BCD536HP: 536 or ARC536PRO Favorite Lists have a 1 MB Max file size? What?

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W4UVV

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First Is this a ARC536PRO software issue or 536 scanner issue?

According to one or the other it is true. I have a new 536 and only one Favorite List for my state which is Virginia.. Using Sentinel my profile creation and Favorite List attributes were successful. I use ARC536PRO to do updated FL files creation, editing and file writing to the 536. I use a mixture of appended 536 national and state radio systems along with my imported 996XT system files. The updated FL then is written to my 536. This is the first time I have experienced this situation.

I do frequent updated FL file transfers to the 536 and after my last "VIRGINIA FL" wrote successfully and reloaded, or so I thought. Afterwards I saw the dreaded "Nothing to scan" message. I could not understand what I had done wrong, if anything. So, I did another FL write to the 536 this time watching the files reloading process very closely. When my FL file loaded this time very briefly I saw "Max size exceeded 1 MB" or similar message display. What?

I checked the 536 owner's manual and the Butel ARC536PRO user's manual and could not find that subject item discussed or mentioned anywhere.

I then deleted several system files to reduce my FL file size to under 1 MB, confirmed the FL file size in the ARC536PRO folder and did another updated FL write to the 536. It made no difference. The same "Nothing to scan" message displayed. It took me about 2 hours troubleshooting the 536 going back to my original profile and FL creations and manually trying different menu settings in the 536. I could not find anything wrong with my ARC536PRO files.

I finally was able to do a FL transfer where at least a FL scanned. I am not sure exactly what I did but it involved 536 menu settings. But then I noticed something was not right. It 536 was scanning the first "VIRGINIA FL" baseline version and not recognizing my latest FL version. I confirmed that condition by reading the current resident FL to ARC536PRO. Sight checking the 536 menu settings again I saw "Nationwide" had been reset to "OFF". I set it to "ON" and did another updated FL write. This time my FL file update was successful.

Either Butel or Uniden needs to tell me and others what is going on? If this is a Butel ARC536PRO issue why is there a 1 MB maximum FL size and why is it not documented in the owner's manual? If it is a Uniden 536 issue I pose the same question. Where is this Favorite List 1 MB file size limitation coming from? I exceeded 1MB and had created maybe 25% of the files I want in my Favorites List.

If it is true a 1 MB FL file size maximum limitation is ridiculous and needs to be changed to a larger file size minimally 10 MB ASAP!

John

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Ghstwolf62

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First always make sure you check "Erase Favorite Lists" when updating files to scanner. Causes all sorts of problems if you don't.

Second there is a 1 mb limit but everyone has said its impossible to actually fill up that amount in favorite lists. I have something like 17 and that includes multiple instances of the full STARS DB and multiple copies of the full WV SIRN and its only a few kbs in the thing.

Not ARC related at all.

I'm not sure what you could possibly be doing to come even close to exceeding that threshold but its something, that's for sure.

I'd try the erase thing and see if your problems clear up.
 

TedRHayes

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I know the HomePatrol-1 had a 1MB limit to its FLs. Have not seen anything that says that applies to the x36HP scanners, but I would not be surprised.

I guess I would ask, why are you trying to put every thing into just one FL? I can see now real advantage. You can have as many as 100. I would find it difficult to manage all the different systems I monitor if I didn't group them into logical collections and place them in separate FLs; in fact, the majority of my FLs contain a single system. Having systems in separate FLs allows me to enable/disable different sets of systems much more conveniently. I also have a mix of FLs that use Location control, and those that don't.

Also when the scanner iterates through, it does it by system. In fact, the order is by the QuickKey assigned to each system regardless of the FL to which a system belongs (note: I believe if no QK is assigned to a system, it is scanned by the order it is added).
 

Ghstwolf62

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I know the HomePatrol-1 had a 1MB limit to its FLs. Have not seen anything that says that applies to the x36HP scanners, but I would not be surprised.

