ABQ Metro

[MrAstroSaber]

Yep affiliated with the system, wasting his time coming on here defending the decision

I am not affiliated with the state or city, but I do Service radio recorders and I do know a thing or two about recordings. Enough to know that they don't take any space at all. I also am familiar with public records requests and know that if you file one they have to by federal law provide that info. I also know if enough people and media file them for the recording of main line channels that are encrypted maybe the city will see that it is to much of a burden to remain encrypted or maybe not. But I can also say my entire family is law enforcement and I fully support departments making the switch to encryption.

Sandia PD fully encrypted
City of Roswell same
Sandoval County jail
Lee County
Hobbs police

Just some of the departments that have made the switch in NM.

All of El Paso County TX is encrypted

So yeah it sucks we can't hear them. But we are the few that enjoy scanning. For the right reasons. We not media pukes or scum bag criminals. It blows but the world we live in. It's better for departments to move to full time encryption.

FYI. State police are watching and seeing how this goes and rumors are they plan to also make the switch soon to full time encryption as well.

 

[NMPhillieFan]

By law they have to provide radio recordings if you submit a public records request. Also recordings are keep for very long time. Years. Why because audio recordings take up little to no space. Has nothing to do with transparency. Just because you can listen on a scanner make the police more transparent??? Same radio traffic as before just encryption being used to keep offers safer.

It is true, they have to provide the recorded audio. However, they have 3 days to acknowledge your request and then another 15 days to provide the information. They advise, 911 audio, lapel camera and radio audio can take longer. That does nothing for the news media. FOIA requested information will likely be two weeks old, or more, until you receive it. Good luck getting all of that information for free.

 

[KE5ZBG]

In this case it's called an IPRA request, but same difference.

 

[ShyFlyer]

It stops the media from showing up instantly and it stops wackers from showing up who just start filming with there cell phone

You would think, but the marked units with all the flashy lights still attract attention.

My agency (and neighboring ones as well) jumped on the bandwagon some time ago and there has been no decrease in media and "wackers" showing up to the "juicy" calls. Those types have cell phones and the call their buddies anyway, so fully encrypted radio traffic is nothing more than a placebo.

last it stops the bad guys from listening on there cell phones to the live feed

Unless we're talking tactical situations or building/event security, there is little that "the bad guys" could glean from dispatch traffic to gain the advantage over Officers. That is assuming, of course, departments are making proper use of MDTs, tac channels, etc (which should never be unencrypted).

They aren’t going to give you any recordings without a FOIA request or a subpoena.

By law they have to provide radio recordings if you submit a public records request.

Yep, they have to provide it to anyone who requests it. However, and this important, they can (and will) find ways to delay releasing the information as allowed for by law/department policy. If the information is part of a active investigation, expect the information (recordings, transcripts, video) to be withheld until the investigation is complete. That could take a while. For an example, it took me just over two months to obtain the report on a case in which I was the victim. That's because it was in the hands of Investigations and wasn't going to be released until they were happy all the bases were covered. One should also note that I'm an employee of said agency and requested the information via public channels (as required by my department's policy).

 

[WX4JCW]

You would think, but the marked units with all the flashy lights still attract attention.

My agency (and neighboring ones as well) jumped on the bandwagon some time ago and there has been no decrease in media and "wackers" showing up to the "juicy" calls. Those types have cell phones and the call their buddies anyway, so fully encrypted radio traffic is nothing more than a placebo.


Unless we're talking tactical situations or building/event security, there is little that "the bad guys" could glean from dispatch traffic to gain the advantage over Officers. That is assuming, of course, departments are making proper use of MDTs, tac channels, etc (which should never be unencrypted).



Yep, they have to provide it to anyone who requests it. However, and this important, they can (and will) find ways to delay releasing the information as allowed for by law/department policy. If the information is part of a active investigation, expect the information (recordings, transcripts, video) to be withheld until the investigation is complete. That could take a while. For an example, it took me just over two months to obtain the report on a case in which I was the victim. That's because it was in the hands of Investigations and wasn't going to be released until they were happy all the bases were covered. One should also note that I'm an employee of said agency and requested the information via public channels (as required by my department's policy).

This right here, someone who gets it

 

[Rad-1]

“Encryption is a placebo” I like that 👍🏻 good analogy.

