Add system with both 700/800 and VHF to G5

[K9KLC]

In MO, there is the MOSWIN system. I'd like to do as I have with other systems add it manually to the PPS. When I click on the Add (in E2) it gives me several options however I have to pick between 700/800 or VHF. How can I add a system that has both on it? OR, can I even do that? I was going to try and set up Full spectrum scan on that system but to successfully do that, I'd actually need both in there I think. I know I can scan one at a time but I was wondering if there is a way to set up both? I use the word scan loosely I understand it's NOT a scanner. Just curious if anyone has done this.
I have added sites from the RR data base import, that had both but again this was to test FSS and see if it worked as it did in IL on the system I did there on only 700/800.

 

[RaleighGuy]

I do not believe a mixed system on FSS is possible, but if it is you'd have to have a VHF G5 and see if it will allow you to add all 3 bands, 700, 800 & VFH in the frequency ranges.

 

[Hit_Factor]

In MO, there is the MOSWIN system. I'd like to do as I have with other systems add it manually to the PPS. When I click on the Add (in E2) it gives me several options however I have to pick between 700/800 or VHF. How can I add a system that has both on it? OR, can I even do that? I was going to try and set up Full spectrum scan on that system but to successfully do that, I'd actually need both in there I think. I know I can scan one at a time but I was wondering if there is a way to set up both? I use the word scan loosely I understand it's NOT a scanner. Just curious if anyone has done this.
I have added sites from the RR data base import, that had both but again this was to test FSS and see if it worked as it did in IL on the system I did there on only 700/800.

I saw this coming when you said you ordered a G5. I wanted to do the same thing, ended up selling my G5 and bought a G4. I use an Icom transceiver for the conventional VHF items I want to monitor. You need a scanner to do what you want, presumably a SDS100 to somewhat follow the capabilities of the G5.

One knob position for a trunked system, the next knob position for the conventional VHF.

 

[hazrat8990]

If the system is in the DB it will be a lot easier to get everything entered. As for your question about being able to monitor 700/800MHz and VHF, the answer is yes. As long as everything is part of the same P25 system, the pager will lock onto whichever site is programmed and gather all of the info it needs about neighboring sites. The key for this to work is that you need to have the WACN and SYSID programmed and either have all of the sites entered, or use a single site with FF & FF set as the site info.

In my area there are mostly VHF sites, but the pager will automatically switch to 800MHz whenever there's one close, even if it only has a single VHF frequency programmed in.

 

[K9KLC]

I saw this coming when you said you ordered a G5

LOL but of course! As I stated in another post, I like to learn and make any device be all it can be!

If the system is in the DB it will be a lot easier to get everything entered. As for your question about being able to monitor 700/800MHz and VHF, the answer is yes. As long as everything is part of the same P25 system, the pager will lock onto whichever site is programmed and gather all of the info it needs about neighboring sites. The key for this to work is that you need to have the WACN and SYSID programmed and either have all of the sites entered, or use a single site with FF & FF set as the site info.

Ok, thanks. It is in the DB, and I am going to MO Sunday so we'll see what happens. I did import the DB sites along the way (not going but about 90 minutes down I-44) but we'll see what happens. I imported both 700/800 and VHF so we'll see how that works. About a month ago, I did use my G5 on VHF and the G4 on 700/800 along I-70 from KC back home and while that worked (and well actually) I'd like to see if one device might get it done this time.

I do not believe a mixed system on FSS is possible, but if it is you'd have to have a VHF G5 and see if it will allow you to add all 3 bands, 700, 800 & VFH in the frequency ranges.

I have 2 G5's in VHF. Eventually I'll get one for UHF but right now, the VHF model is more in line with what I actually try and monitor. If this trip works on what I have programmed from the DB, I will do a test knob position next trip and see if it will let me enter at least 3 things in FSS and try that. Although it's asking me when I try to manually create one what band perhaps it will let me do that. I tried importing one site then deleting the CC's but every time I've tried that the PPS just crashes and won't save what I've done.

