 simplex for those that want to use it for its intended purpose.

 

[vagrant]

Crossbanding using 146.52 is just bad. A fellow ham was around 7000' in the Sierra Nevada calling CQ and we we made contact on 146.52, as one does. Well, some joker setup a crossband repeater on 146.520 without a RX tone and it would transmit into a very busy repeater covering Bakersfield north up to Fresno and more. To make matters worse, another idiot in that Bakersfield repeater footprint started giving the guy at 7000' a bad time. He explained he was on 146.52 and we figured out someone was crossbanding as I could hear him on that repeater. The guy at 7000' and I moved to another simplex freq and the complaining idiot followed us and began to interfere with our conversation.

There should be a tear off addendum for a license test taker with some rule of thumb points they could keep in their wallet.

 

[bill4long]

Where is ANYTHING in part 97 "Private"?

The only thing that comes close is 97.205(e): Limiting the use of a repeater to only certain user stations is permissible.

But this is a far cry from "private", since anyone may listen.

 

[bill4long]

Crossbanding using 146.52 is just bad.

Um, well, it depends on what's being done.

A fellow ham was around 7000' in the Sierra Nevada calling CQ and we we made contact on 146.52, as one does. Well, some joker setup a crossband repeater on 146.520 without a RX tone and it would transmit into a very busy repeater covering Bakersfield north up to Fresno and more.

Yeah, that's dumb.

To make matters worse, another idiot in that Bakersfield repeater footprint started giving the guy at 7000' a bad time. He explained he was on 146.52 and we figured out someone was crossbanding as I could hear him on that repeater. The guy at 7000' and I moved to another simplex freq and the complaining idiot followed us and began to interfere with our conversation.

Yep. Dumb.

I have a UHF repeater that I can use to cross-band on 2 meter simplex, and I often use my repeater to extend my range on 52. Walking around the yard or neighborhood with an HT and ragchewing on 52 via my repeater is quite handy. No issues at all. No reason why there would be. I don't leave it cross-banding all the time. Only when I actually want to talk on 52 and want a range extender. A lot of people around here cross-band from 70cm simplex to 52 simplex. No issues and very useful.

 

[kj6psg]

The only thing that comes close is 97.205(e): Limiting the use of a repeater to only certain user stations is permissible.

But this is a far cry from "private", since anyone may listen.

Remember that this isn't a repeater, but an auxiliary station. It is allowed to operate in a unidirectional fashion with no input per 97.201(e). If it does have an input, which I'm pretty sure it doesn't, it becomes a telecommanded remote base and the 440 MHz pair is an auxiliary station used for telecommand. Such control links need to be protected from unauthorized operation per 97.213(c), and openly publishing access information for the control link would be negligence in preventing unauthorized access.

 

[bill4long]

Remember that this isn't a repeater, but an auxiliary station. It is allowed to operate in a unidirectional fashion with no input per 97.201(e). If it does have an input, which I'm pretty sure it doesn't, it becomes a telecommanded remote base and the 440 MHz pair is an auxiliary station used for telecommand. Such control links need to be protected from unauthorized operation per 97.213(c), and openly publishing access information for the control link would be negligence in preventing unauthorized access.

97.213(c) applies to all remote controlled stations including regular repeaters. Not openly publishing one's control frequency might be a part of that, but not necessarily. The statement, "we wouldn't be able to disclose its access info since FCC rules require remote bases to be private" is simply not factual. 97.213(c) only specifies that remote controlled stations, of any type, are "protected", but it doesn't specify exactly how this must be done.

 

[kj6psg]

97.213(c) applies to all remote controlled stations including regular repeaters. Not openly publishing one's control frequency might be a part of that, but not necessarily. The statement, "we wouldn't be able to disclose its access info since FCC rules require remote bases to be private" is simply not factual. 97.213(c) only specifies that remote controlled stations, of any type, are "protected", but it doesn't specify exactly how this must be done.

Repeaters aren't remotely controlled, they're automatically controlled. That's covered under a different section, 97.205.

