ACARS question

Status
Not open for further replies.

KY1K

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Do ACARS transmissions from aircraft always contain the latitude and longitude of the aircraft?

I'm looking for a way to monitor band openings on 2 meters, and since hte aircraft band is relatively close to the 2 meter band, I was thinking about trying to decode ACARS transmissions.

Is ACARS still in use or is the mode being phased out?

Thanks,

Art
 

ka3jjz

Wiki Admin Emeritus
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
25,902
Reaction score
2,588
Location
Bowie, Md.
D

DaveNF2G

Guest
To answer the other part of the question, ACARS location transmissions have the lat/lon info, but they are only sent occasionally. Most of the traffic has nothing to do with the location of the plane.
 

KY1K

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
Thanks Dave,

Obviously my hope was to have every transmission carry the GPS coordinates of the aircraft at that time-since it's automated, it would be awesome for my purposes.

Can you give me a rough idea about what percentages of transmissions contain latitude and longitude data? 3 percent, 10 percent??

Thanks,

Art
 

BJ_NORTON

Member
Joined
Dec 19, 2002
Messages
407
Reaction score
0
Location
Las Vegas
Here's a cool site I came across a while back: http://www.mountainlake.k12.mn.us/ham/aprs/path.cgi?map=na it shows real time activity of APRS. Since every packet contains Lat/Lon and the recieving stations know thier lat/lon it can show band openings. Right now it looks like the entire East coast is open north to south.
path.cgi.png


also you might check out dxinfocentre.com where the guy has forcasted openings just like what you would see on the weather channel
 

ka3jjz

Wiki Admin Emeritus
Joined
Jul 22, 2002
Messages
25,902
Reaction score
2,588
Location
Bowie, Md.
I have both of these links, and much more in the wiki link I posted in my first message.

The wiki doesn't bite, folks - really <grin> 73s Mike
 

SCANdal

Silent Key
Joined
Feb 20, 2003
Messages
935
Reaction score
1
Location
Hudson Valley, NY
Thinking out loud here...

Gentlemen,

Please correct me if I'm wrong, since I only dabble in air monitoring...

Art, I'm curious if your proposed methods, both here and on the related ATIS thread, would be a valid test to check for FM band openings. Since aviation radio traffic is passed in AM and most 2 meter ham traffic is passed in FM, is one a good predictor of another's propagation? Or is the difference between the two modulation schemes negligable? Also, aren't the elevations of the transmitters you're monitoring for ACARS is so much higher then your typical ground station - thus potentially skewing your results?

The method I use (admittedly limited, but doesn't tie you to a computer) is to monitor the seven NOAA weather (or is it now "All Hazards"?) radio frequencies. All are transmitted in the FM mode. The lat and longs of the transmitters are fixed. If I hear activity on a normally unused local frequency, doubling on a locally used freq, or - better still - doubling of distant stations on normally locally unused frequencies, I listen for the eventual station ID and have a pretty good idea that the VHF high band is open in that general direction.

I applaude your creative thinking,

SCANdal
 
Last edited:

KY1K

Member
Joined
Sep 8, 2007
Messages
5
Reaction score
0
SCANdal said:
Gentlemen,
Since aviation radio traffic is passed in AM and most 2 meter ham traffic is passed in FM, is one a good predictor of another's propagation? Or is the difference between the two modulation schemes negligable? Also, aren't the elevations of the transmitters you're monitoring for ACARS is so much higher then your typical ground station - thus potentially skewing your results?

SCANdal



Hi Scan,

The mode doesn't enter into an opening. FM is a rather poor mode for hearing weak signals, but if the band is open, then any modes reception will be enhanced.

Several have mistakenly assumed I was trying to predict tropo openings. In fact, I am trying to predict when sporadic E skip is likely to be present and if so, what region is the opening to. Sporadic E can be very selective on vhf, but the fact that an E skip opening exists between Maine and Tennessee does not mean that there will be an opening between New Hampshire and Kentucky.

So, an ACARS transmission that identifies an aircraft over Georgia probably means that there is an opening between Maine (my State) and Georgia. As pointed out by several users though, not all ACARS transmissions from aircraft identify the actual latitude and longitude of the aircraft.

The fact that an aircraft might is at 40,000 feet doesn't make any difference in fact......since the reflecting layers in the atmosphere are much higher than that. Since an aircraft at 40,000 feet has a radio horizon of about 200 miles, any aircraft that I hear that are farther away than 200 miles are being reflected by some sort reflective layer within the atmosphere. So, a transmission from the ground or from the air amounts to about the same thing as long as the path is longer than 200 miles or so.

There are 2 types of skip that happen on VHF, although there are variants on each type.

Tropo reception is common in the Summer months, it makes vhf stations that are 200 to 600 miles away suddenly receivable. The signals are relatively weak, sometimes just above the noise. Tropo reception is the type of reception most of us have observed. Tropo enhancement can last for days at a time.

However, I'm after sporadic E. It is very selective and very rare. But, when it happens, signals between 1000 to 2000 miles away suddenly become extremely strong-like S9 or stronger. Sporadic E openings last for minutes to several hours, the vast majority of these openings are less than 1 hour long.

When you can predict a sporadic E opening, it's like hitting a home run! It's so rare and so short. But, if you're on the ball and in front of your radio, you can work station on vhf that are 1000 to 2000 miles away with just a few watts and a modest antenna. So, the lure of sporadic E is great, which is why I became interested in monitoring ACARS.

Hope this helps explain the situation a little better.

Regards,

Art
 
Last edited:
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top