462.725 MHz DMR Repeater Calgary

VE6RSU2

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I have logged a strange DMR repeater in the downtown area of Calgary. 462.725 MHz with inputs 467.725 MHz. I have logged it sporadically since the stampede in July of this year. Color Code 11, time slot 1 not sure of TG yet, but it is encrypted. Can't find a listing on TAFL that fits.

Any ideas? Strange for unlicensed users to be brave enough to use a repeater? or could this be some governmental activity?
 

kayn1n32008

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ISED licensed a DMR repeater on a GMRS channel in Strathcona County recently. I believe it was to Enbridge or Shell. Can’t remember.
 

robertmac

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TAFL shows 426.725 licensed in Two Hills. However, have noted various FRS/GMRS frequencies with digital transmissions. Most frequently near the airport. Have noticed a number of construction outfits using FRS/GMRS and wouldn't surprise me that they would use digital as well. Some construction [largely crane operators] were using amateur frequencies in the 2 m band earlier this spring. These were heard on repeaters and simplex. But it is a real pain when the digital crap appears on frequencies generally for FM emissions.
 

kayn1n32008

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But it is a real pain when the digital crap appears on frequencies generally for FM emissions.
I’ll take digital all day long over analogue. No static, better range, better audio quality in weak signal conditions, and modern DSP, AGC and audio shaping make for a much much more pleasant experience using radio.
 

Jay911

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I’ll take digital all day long over analogue. No static, better range, better audio quality in weak signal conditions, and modern DSP, AGC and audio shaping make for a much much more pleasant experience using radio.
I just supported a transition of an existing analog agency into digital (same radio system, just moving to new P25 strapped TGs). The audio on >95% of the transmissions sounds so much better to me. There are one or two transmissions where background noise and/or signal strength is causing the spoken audio to be garbled or distorted, but they are the outliers by far.

When I first brought AFRRCS to my Redwood crews, they were astounded at the audio quality compared to analog. The only reason I don't have more buy-in from those crews yet is the issue of not having adequate coverage in our district (and that will be changing this fall).
 

Jay911

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I have logged a strange DMR repeater in the downtown area of Calgary. 462.725 MHz with inputs 467.725 MHz. I have logged it sporadically since the stampede in July of this year. Color Code 11, time slot 1 not sure of TG yet, but it is encrypted. Can't find a listing on TAFL that fits.

Any ideas? Strange for unlicensed users to be brave enough to use a repeater? or could this be some governmental activity?
One thought - could be an extreme narrowband freq, seen them lately (i.e. 462.72625 or something). But my search of Spectrum Direct from 462.7 to 462.8 within Calgary yielded zero results same as you.
 

beeperboy

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When I first brought AFRRCS to my Redwood crews, they were astounded at the audio quality compared to analog. The only reason I don't have more buy-in from those crews yet is the issue of not having adequate coverage in our district (and that will be changing this fall).
Are they building a new site close to Redwood? Man, that was a huge oversight.
 

kayn1n32008

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I just supported a transition of an existing analog agency into digital (same radio system, just moving to new P25 strapped TGs). The audio on >95% of the transmissions sounds so much better to me. There are one or two transmissions where background noise and/or signal strength is causing the spoken audio to be garbled or distorted, but they are the outliers by far.

When I first brought AFRRCS to my Redwood crews, they were astounded at the audio quality compared to analog. The only reason I don't have more buy-in from those crews yet is the issue of not having adequate coverage in our district (and that will be changing this fall).
My exposure to digital was DMR at a former clients facility. Going from audio all over the place, with no amplitude consistency, to having zero static and not constantly having to change the volume level sealed the deal.

P25 has excellent audio quality when using actual P25 subscriber equipment. Modern DSP and active noise suppression make all the difference in the world.

There are one or two transmissions where background noise and/or signal strength is causing the spoken audio to be garbled or distorted, but they are the outliers by far.
Nice thing with digital is that at the point digitial audio cant be recovered, an analogue signal of the same strength would be completely unreadable.
 

Jay911

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Nice thing with digital is that at the point digitial audio cant be recovered, an analogue signal of the same strength would be completely unreadable.
Agreed, the number of people who I have worked with in the past year or two who were dumbfounded by getting good decode/receive when "I've only got one bar" or (Moto) RSSI in the 30-50s is high.
 

kayn1n32008

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Agreed, the number of people who I have worked with in the past year or two who were dumbfounded by getting good decode/receive when "I've only got one bar" or (Moto) RSSI in the 30-50s is high.
My former clients system was still being built last time I used it. I was amazed at how well the radio would decode with zero bars. Only the Rx LED coming on.

I find that it’s OF hammys and people using scanners that tend to whine about digital voice the most. Those of us that use it, ham or LMR tend to like it a lot more.

Plus digital voice lends itself to being easily encrypted for privacy. Big plus in my eyes.

The absolute biggest benefit to digital is not having to strain listening to static.

Once the Anytone dual band DMR radio is released and has stable firmware, my TM-V71A will likely be replaced.
 

robertmac

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The pros and cons of digital have been discussed ad nauseum and there are those that agree and those that disagree. I for one will take FM any day over what I have heard on Hytera, Kenwood and Motorola, but that is me. Getting back to digital on GMRS this has been going on in Calgary for years without any one identifying where or who is using it. Not sure if legal in Canada but reading GMRS in the USA it would appear it is illegal to use on GMRS,
 

Jay911

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The RSS and SRSP documents are not at all hard to search for if you expend the smallest of effort. Emissions are stipulated on the transmitter, not the band. "FRS devices" are limited to F1D, F2D, and F3E. "GMRS devices" are limited to a larger list including A1D, F1D, G1D, H1D, J1D, R1D, A3E, F3E, G3E, H3E, J3E, R3E and F2D. DMR is of course F7D/F7E, but it's neither "FRS devices" nor "GMRS devices" that would be using this emission, it's "Land Mobile and Fixed Equipment Operating in the Frequency Range 27.41-960 MHz". Those devices have no particular restrictions to their modes of emission, except that radios in the 768-776 MHz band must use digital modulation. So, if ISED has granted a license for someone to use 462.x in F7E (and there's no proof they haven't - the license may be protected from public view or may be otherwise escaping our searching at this time), they're well within their legal right to do so.
 

robertmac

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So sorry that I didn't "EXPEND THE SMALLEST OF EFFORT". No I did not this time as I have done this numerous times in the past only to find that information goes around in bloody circles. I do remember seeing that digital emissions were going to be allowed on Garmin Rhino radios for displaying positions, as well as on dog collars for again position reporting. And at that time, nothing to suggest using voice digital on FRS/GMRS transceivers. So, sorry if I did not expend the smallest of effort this time.
 

mciupa

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Please, focus on DMR repeaters.

Thank you!
 

VE6RSU2

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Update... Not hearing the 462.725 MHz repeater lately, but I continue to log the input (467.725 MHz) around the CP Alyth yard area of Calgary in simplex mode. Logged clear voice this morning using Color Code 8, so not the same the same user as above (CC 11, encrypted).

Details: CC 8, Slot 1, TG 399 id 301. One sided conversation sounded like construction type coms. I will keep logging and searching.
 

robertmac

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Lot of construction from that area to Highfield Blvd with the Green Line going in. Lot of construction activity at 26 Ave. and 11 St. S.E. And with experience this past spring and summer with construction cranes not caring what frequency they used, it would not surprise me that it has to do with construction.
 
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