7202 RR DB Site 18 Freqs Mostly Wrong

[N7OLQ]

As I have been playing with Unitrunker trying to solve a weird problem, one of the things I noticed is that Lake IR (site 18) freqs are very different from what is in RR database.

The list as shown in radioreference db:
851.4250c
853.8875a
853.6375
853.9625
853.9875
854.1875
854.2875
859.0125
859.1625
851.7500



This is what Unitrunker sees (and they are all quite active):
853.8875a same
851.4250c same
851.1625 new
853.1625 new
853.2125 new
853.6375 same
857.4375 new
859.1625 same
859.4375 new
859.5625 new
851.7500 same

My real question is not so much why the RR db is incorrect, but how recently was the site totally changed and more importantly, why? Is this part of the P25 prep work?

 

[Reconrider]

Check the fcc license and see what was newly added/removed and you'll have the answer.
It's good to assume the frequencies were recently added and might need to be submitted to RRdb

 

[Junior1970]

Utah County has TWO simocast sites: Lake Mountain Simo (7202 Site 18) and Utah Simo (7202 Site 4) which the UCA techs are calling "Happy Valley Simo."
Not sure on Site 4 but I believe it hosts four sites at Kimball Tower (BYU), East Lehi, UC Jail and West Mountain.
Site 18 hosts two sites (that I know of) on Lake Mountain and Cedar Pass (Eagle Mtn.) There may be more but I don't know for sure.
This all took place a couple of years ago or maybe sooner because of growth and coverage issues.

 

[N7OLQ]

Yes, its been years since I did any site research. What I'm finding is that what I thought was Lake IR (Site 18), seems to actually be a north lake area Simo site with 3 sites:

WQED799 East Lehi, mouth of AF Canyon

WREL966 Hills above The Ranches (Cedar Pass Ranch)

WPRH431 Top of Lake Mountain, although this site only lists 5 of the 15 repeater freqs - not sure how that would work to carry simo traffic.

The BYU Kimball tower site seems to be officially part of the 643E system -Site 30. It is a very quiet site. I'm not sure what the difference is between 7202 and 643E any more. They seem to use them as the same system.

 

[N7OLQ]

I take that back, at least the FCC records show Kimball tower as one of the simo sites with 852.6625 control channel. Not sure if that is still the case, but that is what's on file.

 

[enosjones]

Technically 7202 is zone 1 north zone and 643e zone 2 south zone, why they put site 30 Provo in zone 2 is beyond me, anyway in regards to a site that the frequencies don't match either the database or the fcc license, I've had that very issue with the new horn site down here, the frequencies don't match the license, I probably did something I shouldn't and emailed the UCA tech guys to make them aware of it, in case it had gone unchecked, and now they have been on astro 1 & 2 encrypted since I emailed them.. Anyway I do know of discrepancies in the frequencies.. I try to make sure the stuff is correct and updated but I can only hear 4 sites where I'm at... And don't get to salt lake or Provo that often

 

[enosjones]

All I can suggest is find out the frequencies and submit a correction , and check the doc license to make sure it hasn't been changed

 

[N7OLQ]

Years ago when 7202 was being set up, it was quite common for them to move frequencies around as needed and fix the FCC paperwork later. I was told the FCC was fine with after-the-fact paperwork updates. Ever since then I don't rely on FCC records for site info. I just used mtrunker to map the sites (now Unitrunker).

 

[N7OLQ]

Technically 7202 is zone 1 north zone and 643e zone 2 south zone, why they put site 30 Provo in zone 2 is beyond me,

Are you saying there are 3 zones in Utah County?
1. 7202 site 4 UC Simo "Central" 852.6625 control
2. 7202 site 18 "North" 851.425 control
3. 643e site 30 "South" 851.575 control

It seems right, I just never realized they were doing it that way.

 

[enosjones]

The 7202 system , is a zone, it’s zone 1, mostly north, 643e is another zone in the system mostly south.

 

[pmstewart]

I've mentioned it in other threads and have experienced this frequently. It seems if a user comes roaming on a tower it drags along the previous frequency into UT. This posts a new freq to the site I'm monitoring - keeps 1 user on that freq forever - so I usually delete this freq from my map.

Question is do these freq's reappear after deleting them and are their active radios using them constantly? If this is the case then enos is correct - submit it to the db admin for correction and we can all give feedback as to whether it is working correctly.

 

[enosjones]

As users travel the state, their radio registers with each site its near, what ever channel they are on will be broadcast on that site, (I use unitrunker and see this all the time) some radios are denied access on that site while others are granted access. Someone from my area goes up to salt lake still monitoring price dispatch, it will follow them clear to salt lake unless they change channels, each channel they change to registers on the site, some are allowed while others are denied access, depends on what that site allows and what radio it’s coming from.

 

[theaton]

Any resolution or new testing on this discrepancy?

 

[N7YUO]

Quote:
Technically 7202 is zone 1 north zone and 643e zone 2 south zone,
why they put site 30 Provo in zone 2 is beyond me.
#
Currently, there are three 643e sites "up north", they are:
643E 015 POINT OF THE MOUNTAIN
643E 016 ADC JAIL
643E 030 SPENCER W KIMBALL TOWERS BYU CAMPUS
Why are they on 643e? Probably to prevent all the local 7202 users from affiliating with those sites.
That would give the Prison, ADC Jail, and BYU, exclusive use of those sites.