 

[prcguy]

If you live in an area with very few users of simplex frequencies, that's great. In So Cal its very congested and we have rules to follow here. Read page 2 of this link and specifically items 6 through 9. You are not supposed to clog up designated simplex frequencies with cross band repeaters or remote links, at least in these here parts of the country. There are a few offbeat freqs that are authorized for that purpose.

Here is a specific statement regarding operating a dual band radio as a cross band repeater:

"CROSS-BAND REPEATER FREQUENCY 144.910 and 147.525 MHz are available on a shared non-protected basis as an input/output for cross-band repeaters (i.e. dual-band mobile radios). Use of selective access such as CTCSS or DCS is mandatory. Stations should follow guidelines for proper operation detailed on page 2. Operation must be limited to no more than 72 hours total per month."

http://www.tasma.org/TASMA-2m-Band-Plan.pdf

Um, well, it depends on what's being done.



Yeah, that's dumb.



Yep. Dumb.

I have a UHF repeater that I can use to cross-band on 2 meter simplex, and I often use my repeater to extend my range on 52. Walking around the yard or neighborhood with an HT and ragchewing on 52 via my repeater is quite handy. No issues at all. No reason why there would be. I don't leave it cross-banding all the time. Only when I actually want to talk on 52 and want a range extender. A lot of people around here cross-band from 70cm simplex to 52 simplex. No issues and very useful.

 

[bill4long]

Repeaters aren't remotely controlled, they're automatically controlled. That's covered under a different section, 97.205.

Repeaters under normal operation are automatically controlled; a control operator need not be at a control point. Normally a repeater is not being controlled remotely. (Which is what the "tele" in "telecommand" means. 97.3(44)) But when a repeater is being controlled remotely, such as when a control operator is actually controlling it by issuing telecommands, 97.213 applies to control with telecommands. The rules covering the automatic control repeaters and the remote control of all stations are not mutually exclusive. 97.213 pertains to remote control of any station by telecommand and has nothing to do with the automatic control of a station.

 

[kj6psg]

But it's not a repeater that's being controlled remotely. In the case where a simplex transceiver is directly interfaced to a UHF repeater configured as an auxiliary station, which the 449.92 MHz system originally being discussed is not, that would be a cut-and-dried case of a remote base. Regardless of whether the UHF auxiliary station is repeating traffic from its input, the VHF side would not be functioning as a repeater (nor does it explicitly have to be on VHF; consider a HF remote being connected to a UHF auxiliary station) and it will be commanded remotely by operating the auxiliary station. 97.213(c) would be in effect in that case. And also, in the case of a HF remote station connected to a UHF auxiliary station, the reasoning for station use authorization is hopefully obvious.

For automatically controlled repeater stations, "ancillary functions" being utilized by operators transmitting on the repeater's input don't constitute remote control of the station, and therefore don't impose remote control restrictions; see 97.205(e).

 

[bill4long]

But it's not a repeater that's being controlled remotely. In the case where a simplex transceiver is directly interfaced to a UHF repeater configured as an auxiliary station, which the 449.92 MHz system originally being discussed is not, that would be a cut-and-dried case of a remote base. Regardless of whether the UHF auxiliary station is repeating traffic from its input, the VHF side would not be functioning as a repeater (nor does it explicitly have to be on VHF; consider a HF remote being connected to a UHF auxiliary station) and it will be commanded remotely by operating the auxiliary station. 97.213(c) would be in effect in that case. And also, in the case of a HF remote station connected to a UHF auxiliary station, the reasoning for station use authorization is hopefully obvious.

None of this (if I understand correctly your rather word-saladly paragraph) changes anything I said. Any station controlled by the control operator with telecommands that are intended as control operations are governed by 97.213.

For automatically controlled repeater stations, "ancillary functions" being utilized by operators transmitting on the repeater's input don't constitute remote control of the station, and therefore don't impose remote control restrictions; see 97.205(e).

It's more specific than that. "Ancillary functions of a repeater that are available to users on the input channel are not considered remotely controlled functions of the station." However, telecommands by a control operator intended for control operations are covered by 97.213 because they are neither "ancillary functions" nor "available to users." Hope that helps.