I guess I would ask, why are you trying to put every thing into just one FL? I can see now real advantage. You can have as many as 100. I would find it difficult to manage all the different systems I monitor if I didn't group them into logical collections and place them in separate FLs; in fact, the majority of my FLs contain a single system. Having systems in separate FLs allows me to enable/disable different sets of systems much more conveniently. I also have a mix of FLs that use Location control, and those that don't.

Also when the scanner iterates through, it does it by system. In fact, the order is by the QuickKey assigned to each system regardless of the FL to which a system belongs (note: I believe if no QK is assigned to a system, it is scanned by the order it is added).
Actually the 1mb thing was discussed at great length back in the beginning. People jumped on the issue panicking thinking they were limited severely on what they would be able to store etc. It was quickly proven to be more than enough. That included a number of people deliberately trying to exceed the limit who were unable to do so.
 

LIScanner101

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These scanner files are actually really small. Just going by the Pro-18, you can store the entire US Radioreference database TWICE on this scanner, and that's with a "tiny" 2GB microSD card. Not sure if that can be translated to an x36HP, but I'm sure you would be hard-pressed to fill up a 2GB card.
 

ofd8001

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If memory serves me correctly, Upman made a post some time back, saying there was a 1 MB limit on Favorites List file size. That was before the creation of Uniden sub-forums, so this post may be difficult to find.

So this is a Uniden limitation and not a Butel ARC 536 imposed limitation.

I've got a dozen or so Favorites Lists, the largest of which is 72KB. It's a trunked system with multiple sites, well over 100 talkgroups and 1,000+ Radio IDs. I won't say one would "never reach this limit" because I remember the day when a 500 channel scanner sounded like it had more capacity than could ever be used.

It sounds like you are attempting to import all of your XT system files into one Favorites List and that possibly is driving up the size of it. You can check the file size by using your Windows Explorer to navigate to the folder containing your Favorites List to confirm this.

Possibly in adding all of your XT system files, you may be exceeding other limits (Systems/Sites/Departments/Channels) and that's causing the hiccup.

I'd suggest consideration be given several Favorites Lists to over come any size limitations.
 

fxdscon

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First Is this a ARC536PRO software issue or 536 scanner issue?

According to one or the other it is true. I have a new 536 and only one Favorite List for my state which is Virginia.. Using Sentinel my profile creation and Favorite List attributes were successful. I use ARC536PRO to do updated FL files creation, editing and file writing to the 536. I use a mixture of appended 536 national and state radio systems along with my imported 996XT system files. The updated FL then is written to my 536. This is the first time I have experienced this situation...................

Not sure what you might be doing wrong, but the database file in the scanner that contains every scannable item in the ENTIRE state of Virginia is only 832 KB in size.

.
 

W4UVV

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2 very valid reasons I have which exceed a 1 MB FL size limitation

First always make sure you check "Erase Favorite Lists" when updating files to scanner. Causes all sorts of problems if you don't.

Second there is a 1 mb limit but everyone has said its impossible to actually fill up that amount in favorite lists. I have something like 17 and that includes multiple instances of the full STARS DB and multiple copies of the full WV SIRN and its only a few kbs in the thing.

Not ARC related at all.

I'm not sure what you could possibly be doing to come even close to exceeding that threshold but its something, that's for sure.

I'd try the erase thing and see if your problems clear up.
Tnx for your response. I never had the Home Patrol model 1 and know almost nothing about its uniques. nor should I have to. I have the Uniden 536 model and that is my frame of reference and documentation. Any Home Patrol pertinent documentation impacting the 536 should be incorporated in the 536 Owner's Manual. Not every 536 user fits the "cookie cutter" "one size fits all" for all users. Just because you have 17 favorites lists does not mean I want to have 17 favorites lists. If I use my 536 mobile I do not want to be dealing with manually selecting/deselecting FL system level quick keys although I do have FL 1 assigned to my FL. Later I was planning on creating another FL for Tennessee with FL 2 assigned. That is my personal preference and should be respected as I respect your preferences.

