a 700Mhz LTR Passport system in Dallas area?

[mr_hankey]

ok, i just noticed an update to the rr db this morning that seems to indicate a 700Mhz LTR Passport system is in use in the DFW area.

i once considered a VHF LTR Passport system strange, but this takes the cake!

anyone who live up there care to comment on that system?

 

[nd5y]

They were talking about it on the dfwscan yahoo group.
I don't have anything that will pick up those freqs to even check and I don't
think anybody else has confirmed it yet. I think it only exists on paper
like the State of Texas 700 MHz state license. http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=2377059
There are still several TV stations in the area on ch 60 - 68 so the band
is useless until they move.

Tom

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

Of course if it is real I want some ltrdump.txt files of the system so I can figure out the lcn mapping! Logs of 800, 900, and VHF Passport systems are needed as well. Please!

I looked into this and the spectrum is in the "Upper 700 MHz" section and called 700 MHz Guard Bands.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/guard700/data/bandplan.html

There were two auctions so far and 3 companies got the bulk of the licenses. Only AccessSpectrum has an active frequency leasing operation.
http://www.accessspectrum.com/3_1_2.html

AccessSpectrum also has 220 licenses that they lease. There is a local 220 MHz Passport system coming online in Boston that is using frequencies leased from AccessSpectrum.

So there are frequencies available to lease and actual systems being built at least in AccessSpectrum areas.

It seems there are "hidden" trunked systems coming on-line or recently built on 217, 220, and 700 MHz Guard Band for Commercial plus the new 380 to 400 MHz band for Government.

73 Eric

 

[mr_hankey]

that is amazing...

wonder what equipment will be used to operate on the 700Mhz trunked system? (although i'm sure everyone from Kenwood to Motorola will rush in to fill the void)

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

It is likely Motorola. DFW Communications is a Motorola Dealer.

The 220 system in Boston uses 100 Watt Quantars for the Repeaters. The DNC used Motorola HT1250LS+ radios on the 217 MHz system. Several Motorola radios are available for LTR/Passport for 200, 700, and UHF.

It seems Motorola is supporting LTR/Passport for business use.

73 Eric

 

[INDY72]

Motorola is supporting LTR for Public Safety too.. at least in MS,.. most of the HT's in Use in Simpson County, MS on the VHF LTR's, are HT1250's.. same for the Adams, County, MS UHF LTR Passport. Some of the mobiles are Motos, and some are Taits. The biggest suppliers for PS seem to be EFJ, Motorola, and Tait.

 

[mam1081]

Supposedly there is a 700MHz trunked system here around Oklahoma City also. I have not been able to find the frequencies, but I have heard this beast does exist. They (I think it was One-Link wireless) even have an ad in the phone book that boasts about it's security and privacy. The ad says they have a link here in OKC, and one in 4 surrounding counties. I searched through 700s the other day, but was unable to come up with a data channel, so it makes sense to be LTR. I have heard they are using motorola radios for this LTR system.

I was under the impression that all new 700 systems were to be digital....last I checked, LTR was not digital.

 

[EricCottrell]

Supposedly there is a 700MHz trunked system here around Oklahoma City also. I have not been able to find the frequencies, but I have heard this beast does exist. They (I think it was One-Link wireless) even have an ad in the phone book that boasts about it's security and privacy. The ad says they have a link here in OKC, and one in 4 surrounding counties. I searched through 700s the other day, but was unable to come up with a data channel, so it makes sense to be LTR. I have heard they are using motorola radios for this LTR system.

I was under the impression that all new 700 systems were to be digital....last I checked, LTR was not digital.

Hello,

The public safety stuff will be digital.

Let's see if we can figure this out.

Oklahoma City is in MEA 37.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/maps/auc33map.pdf

The auction license winners shows AccessSpectrum has the "A" block.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/33/charts/33cls3.pdf

AccessSpectrum 700 Map looks weird because they overlayed the MEAs they won over a US map showing the states. They show 80 channel pairs of 12.5 KHz spacing, which is two 1 MHz blocks. This confirms they have the "A" Block.
http://www.accessspectrum.com/3_1_2.html

If we look at the Bandplan, the "A" block are two 1 MHz segments from 746 to 747 MHz and 776 to 777 MHz.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/auctions/data/bandplans/700band.pdf

If we use the the DFW area system as a template, the Repeater Outputs will be in the 746 to 747 MHz segment. The Repeater Inputs are 776 to 777 MHz. The channel plan is likely to be Super Narrow FM of 12.5 KHz spacing, offset by 6.25 KHz from the band edge, i.e. 746.00625, 746.01875, 746.03125, etc.

So I would search from 746 to 747 MHz using a step of 6.25 KHz and see if you hear any bursts. I also noticed the spacing of frequencies in a site is 500 KHz, which is similar to what is done for 220 MHz. If you find something, look up and down the band in 500 KHz increments and you may find other site frequencies.

So other people in the Areas where AccessSpectrum has licenses can follow a similar procedure and reduce the search scope to a limited band of frequencies. I would not be surprised if there are systems in other Texas cities.

73 Eric

 

[SCPD]

Licensed to the state of texas, I wonder if this is the new NTTA system. to be used by North Texas DPS or Specificly Dallas Tollway Operations Including TXDOT, NTTA, DPS, TABC and a few others.