 

[N7YUO]

Quote:
Are you saying there are 3 zones in Utah County?
1. 7202 site 4 UC Simo "Central" 852.6625 control
2. 7202 site 18 "North" 851.425 control
3. 643e site 30 "South" 851.575 control
#
I just finished my extensive site research on UCA. On the FCC ULS website. I found a lot of surprises.
As far as I can tell. there are only two simul sites un Utah County at this time. They are:
643E 030
WPRS306 SPENCER W KIMBALL TOWERS BYU CAMPUS
WPRS306 WEST MOUNTAIN
There are no other sites that share these frequencies.

7202 Site 018? or Site 004?
WPRH431 LAKE MOUNTAIN APPROX 24KM WEST OF PROVO, UT
WREL966 CEDAR PASS 12.8 KM WSW OF LEHI
WQED799 EAST BENCH OF LEHI, UT

I do not believe there is a 7202 Site 004 anymore.

 

[N7YUO]

During my site research I made some other discoveries.
Many of the 7202 sites have two sets of frequencies.
There is the set that is currently in-use,
and another complete set, probably for the P25 changeover.
Anyone that wants a copy of my Excel spreadsheet, PM me please.
#
Allow me to show a brief example:
7202 012 Medicine Butte
WQGX722 856.4375 857.4375 858.4375 859.4375 859.7625 (freqs in use now)
WQAV263 851.7875 852.2375 852.8875 853.2625 853.5500 (new frequencies)
#
So far, these sites have two sets:
Weber County Simulcast
Davis County Simulcast
Salt Lake County Simulcast
Cache Valley Simulcast
Promontory Point
Mount Ogden
Morgan Peak
Francis Peak
Davis County Landfill
Medicine Butte
Parley's Canyon
Logan Peak
Hobble Creek Canyon
Teat Peak
Strawberry Peak
Lewis Peak
Mount Baldy
Wasatch Simulcast
Scotts Peak
Currant Creek
Vernon Hills
Wendover Peak
Barton Peak
Tabby Mountain
Ibapah
Hansel Mountain
Echo Peak

 

[N7YUO]

More surprises.
The current freqs for WB Simul have these 4 transmitter sites: (copied from FCC website) (I'm not YELLING!)
OGDEN PUBLIC SAFETY CTR 2187 LINCOLN AVE, OGDEN, UT
ROCKY POINT 4KM NW OF NORTH OGDEN, UT
DRIVERS LICENSE DIV, 615 E 5300 S, SOUTH OGDEN, UT
RESERVOIR HILL 500 SOUTH 600 EAST, BRIGHAM CITY, UT
#
But the new WB Simul frequencies do not show Reservoir Hill. WQED625
#
Reservoir Hill will have its own site frequencies:
WQED633 RESERVOIR HILL 852.6370 853.0750 853.5375
#
Those of you in Happy Valley will get a new site also:
WQED621 - 3075 NORTH MAIN SP FK (12 freqs listed)
There are no new freqs listed yet for Lake Mtn. or Nelson Pk.
#
Most of the new sites have WQED--- callsigns.

 

[N7YUO]

Just another thought before I go to bed.
If the techs are building the new digital system, and it appears that is what they are doing,
wouldn't it be more practical to make these new (northern) sites digital to begin with?
#
Why build them obsolete analog Motorola, and then have to convert them to P25?
So, the new sites at Raft River Mts, Dugway, Goslin Mtn. & Spaish Fork, might just be P25 to begin with.

 

[enosjones]

Probably the new set of frequencies are for p25 they will probably run both for a while in case of any problems, so the Motorola would still be in use til the p25 frequencies are fully implemented

 

[enosjones]

During my site research I made some other discoveries.
Many of the 7202 sites have two sets of frequencies.
There is the set that is currently in-use,
and another complete set, probably for the P25 changeover.
Anyone that wants a copy of my Excel spreadsheet, PM me please.
#
Allow me to show a brief example:
7202 012 Medicine Butte
WQGX722 856.4375 857.4375 858.4375 859.4375 859.7625 (freqs in use now)
WQAV263 851.7875 852.2375 852.8875 853.2625 853.5500 (new frequencies)
#
So far, these sites have two sets:
Weber County Simulcast
Davis County Simulcast
Salt Lake County Simulcast
Cache Valley Simulcast
Promontory Point
Mount Ogden
Morgan Peak
Francis Peak
Davis County Landfill
Medicine Butte
Parley's Canyon
Logan Peak
Hobble Creek Canyon
Teat Peak
Strawberry Peak
Lewis Peak
Mount Baldy
Wasatch Simulcast
Scotts Peak
Currant Creek
Vernon Hills
Wendover Peak
Barton Peak
Tabby Mountain
Ibapah
Hansel Mountain
Echo Peak

I'd like that list if you don't mind, also in the other thread I seen the Vernon hills has 3 frequencies that match dugway , but they are a little bit distant but both in Tooele county