I did the appropriate FL erasures. "Second there is a 1 mb limit but everyone has said its impossible to actually fill up that amount in favorite lists".....Obviously I unknowingly proved it is not impossible but in fact very possible. Here is what happened. For the unfamiliar STARS is the Virginia statewide P25 Phase 1 radio system. STARS as I appended in Sentinel from the state level is lacking in numbers of talkgroups. So I imported my STARS talkgroup 996XLT files which contain significantly more and did custom editing. STARS did work as programed on the 536. However that radio system lists ALL the STARS Divisions, sites and talkgroups as one which is fine if you want that configuration. I did not. Again my personal preference.

But the main problem for me is the 536 display when a talkgroup "hit" occurs. I will try to explain. I have 4 tower mounted mast mounted RF pre-amped Scantennas at about 110 ft. I have an excellent ground wave coverage. Using my 996XT when a STARS talkgroup "hit" occurs within a particular Division, three of which I can hear certain sites, my 996XT alternates between displaying the radio system id and the site id. I noticed the 536 does not have that same same display process on a STARS talkgroup "hit". When scanning a STARS Division the sites do display but not when there is a talkgroup "hit". I need to know what particular STARS Division site level I am hearing when at talkgroup "hit" occurs.

For example, the 536 displays "STARS DIV 1" which contains 8 sites but it does not display which one of the 8 sites I am hearing. I have confirmed the 536 is more RF input sensitive than the 996XT. That means I can hear more distant STARS sites than with the 996XT. So what? Well, certain STARS users' talkgroups are affiliated with certain STARS tower sites even within a division (i.e., Division 5 Chesapeake....Marine Resources Commission and Chesapeake Bay Bridge Tunnel) and not simulcasted division wide but only on selected site towers (i.e., Hampton, Wlliamsburg) which I cannot hear on the 996XT. Maybe now with the 536 I can hear these and division sites located geographically farther away and log new STARS talkgroups previously I could not hear.

In order for me to see what STARS Division(s) site levels were getting STARS talkgroup "hits" I created a separate radio system for each previously STARS DIV 1site level entity. When I created the STARS DIV 1 site level files now at the radio system level, they were working fine as I had envisioned up to writing the last one. Obviously each STARS site levels which now are system files are a large size. That's when I unknowingly exceeded the 1 MB FL limit. The no no FL file size was 1.1MB. There are minimally more STARS Division's selected site levels programed files I additionally wanted to incorporate in this FL. But I cannot even incorporate the 8 sites in STARS DIV 1.

You may not like or agree with my method of operation but it works fine for me.

If someone can inform me how to make the 536 display a trs site level on a non #3 screen display on a talkgroup "hit" I would like to know how. The site level displays very quickly only during the scanning process. That would solve a major problem I have.

Now, that's the second very good reason for my monitoring requirements to exceed a Favorite List 1 MB file size limitation.

"Second there is a 1 mb limit but everyone has said its impossible to actually fill up that amount in favorite lists". EVERYONE said that? Well, it looks like EVERYONE was wrong. "Everyone's" monitoring requirements are not the same as mine. Not only is it possible to do but relatively easy to do as I inadvertently proved for a valid reason.

I can understand an "Out of Memory" message because the SD card memory has been exceeded but not a maximum limit on a Favorites List and especially a 1 MB limit! Uniden does not know my programing requirements and desires.

I don't want to have to create separate Favorite Lists just to monitor the STARS system. STARS belongs with my city and counties FL.

Now I don't what I am going to do. I am going to have to rethink and reconfigure my entire FL matrix plan because somebody(s) at Uniden thought it would be a good idea to limit a Favorite List to 1 MB because they could never envision any ever needing more than one 1 MB. Obviously that logic thinking path was wrong.

Tnx again for your response. I appreciate your comments and did not intend to criticize them. Again, I respect the way you program your needs and wants and I except the same respect in return. I should have known things were going too well. This 1 MB FL limitation has caused me unexpected frustration that somehow someway I will have to deal with which I will. It will be more FL files and probably involve more lower hierarchy quick keys.

