a PACK of what?

[ALTARADIOBOY]

Hi Gang,

I'm going to play with WinLink as a newbie on HF. So my first question is about TNC's.

What's the difference between packet and pactor modems? Or are they the same thing?

Cheers'
altaradioboy

 

[AK9R]

Packet usually refers to AX.25 which is an amateur version of the X.25 data protocol. In AX.25, data is assembled into "packets" of a certain length. The transmitting station calculates a checksum that is transmitted along with the packet. The receiving station calculates a checksum on the received data and if the calculated checksum matches the transmitted checksum, the receiving station transmits an acknowledgement (ACK) indicating that the packet was received correctly. If the transmitting station receives an ACK, it will transmit the next packet. If the transmitting station doesn't receive an ACK, it will retry sending the failed packet a certain number of times until it gives up. Packet can be used on HF at 300 baud, on VHF at 1200 baud, and on higher frequencies at higher baud rates.

I'm a little hazier about PACTOR, but I've gathered that it is a evolution of packet and AMTOR. AMTOR is similar to RTTY and is the amateur version of SITOR. The advantage of AMTOR over RTTY is that AMTOR has some error detection which RTTY does not have. PACTOR comes in four "flavors", PACTOR, PACTOR II, PACTOR III, and PACTOR IV. PACTOR improves the throughput of AMTOR by using some data compression and wider bandwidths.

Either packet or PACTOR require some sort of Terminal Node Controller. Traditionally, TNCs were hardware devices that assembled/disassembled the packets and did the modulation/demodulation of the audio signals that are used over the air. For packet, there are software TNCs that run in your computer so all you need is an audio interface between your radio and your computer. Note that PACTOR IV TNCs are only available from a single source and are rather expensive.

Winlink typically uses packet on VHF/UHF and some flavor of PACTOR, or Winmor, on HF. Winmor was developed by the Winlink team and does not require a TNC.

If your plan is to dabble with Winlink on HF, download and install Winlink Express and use Winmor. You won't need a TNC.

 

[K4EET]

ALTARADIOBOY, hello and welcome to Radio Reference!

As for WinLink on HF, I've been dabbling in that a little bit. I use WinLink Express:

Winlink Express

Download Winlink Express (current production version) Relevant Links Winlink Hybrid Network B2F extension radio transfer protocol a growing library of automatically-updated, included forms Introducing Winlink Express, the ultimate radio email client designed for seamless communication. With its...

winlink.org

and depending on what your HF rig is, you may or may not need a modem between the computer and the HF rig such as a SignaLink.

SignaLink USB Interface

If you have a Software Defined Radio (SDR) like a FlexRadio or the Yaesu FT-DX101D, you will not need a SignaLink (IIRC).

73, Dave K4EET

 

[ALTARADIOBOY]

Packet usually refers to AX.25 which is an amateur version of the X.25 data protocol. In AX.25, data is assembled into "packets" of a certain length. The transmitting station calculates a checksum that is transmitted along with the packet. The receiving station calculates a checksum on the received data and if the calculated checksum matches the transmitted checksum, the receiving station transmits an acknowledgement (ACK) indicating that the packet was received correctly. If the transmitting station receives an ACK, it will transmit the next packet. If the transmitting station doesn't receive an ACK, it will retry sending the failed packet a certain number of times until it gives up. Packet can be used on HF at 300 baud, on VHF at 1200 baud, and on higher frequencies at higher baud rates.

I'm a little hazier about PACTOR, but I've gathered that it is a evolution of packet and AMTOR. AMTOR is similar to RTTY and is the amateur version of SITOR. The advantage of AMTOR over RTTY is that AMTOR has some error detection which RTTY does not have. PACTOR comes in four "flavors", PACTOR, PACTOR II, PACTOR III, and PACTOR IV. PACTOR improves the throughput of AMTOR by using some data compression and wider bandwidths.

Either packet or PACTOR require some sort of Terminal Node Controller. Traditionally, TNCs were hardware devices that assembled/disassembled the packets and did the modulation/demodulation of the audio signals that are used over the air. For packet, there are software TNCs that run in your computer so all you need is an audio interface between your radio and your computer. Note that PACTOR IV TNCs are only available from a single source and are rather expensive.

Winlink typically uses packet on VHF/UHF and some flavor of PACTOR, or Winmor, on HF. Winmor was developed by the Winlink team and does not require a TNC.

If your plan is to dabble with Winlink on HF, download and install Winlink Express and use Winmor. You won't need a TNC.

Thanks for the INFO !

Ah AH ! Yea, see thats the confusing part so they both do have TNC's but they're not the same thing. You sort of answered my question too, I kinda guessed that Pactor was an evolution of Packet but I wasn't sure. My reason for asking is I want to try to get an old Kantronics TNC going but I just wanted to confirm that they aren't the same thing! Thanks again .....

Cheers'
AltaRadioBoy

 

[ALTARADIOBOY]

ALTARADIOBOY, hello and welcome to Radio Reference!