 

[Rad-1]

In reference to your statement about recordings not taking up any space. This isn’t necessarily accurate. It depends on what format the recordings are archived. If they are .WAV raw audio format (non compressed) they can be quite large especially if they are 24/7 365 recordings. Yes, allot smaller if they are compressed down ina different audio format and exported. But usually when dealing with legal related digital data things need to be in raw format and contain a hash value (MD5 or SHA1) to be admissible to the court to meet derivative evidence standards. You need to get your facts straight here before making statements like that!
Bottom like is it’s gonna be allot harder to get this recorded audio then one would think. I would bet money they don’t archive at all. This will only become an issue if ever challenged in court related to a trial and the records are needed by the defense and prosecution can’t provide them.

 

[Rad-1]

I am not affiliated with the state or city, but I do Service radio recorders and I do know a thing or two about recordings. Enough to know that they don't take any space at all. I also am familiar with public records requests and know that if you file one they have to by federal law provide that info. I also know if enough people and media file them for the recording of main line channels that are encrypted maybe the city will see that it is to much of a burden to remain encrypted or maybe not. But I can also say my entire family is law enforcement and I fully support departments making the switch to encryption.

Sandia PD fully encrypted
City of Roswell same
Sandoval County jail
Lee County
Hobbs police

Just some of the departments that have made the switch in NM.

All of El Paso County TX is encrypted

So yeah it sucks we can't hear them. But we are the few that enjoy scanning. For the right reasons. We not media pukes or scum bag criminals. It blows but the world we live in. It's better for departments to move to full time encryption.

FYI. State police are watching and seeing how this goes and rumors are they plan to also make the switch soon to full time encryption as well.

In reference to your statement above about recordings not taking up any space. This isn’t necessarily accurate. It depends on what format the recordings are archived. If they are .WAV raw audio format (non compressed) they can be quite large especially if they are 24/7 365 recordings. Yes, allot smaller if they are compressed down in a different audio format and exported. But usually when dealing with legal related digital media requests things need to be in raw format and contain a hash value (MD5 or SHA1) to be admissible to the court to meet derivative evidence standards. You need to get your facts straight here before making statements like that!
Bottom like is it’s gonna be allot harder to get this recorded audio then one would think. I would bet money they don’t archive at all. This will only become an issue if ever challenged in court related to a trial and the records are needed by the defense and prosecution can’t provide them. At the very least the average citizen would need to provide a hard drive or other removable media large enough for them to provide the data to meet the request. Most NM citizens aren’t going to do this or have the resources for this.

Also, in regards to shutting out the media and opporating a gestapo like police force with no accountability when you lost the contract to Motorola weren’t you the one that ran complaining to the media about it and how unfair it was? Seems very hypocritical to me I’m just saying!

 

[MrAstroSaber]

In reference to your statement above about recordings not taking up any space. This isn’t necessarily accurate. It depends on what format the recordings are archived. If they are .WAV raw audio format (non compressed) they can be quite large especially if they are 24/7 365 recordings. Yes, allot smaller if they are compressed down in a different audio format and exported. But usually when dealing with legal related digital media requests things need to be in raw format and contain a hash value (MD5 or SHA1) to be admissible to the court to meet derivative evidence standards. You need to get your facts straight here before making statements like that!
Bottom like is it’s gonna be allot harder to get this recorded audio then one would think. I would bet money they don’t archive at all. This will only become an issue if ever challenged in court related to a trial and the records are needed by the defense and prosecution can’t provide them. At the very least the average citizen would need to provide a hard drive or other removable media large enough for them to provide the data to meet the request. Most NM citizens aren’t going to do this or have the resources for this.

Also, in regards to shutting out the media and opporating a gestapo like police force with no accountability when you lost the contract to Motorola weren’t you the one that ran complaining to the media about it and how unfair it was? Seems very hypocritical to me I’m just saying!

Everyone losses when Motorola gets involved. And the media came to us when the city bailed on buying local from 2 shops in town with better pricing and local NM employees. As for the recording, their are many formats but in today's world with everything being digital and compressed they don't take up much room. And yeah encrypting the traffic makes the media's job that much harder. All the media is good for is spreading fear and talking trash. I would know right like you said.

 

[Rad-1]

How is the media informing citizens that their tax dollars weren't spent to support a local business and keep tax money inside the state spreading fear or talking trash? Maybe the media you watch does exactly that. There is a difference in the news and the talk heads on the 24/7 cable news shows.

I for one was glad they ran the story and didn't now anything about the issue until I saw it. This is how encryption harms citizens. How can a citizen know about an issue and "request the audio" if they don't know it occured. This is a simple form of autocracy. This is exactly how corruption is allowed to flourish.