John

W4UVV
 

Jay911

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Can you please zip up your favorite list(s) and email them to me at jay911@gmail.com? I would like to see how they're laid out and if I can help you streamline them a bit.

The entire database for all of North America is not quite 40 megabytes. I suspect your issue has to do with duplicating the STARS system multiple times in the favorites list. This still perplexes me because you'd need to have 31 copies of STARS in a favorites list before you would hit the 1 MB limit. That would also be horribly inefficient for scanning purposes.

As for site IDs, I have a 436, not a 536, but for me, the site is displayed below line 2 (below the talkgroup category, above the channel ID). I would suspect that the 536 works much the same way.

If I recall correctly, the site is logged by applications such as deskins' http://forums.radioreference.com/un...536-scanner-monitor-app-both-mac-windows.html .
 
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kellykeeton

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Good heavens - I can't even understand your post - I read it twice.

I stand by the fact I don't see how it's possible to have a FL larger then 1mb for anyone to consume that much data. Your dooin something crazy, I would suggest uploading your files and we can assist in debug. Additionally you can upload to a tool I have kellykeeton.com/uniden

My assumption is your needlessly replicating data
Over and over. Stop going on about your preference vs others - it's a computer and has limits. So you need to confirm to the limits.
 

phask

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If I understand you have 55 sites , more or less, and every talkgroup repeated for ea. site?

If so - 1st there is no way from a fixed location you can receive every site, 2nd if you are scanning every site you are missing more than you are hearing.

Even with no traffic you would have scan time of > 100 seconds before you were thru the entire list.

This might be OK for some type of logging,but useless for real scanning.

Even if you reduce to what sites you can receive it's is probably still way too many IMHO.

One workaround if you can't display sites _ and I thought you could, is to append it to the actual name.
 

ofd8001

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If I understand correctly, what you are trying to accomplish is to see on the display which site a received talkgroup is coming from.

I think there is a possible "work-around" to accomplish what you want to do. Unfortunately the word "work" will be applicable.

If I was in your shoes I'd try creating 55 Systems within the VSTARS Favorites List. Eash system would be a separate site. For example I'd have an Accomac System (with just the Accomac site), an Apple Orchard System (with just the Apple Orchard site) and so on.

This way when a talkgroup is received, you'd know which site it is coming from because the system name will be displayed.

Just to see if this would work from a programming standpoint, I tried doing about ten of these with ARC and was able to accomplish this. (I think ARC will do this easier than Sentinel).

It did lead to a 258KB Favorites List. So you'll likely exceed that capacity and you might need to create multiple Favorites Lists for VSTARS. Just guessing, you'll need three Favorites Lists. If I was going down this path, I'd probably give them quick keys 11, 12 and 13 (with the first "1" signifying it is a VSTARS FL).

You might find using Location Control to be helpful (which works even if your scanner is at a fixed location by setting the zipcode) to "turn off" Systems/sites beyond reach of your antennas.

Of course if you have to change channel names or add new ones, this will be painful. So there will be trade-offs.
 

W4UVV

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Maybe this will help you understand better

Can you please zip up your favorite list(s) and email them to me at jay911@gmail.com? I would like to see how they're laid out and if I can help you streamline them a bit.

The entire database for all of North America is not quite 40 megabytes. I suspect your issue has to do with duplicating the STARS system multiple times in the favorites list. This still perplexes me because you'd need to have 31 copies of STARS in a favorites list before you would hit the 1 MB limit. That would also be horribly inefficient for scanning purposes.

As for site IDs, I have a 436, not a 536, but for me, the site is displayed below line 2 (below the talkgroup category, above the channel ID). I would suspect that the 536 works much the same way.