As for WinLink on HF, I've been dabbling in that a little bit. I use WinLink Express:

Winlink Express

Download Winlink Express (current production version) Relevant Links Winlink Hybrid Network B2F extension radio transfer protocol a growing library of automatically-updated, included forms Introducing Winlink Express, the ultimate radio email client designed for seamless communication. With its...

winlink.org

and depending on what your HF rig is, you may or may not need a modem between the computer and the HF rig such as a SignaLink.

SignaLink USB Interface

If you have a Software Defined Radio (SDR) like a FlexRadio or the Yaesu FT-DX101D, you will not need a SignaLink (IIRC).

73, Dave K4EET

Hi Dave,

Well to be honest I did have an account on WinLink a billion years ago using my Signal Link and my 857 but it's been MORE than a long while since I used it. I only sent one or two test messages as a proof of concept to test it. I did have it working once but from where I am in Calgary Canada, as I recall from a few years ago there wasn't much back then for a decent RMS node near me. I used the RMS Express software as I recall.

I'd like to get it going again but I'm also wondering if a pactor modem is the way to go versus that signal link, I also have a packet modem kicking around but I don't know if it worth trying to start up.

Cheers'
AltaRadioBoy

 

[AK9R]

RMS Express has evolved into Winlink Express. Basically the same program, but different names.

Winmor, which is built into Winlink Express, is a sound card data mode like PSK31, Olivia, FT8, etc. To use Winmor, all you need is an interface between your radio and your computer. The Signalink USB provides that interface as do several other products. As Dave mentioned, several newer HF radios include a USB sound card interface built into the radio which eliminates the need for an external interface like the Signalink.

The great advantage to Winlink over HF is that the node you access to send/receive mail does not need to be near you. I've used 80m modes that were 100 miles away and 20m nodes that were 1000 miles away.

PACTOR III and PACTOR IV modems are expensive, generally over $1000. That's why Winmor is a more attractive solution for most people.

 

[K4EET]

W9BU or ALTARADIOBOY, a local ham asked me the other day what a real practical purpose of WinLink would be for somebody that is not involved in emergency communications. I was not really sure how to answer them since I am not all that familiar with WinLink. The extent of my WinLink experience so far has been another ham, in the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES), asked me to help them get their WinLink HF link operational so for the first time ever, I downloaded WinLink Express and connected to a Node and sent an eMail. Other than that one encounter, I am clueless of what all WinLink can do and how ARES utilizes it.

Thanks in advance... 73, Dave K4EET

 

[ALTARADIOBOY]

W9BU or ALTARADIOBOY, a local ham asked me the other day what a real practical purpose of WinLink would be for somebody that is not involved in emergency communications. I was not really sure how to answer them since I am not all that familiar with WinLink. The extent of my WinLink experience so far has been another ham, in the Amateur Radio Emergency Service (ARES), asked me to help them get their WinLink HF link operational so for the first time ever, I downloaded WinLink Express and connected to a Node and sent an eMail. Other than that one encounter, I am clueless of what all WinLink can do and how ARES utilizes it.

Thanks in advance... 73, Dave K4EET

Hi again Dave,

Yep, I agree ...... there is the old radio BBS aspect that some people still use but as far as ARES goes, I think you're right in that it's just used for message traffic and things like that. Where the station needs that piece of paper or the info should not go over the air. I know when I was sailing the popular app was/is Sail Mail and that's mostly for weather maps and messages when at sea.

That's also one of the reasons I'd like to get ( now that I know PACTOR is what I need ) I don't think packet TNC's are going to cut it. However, there is the choice of a SignalLink for $130.00 bucks or a Pactor 4 modem for $1700.00 ...... Gee, let me think about that for a bit huh ? (grin)

I'll snoop around but there's no way I'm dropping that amount of money for something used for our rare emergencies. The group who is
setting up this system does say a Signallink will be OK.

Cheers'
Dave

 

[AK9R]

...a local ham asked me the other day what a real practical purpose of WinLink would be for somebody that is not involved in emergency communications.

Winlink gives you the ability to send/receive email messages to/from people who are connected to the Internet when you don't have Internet access yourself. Aside from auxiliary communications, it has some popularity among private sailors of ocean-going vessels so they can send/receive emails to/from friends and family while they are at sea and don't have Internet access themselves.

 

[MUTNAV]

If I remember right, PACTOR 3 and 4 (at least) modems are only sold by one company due to proprietary technology (which seems a little anti-amateur radio), but that is what I think the situation is.

Thanks
Joel

 

[K4EET]

@W9BU and @ALTARADIOBOY, thanks for the replies. I am getting more smarts every day from folks like you two! Problem is, my grey matter upstairs leaks! :EEK: :EEK:

 

[AK9R]

If I remember right, PACTOR 3 and 4 (at least) modems are only sold by one company due to proprietary technology (which seems a little anti-amateur radio), but that is what I think the situation is.

That's my understanding, too.