9 to 1 balun for shortwave antenna

[tactcom42]

Was wanting to know if anyone here that is into shortwave.Do you use a 9 to 1 balun on your end fed dipole?I know lowbander sells them on ebay.And was thinking of making one or buying one from him. Have you notice a big change in reception and or noise?

Is it worth it?

Thanks David

 

[ke5ldo]

Better still is to buy the PAR END-FED SWL antenna. I have used one for over 7 years. IMHO, it can't be beat. many mounting options, too. only about 65 dollars from many vendors.

 

[kb2vxa]

First of all there is no such thing as an end fed dipole. The name indicates two active elements does it not? An end fed antenna working against ground is unbalanced to begin with and does not require a balun. On the other hand a dipole is a balanced antenna and requires a balun in SOME but not all cases depending on it's specific design and feed point impedance which determines the type of balun, voltage or current balun if required. It's a very long story and a public forum is not the place for writing a book on antenna theory, the ARRL among other publishers have them on the rack at your disposal.

I'll give you a quick hint just to set you straight on what a balun does, BALanced to UNbalanced impedance matching device. Now check the HRO on line catalog for those publications, they'll do you a world of good.

Hey, I just realized something. "I know lowbander sells them on ebay." There you have it in a nut shell, FleaBay sure is good for a laugh but little else.

 

[ka3jjz]

David, the files and photos section of the Shortwave SWL antenna group has extensive articles and photos that discuss baluns and winding your own. With a minimum investment you can learn a little about these devices. The URL is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/

These discussions are somewhat technical in nature, but there's enough basic information there to give you some ideas.

73 Mike

 

[tactcom42]

First of all there is no such thing as an end fed dipole. The name indicates two active elements does it not? An end fed antenna working against ground is unbalanced to begin with and does not require a balun. On the other hand a dipole is a balanced antenna and requires a balun in SOME but not all cases depending on it's specific design and feed point impedance which determines the type of balun, voltage or current balun if required. It's a very long story and a public forum is not the place for writing a book on antenna theory, the ARRL among other publishers have them on the rack at your disposal.

I'll give you a quick hint just to set you straight on what a balun does, BALanced to UNbalanced impedance matching device. Now check the HRO on line catalog for those publications, they'll do you a world of good.

Hey, I just realized something. "I know lowbander sells them on ebay." There you have it in a nut shell, FleaBay sure is good for a laugh but little else.

Hey man didnt mean to piss you off!!!! I was just asking a question. if anyone has used that type of balun.And if it help reception at all. I know there's books on antenna theory,And didnt ask you to write a book.

 

[tactcom42]

David, the files and photos section of the Shortwave SWL antenna group has extensive articles and photos that discuss baluns and winding your own. With a minimum investment you can learn a little about these devices. The URL is:

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Shortwave-SWL-Antenna/

These discussions are somewhat technical in nature, but there's enough basic information there to give you some ideas.

73 Mike

Thanks I will check that out. would like to build my own.

 

[SAR923]

Hey man didnt mean to piss you off!!!! I was just asking a question. if anyone has used that type of balun.And if it help reception at all. I know there's books on antenna theory,And didnt ask you to write a book.

Don't worry about it. Warren loves to come into a thread, throw a bomb, and then watch for carnage. :roll: Just ignore 90% of what he posts and you'll do OK.

 

[Shortwavewave]

Yes 9:1 balun wont "increase" your reception, but it will improve it, by cutting out a heck of a lot of noise.

Just be careful putting a balun on a dipole is a little trick-yer than most, you dont wanna mix up the center and sheild, and end up with it touching, resulting a useless coax thrown up in the air.

 

[kb2vxa]

Speaking of tact,

"Hey man didnt mean to piss you off!!!!"

HUH?

"I was just asking a question."

And you got an answer.

"if anyone has used that type of balun."

That's a very odd ratio so that's highly unlikely.

"And if it help reception at all."

Another HUH? Just what are you getting at?

"I know there's books on antenna theory"

And they have what you need as per my suggestion.

"And didnt ask you to write a book."

And I didn't write one, I suggested you read one. Now please, there is something more important at this juncture than learning theory, dig that bug out of your arse. Having said that you may talk to the wind, I have no intentions of back and forth flaming and every intention of helping those receptive to help, that is those without such a hostile attitude such as yours. Meanwhile you have my sincere apology, I had no idea the mere suggestion of learning what a balun is all about beyond what you can learn on a public forum was such a sore spot for you.

 

[Bill_White]

Well, if you don't want to join another group...
Here is how to make one:
http://www.kc7nod.20m.com/new_page_1.htm

 

[smason]

Technically most 9:1 "baluns" connecting coax to long wire type (i.e. not dipoles) antennas are really un-uns as both sides are unbalances, but it's commonly (incorrectly) called a balun.
From what I've read it's a very effective method of feeding a wire antenna, and can reduce noise.
Google finds tons of ways to make one, and making one is way cheaper than the overpriced commercial units.

I may be making one myself soon.

 

[tactcom42]

Technically most 9:1 "baluns" connecting coax to long wire type (i.e. not dipoles) antennas are really un-uns as both sides are unbalances, but it's commonly (incorrectly) called a balun.
From what I've read it's a very effective method of feeding a wire antenna, and can reduce noise.
Google finds tons of ways to make one, and making one is way cheaper than the overpriced commercial units.

I may be making one myself soon.

Yes have read some stuff on the net about them .should Have said long wire and not dipole.Have got some good homebrew stuff off the net.will check on building one and seeing how it works.Have alot of noise around here.Going to also get the end up higher.its attached to the fence.

Thanks for the info

 

[kb2vxa]

NOW we're getting somewhere! Being a random length "long wire" exhibits a wide range of feed point impedance across the bands the idea is to avoid an extremely low in the order of a few ohms input to the coax. Additionally an un-un provides a ground reference point to the outer conductor (shield) so it actually behaves like a transmission line rather than becoming part of the antenna system. That's why noise is reduced, the coax picks up far less noise when the shield is actually a shield and not an antenna.

Tact that's quite right, you should have used the proper term to begin with but you're easily forgiven for having gotten off on the wrong foot so thanks for the "apology". A word of caution, don't trust everything you find on the net. Trust only web sites of a more technical nature such as the "official" ham sites like the ARRL for example. There are other really good ones and a few forums such as AM Fone where you will find the real experts, some I happen to know personally for years and they'll never give you a bum steer. Still the best sources are the print publications (Not hobby mags!) having been written by experts, highly outstanding Amateurs and professionals. Good luck to you and may your learning curve be ever upward.

Smason, I thank you most of all for setting the record straight and clearing the air. Frankly I haven't heard of un-uns being used quite for this purpose so maybe I got off on the wrong foot too. Hams have a totally different approach to end fed antennas than SWLs being we transmit with them so transmission line return loss (SWR) becomes an issue. The possible exception is the Beverage being it's a special low noise receiving antenna but that's getting way off track here, maybe it piqued somebody's curiosity though.