If I recall correctly, the site is logged by applications such as deskins' http://forums.radioreference.com/un...536-scanner-monitor-app-both-mac-windows.html .
Jay,
I did nothing wrong. I did what I had to do in order to have a selected trs with MULTIPLE sites display the active MULTIPLE site level during a talkgroup comm. That way I could monitor that particular MULTIIPLE site possibly to add additional trs talkgroups to my talkgroups database. Some of these trs MULTIPLE sites are affiliated with selected tower sites within a division and not simulcasted division wide. Some of these MULTIPLE sites I cannot receive using the same antenna with my 996XT. My 536 is more RF signal input sensitive than my 996XLT. Yes, larger file sizes resulted with the method I used to achieve my goal. But my method works fine for my need. Using my 536 I now hear a trs site previously I could not with the 996XLT. This site now allows me to hear additional comms from two Va. State Police Divisions previously I could not hear using the 996XLT.

If the 536 screen displayed the trs MULTIPLE site level on the second line during a talkgroup comm, I would not have a problem. But the 536 does not do that. The trs MULTIPLE site levels are displayed ONLY MOMENTARILY during the system level scanning process and not during a talkgroup comm. So far I have been unable to make the trs MULTIPLE site levels display on the second line during a trs talkgroup comm. The problem is that simple. Yes, I agree my method is inefficient but it does work. But unless you or someone can tell me how to make a MULTIPLE trs site level to display on the second screen line during a talkgroup comm, I will continue to use what works for my need.

I appreciate your offer for help but I decline sending you a zipped file as it would contain selected off air monitored and other sourced data which I do not wish to make public.

Maybe Uniden will increase the FL max file size to 10MB like it did with a firmware upgrade to increase the X36 reception range from 30 to 50 miles. So changing the FL max size limit also could be a firmware change.

Tnx. for your response Jay.

John

W4UVV
 

JoeyC

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I too would be very interested to see this overbloated FL in zipped format. I can't imagine how anyone in one single state could possibly get anywhere near the 1 mb limit since has others have stated, everything in the entire state loaded would just be a few kb. I suspect if there is not excessive duplication of data in the FL file than the very first suggestion given has the answer. ALWAYS check Erase Favorites List on Scanner when doing an update as I think if you don't you just append the new data to the old in the scanner and with that method, I can see after repeated uploads the file size getting out of hand. (although I have never tested that theory)
 

W4UVV

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Where did I say I was going to 55 sites?

If I understand you have 55 sites , more or less, and every talkgroup repeated for ea. site?

If so - 1st there is no way from a fixed location you can receive every site, 2nd if you are scanning every site you are missing more than you are hearing.

Even with no traffic you would have scan time of > 100 seconds before you were thru the entire list.

This might be OK for some type of logging,but useless for real scanning.

Even if you reduce to what sites you can receive it's is probably still way too many IMHO.

One workaround if you can't display sites _ and I thought you could, is to append it to the actual name.
Where did I say I was going to program 55 STARS sites? The answer is no where! The key word is "selected" which means certain sites within my 536 monitoring area particularly a few which have talkgroup affiliations I previously could not receive with my 996XLT. Read what I posted and not attempt to over analyze. Really!

John
 

Jay911

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Nobody accused you of doing anything "wrong". At the same time, what you're doing (besides insisting on typing the word 'multiple' in caps every time you use it) is confusing to the rest of us (many of whom are veterans at using both HP-style scanners - of which the 536 is the second generation, the first being the HP-1 - and trunked radio systems), to say the least.

I can't understand exactly why you are programming the radio the way you have described. The closest I can come to a guess is where you said you want to know what site you are on when receiving a specific talkgroup or talkgroups. I've described one method to do it (get the on-screen application I linked to previously or Vonskie's similar PC & Mac app, referenced in another thread on the forum). Others have given you other suggestions which are equally appropriate in getting what you want done. Another solution, which would have personally been my first choice in terms of finding out what site I was listening to with regards to a certain talkgroup, would be to run Unitrunker or PRO96COM.

What you're trying to do is the programmatical equivalent of loading a VW Jetta down with a ton and a half of building supplies, and complaining when it doesn't work.