 

[Rad-1]

Your not gonna get me to agree with you here on this encryption issue Captain Codeplug. I think it’s complete hog wash that an agency can’t learn to switch channels when they need to go secure on a multi million dollar radio system and keep the dispatch clear. I am pro law enforcement and have allot of sympathy toward the officers here but I just don’t understand why it needs to be an all or nothing approach. Officers not being able to learn to switch channels is a weak argument in my opinion. And this whole just encrypt everything approach by these agencies is an overreach. There needs to be allot more public outcry and outrage about this in Abq. Next thing will be trying to take our lawful guns away from us here in Abq because officers want to feel more secure! Not buying it…

 

[MrAstroSaber]

Your not gonna get me to agree with you here on this encryption issue Captain Codeplug. I think it’s complete hog wash that an agency can’t learn to switch channels when they need to go secure on a multi million dollar radio system and keep the dispatch clear. I am pro law enforcement and have allot of sympathy toward the officers here but I just don’t understand why it needs to be an all or nothing approach. Officers not being able to learn to switch channels is a weak argument in my opinion. And this whole just encrypt everything approach by these agencies is an overreach. There needs to be allot more public outcry and outrage about this in Abq. Next thing will be trying to take our lawful guns away from us here in Abq because officers want to feel more secure! Not buying it…

That's a far stretch. Let's agree to disagree here. I am firm believer in encryption and encourage everyone to use it. Now as it becomes more and more affordable. I think all traffic should be encrypted for public safety. Law, fire, and ems. Has nothing to do with some wild conspiracy you have cooked up in your mind. Just safer for everyone. Yes the flashing lights will attract people media who ever. But will slow them down. I fully support the decision to switch and will continue to recommend others as well make the switch. Encryption keys can be shared between departments and agencies and happens all the time. People are just upset they can't hear APD anymore. But it will pass and you will long forget about it and we will all find something else to listen too. We always do

 

[Rad-1]

I know one thing if they encrypt fire and EMS here too I am out of the hobby!

I’m sure your not bothered by it and support it because you have access to the encryption keys if you are working as a contractor for the city!!!

I will also remember who the politicians were that were involved on Nov 3 and I suggest everyone else here on the forum do the same if you are against this nonsense. This is the only way we as a hobby are going to be able to change this policy.

Encrypting everything doesn’t help any department or politicians public trust issue I know that much.

 

[WX4JCW]

i fear we are being trolled

 

[ShyFlyer]

Just safer for everyone.

No, it's not. It feels safer, but outside of a few specific scenarios (as I mentioned above) it is a placebo and is actually born out of a desire to shut out the public as much as current law allows. It shouldn't come as a surprise either, given the exponentially increasing scrutiny public safety agencies are under. Some of it justified, most of it the result of people just looking for self-righteous vengeance.

Encryption keys can be shared between departments and agencies and happens all the time.

This is true. My own agency does this with it's "neighbor." However, ask any IT professional, especially one that manages a corporate network, about sharing passwords, or having a common shared login ID, and then stand back as they explode in anger and disgust. The more people with access to a key, the more insecure it becomes.

 

[Rad-1]

You can have the best of both worlds here guys. Switch to Tac when you need to be secure. Keep dispatch clear! 100% across the board encryption is not Democratic it’s authoritarianism! I think any contractor local or not peddling this “nonsense” to pubic safety should be banned in NM and required to take a constitutional law class. This isn’t a conspiracy theory.

 

[CorwinScansNM]

You can have the best of both worlds here guys. Switch to Tac when you need to be secure. Keep dispatch clear! 100% across the board

Perfect & nice statement Rad-1. I have to agree with you 100%. I myself am very Public Safety aware in Eastern Bernalillo County & have been for over 19 years using my own Public Safety Scanners & Antennas as a Hobby. This mainly for safety measures & mainly for hearing when there is a Smoke Check or a Fire in my local Forest near my Home & now, possibly full statewide Encryption coming on all TGID's/Channels that are on the NM DTRS!!!

 

[Rad-1]

Djones87401, how many pizzas, steaks, or cases of beer (your choice) would it take for you to leave the encryption box unchecked and overlook this? I am from Chicago originally so I have to ask! 🤣

 

[Rad-1]

How about a box of Cohiba cigars? Would that do it?!? 😎

 

[mrohrbacher]