Heck, even the New ICOM's are supposed to be 700mhz capable. But if it's a St. of Tx. thing, EFJ could be suspect at this point. Remember LTR is an origional Product of the EFJ Corp. and who better then to toy with LTR and 700Mhz than EFJ. The Big Question is, is it being set up by a Local Dealer?
Delta Comm. is an EFJ Dealer, as is Com-Tex and Champion. If it's a Motorola System, then Well, Someone needs to Call D/FW and get the facts from them, as D/FW handles about 98% of Dallas Metro Public Safety Trunking.

Happy Holidays
MT
Man, it's snowing up here today!

 

[nd5y]

I thought I posted this here earlier but could not find it.
There is an interesting web site, the CAPRAD 700 MHz public safety database here:
http://caprad.nlectc.du.edu

You can log in as username "guest" / password "guest" and
look at the 700 MHz public safety spectrum summary and channel allotments for each region and county.
They also have a lot of good links and documents.

Tom

 

[EricCottrell]

Hello,

This system is not Public Safety but Private Wireless. They are in the guard band segments that protect Public Safety Spectrum.
http://wireless.fcc.gov/services/guard700/

Callsign for the DFW system should be WPRV436.
Callsign for the OKC system should be WPRV438.

It appears the buildout needs to be completed before the licenses expire on 1/1/2015.

You people in Houston, San Antonio, and El Paso should check 746 MHz and see if there are any systems active there as well.

I may be going down to the LA not in California next fall, so a sidetrip to Texas is looking good.

73 Eric

 

[SCPD]

The second post on this thread by Tom-ND5Y has the Link to the License, the Licensee is the State of Texas. How can the State of Texas be a private [Comercial] user and Not a Public safety user?

MT

 

[nd5y]

I'm sorry I confused everybody by posting stuff about public safety systems.
That is correct, the system mr hankey was referring to is not public safety.

Tom

 

[EricCottrell]

The second post on this thread by Tom-ND5Y has the Link to the License, the Licensee is the State of Texas. How can the State of Texas be a private [Comercial] user and Not a Public safety user?

MT

Hello,

No, Tom-ND5Y said (Emphasis is mine):
"I think it only exists on paper like the State of Texas 700 MHz state license."

The real link to the license is
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/UlsApp/UlsSearch/license.jsp?licKey=1944411

There is a requirement for the 700 MHz "Band Managers" to file annual reports.
http://wireless2.fcc.gov/documents/guard700-reports/AccessSpectrum2004.pdf
As of January 2004 there were seven agreements with Access Spectrum. The use of the word deployment seems to indicate they are being constructed and some may be operational nearly a year later.

I hope some of you down in DFW get an AOR receiver for Christmas so it can be settled if this system is on the air or not.

73 Eric

 

[mr_hankey]

So I would search from 746 to 747 MHz using a step of 6.25 KHz and see if you hear any bursts. I also noticed the spacing of frequencies in a site is 500 KHz, which is similar to what is done for 220 MHz. If you find something, look up and down the band in 500 KHz increments and you may find other site frequencies.
73 Eric

i don't remember if the PRO-96 can scan this portion of the bandplan, but most scannists will be hard-pressed to scan this segment without unblocked or overseas equipment.

esoteric, but my UK IC-R2 will do it.

too bad Uniden's 296 won't : (

 

[SCPD]

Why wait for an Expensive AOR Radio. The Pro-96 does 700mhz. when used with Win96.

MT

 

[SCPD]

So why dosn't someone contact Access Spectrum and ask them if this thing is for real. and when it will be up, and what it is used for?

See, Thats what I get for not following the whole thread-MisInformed. My Bad!

Geez!

Happy Holidays
MT

 

[n4voxgill]

Local governments can be both public safety and commercial. If they file for a commercial frequency they must pay the fcc fees. If they file as public safety no fcc fees. This has been very common in past for city electric or water departments to have licenses, sometimes even both public safety and commerical. One south florida city bought a commerical 800 frequency when they could not get a public safety as they were all being used.

 

[EricCottrell]

So I would search from 746 to 747 MHz using a step of 6.25 KHz and see if you hear any bursts. I also noticed the spacing of frequencies in a site is 500 KHz, which is similar to what is done for 220 MHz. If you find something, look up and down the band in 500 KHz increments and you may find other site frequencies.
73 Eric

i don't remember if the PRO-96 can scan this portion of the bandplan, but most scannists will be hard-pressed to scan this segment without unblocked or overseas equipment.

esoteric, but my UK IC-R2 will do it.

too bad Uniden's 296 won't : (

Hello,

I hope the Pro96 has more sensitivity at 746 MHz than 380 MHz. I found a P25 trunked system on the 380 MHz band in Washington, DC. People with Pro96 radios could not hear it. One fellow had to feed the IF from his WJ receiver into the Pro96 to finally hear it and decode it with Pro96Comm.

I got a AOR 8600 Mark 2 to replace a Yaesu VR-5000 that did not impress me. I like the AOR 8600. It took alittle reading to figure out the menus but it has better menus than the VR-5000. I like the Discriminator Output being provided. As my interests get beyond just monitoring the local public safety agencies I find more features that are useful. The dual receivers of the VR-5000 is neat but the AOR 8600 is a better receiver.

I looked at the specs for my Unidens and noticed the gap between UHF-T band and 800 MHz. I guess you need to make a trip to DFW with your IC-R2. You are closer.

73 Eric

 

[EricCottrell]

DFW Communications (700 MHz Passport) System

Hello,

I noticed today the system must be real as someone posted site info.
http://www.radioreference.com/modules.php?name=TRSDB&sid=3798

I would be interested in any LTRDump logs if it was used to monitor the system.

I am also looking for VHF, 800, and 900 MHz Passport LTRDump logs.

73 Eric