If you are unwilling to accept advice to change your methods, no one can help you. The maximum size of the favorites file was chosen for a reason. This isn't a case of "only a few people would hit that limit". Nobody should hit that limit. The entire database for all of the United States and Canada is 40 megabytes, for 50 states, 10 provinces, 3 territories, and various other chunks of data. You are somehow exceeding one-fortieth of that for just one system in one state.

Of course everybody has their own ways of doing things. No one is trying to deny you that. But from what we can understand, what you're doing is akin to putting a hundred television sets in a room - one for each channel you can receive - and complaining when you can't power them all from the same electrical circuit.

Good luck getting a solution that fits your rigid, inflexible needs.
 

JoeyC

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Simply providing the file as Jay911 suggested would quickly allow knowledgeable people to show you where you are going wrong, but I guess you'll have to figure it out yourself since the data is so secretive. :roll:

I, like the other poster above have read your explanation multiple times and can't figure out what you are trying to accomplish. If it is to see which site of a multi-site system is active at the time, then that has been explained already earlier.
 

Jay911

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ALWAYS check Erase Favorites List on Scanner when doing an update as I think if you don't you just append the new data to the old in the scanner and with that method, I can see after repeated uploads the file size getting out of hand. (although I have never tested that theory)
Not true; when you write to the scanner, it writes all the favorites files your profile says to write. It doesn't append them to one another or anything like that.

The only time I encountered a problem where erasing the FLs made a difference is when the radio had, let's say, 5 favorite files, and my profile had only 4. Writing 4 favorite files to the scanner doesn't erase f_0000005.hpd. If that fifth favorite file happens to have the same name as one of the other favorite files (i.e. "Local Stuff"), things can get weird.

You can't hurt anything by always erasing favorites lists when writing to the scanner (unless you have a FL on the scanner you don't have on the PC), but it's not necessary 100% of the time.
 

W4UVV

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Thanks for that brief light

These scanner files are actually really small. Just going by the Pro-18, you can store the entire US Radioreference database TWICE on this scanner, and that's with a "tiny" 2GB microSD card. Not sure if that can be translated to an x36HP, but I'm sure you would be hard-pressed to fill up a 2GB card.
Thanks for a common sense recognition and understanding. It is not an "out of memory" issue. It was a max file size exceeded constraint because somebody(s) at Uniden thought that's how it should be although that decision is in direct conflict with DMA user level programing. With DMA you have x amount of maximum memory capacity and the USER determines (allocates) usage, i.e., what systems to program regardless of individual file sizes. To my thinking this same user unconstrained process should apply to the 436/536 the same as it does with the 396XLT/996XLT..

It's crazy. My 996XLT has 127 radio systems programed,173 sites programed and 24,522 channels (frequencies) programed using 73% of available DMA memory. A user DMA file with a 1MB FL max file constraint is ridiculous. In the 536 it certainly is not a user level DMA memory allocated programing process.

I have programed all 95 counties, 35 independent city and selected Business, Federal, Aviation, Military Aviation (7,000 frequencies) and other selected areas for a total 24,800 frequencies in my 996XLT. I maintain a frequency data for Virginia in MS EXCEL which is almost 5 mb.

I also use a 996XLT mobile. It is GPS controlled and works fine. I lock out selected systems which I do not wish to monitor locally. When mobile GPS unlocks/locks these systems. My 536 will be GPS controlled and I planned on programing it like the 996XLT. That what I was in the process of doing when I exceeded the FL 1 MB file size limit. Obviously some individuals cannot relate to GPS scanner controlled programing and responding to the "I can't imagine" and "I would love to see.." type posts are a waste of time.

Thanks for your post.

John
 

Jay911

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Obviously some individuals cannot relate to GPS scanner controlled programing
I've got favorites lists for 8 Canadian provinces and half-a-dozen US states (the entirety of each state/province), and use them regularly when I travel with my HP1 and GPS (on my next trip and subsequent trips, my 436HP and GPS). I've been using location-based (GPS) scanning since the days of the 396T/996T, moved up through the 396XT/996XT (note: there's no such thing as a 996XLT), used several HP1s, and now the 436HP.

Like I said, good luck. You're going to need it.
 
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