In my area there are mostly VHF sites, but the pager will automatically switch to 800MHz whenever there's one close, even if it only has a single VHF frequency programmed in.

So let me make sure I have this correct, you set up FSS with only one VHF frequency (I guess as the CC?) and it uses that to find the correct "channel" even if it's a 800 one?

 

[K9KLC]

One knob position for a trunked system, the next knob position for the conventional VHF.

They're not conventional VHF, they're all part of the same trunked system.

 

[K9KLC]

If the system is in the DB it will be a lot easier to get everything entered. As for your question about being able to monitor 700/800MHz and VHF, the answer is yes. As long as everything is part of the same P25 system, the pager will lock onto whichever site is programmed and gather all of the info it needs about neighboring sites. The key for this to work is that you need to have the WACN and SYSID programmed and either have all of the sites entered, or use a single site with FF & FF set as the site info.

I was in Cheyenne a couple of months ago, and I was able to program the G5 for the VHF stuff on the drive up from Greeley. I didn't have (or know) about FSS at that time. I used the VHF on the G5 stuff and 700/800 on the G4. Seems that actually I had fair coverage on the way up with a few drop outs. How are you setting up a single site with the WACN and SYSID. Are you adding it manually or importing one and changing that site ID to FF? I've tried importing one site and changing that but when I try and delete the system channels the PPS actually crashes. How are you doing it if I could ask? I tried to manually create one earlier I was needing to pick which one to use. Thanks

 

[K9KLC]

You need a scanner to do what you want, presumably a SDS100 to somewhat follow the capabilities of the G5.

I had the opportunity to test for a couple of hours an SDS 100, I'd never use one of those for conventional VHF, I do have for at home a BCD 536 and old Relm scanner that shine on VHF analog. I also have several handhelds I can take (really too many to even make my wife happy) and yep that's the way I'd go about conventional analog if needed. If I ever needed conventional P-25 I do have one VHF handheld that does that but man it's a brick in weight. We have some DMR in my area and when needed (even thought the G5 has it) I still prefer something with an external antenna, I'd probably take one of my /\/\ 6550's depending on the band needed. Thanks for the reminder though, it's important for people that might be reading this to know the limitations of the Unication's.

 

[hazrat8990]

So let me make sure I have this correct, you set up FSS with only one VHF frequency (I guess as the CC?) and it uses that to find the correct "channel" even if it's a 800 one?

That is correct! Back when I first got the G5 back in 2017, I lived in Glenrock which has an 800MHz site. I was only interested in picking up the Morton Hill site north of Douglas, so the 150.775MHz control frequency was the only one I had programmed in at the time. WACN (BEE00) and System ID (1A4) were programmed in correctly. For the site list, I had entered the RFSS and site ID as FF for both. I noticed that it would lock onto the site for a while (which was very weak), and then switch over to the 800MHz site. Had I entered the correct RFSS (2) and site ID (4), it would have just stayed locked on until it went "out of range".

By doing this little experiment, I made the discovery that once the G5 locks onto a control channel, it will follow an entire P25 system by gathering the info it needs from neighboring sites. I have verified that it works, and was able to follow the system across the entire state while driving to Utah. The only drawback is, when you power it off, or switch knob positions while away from the site that's programmed, it will be "out of range" until you are able to receive the original site.

 

[K9KLC]

That is correct! Back when I first got the G5 back in 2017, I lived in Glenrock which has an 800MHz site. I was only interested in picking up the Morton Hill site north of Douglas, so the 150.775MHz control frequency was the only one I had programmed in at the time. WACN (BEE00) and System ID (1A4) were programmed in correctly. For the site list, I had entered the RFSS and site ID as FF for both. I noticed that it would lock onto the site for a while (which was very weak), and then switch over to the 800MHz site. Had I entered the correct RFSS (2) and site ID (4), it would have just stayed locked on until it went "out of range".

By doing this little experiment, I made the discovery that once the G5 locks onto a control channel, it will follow an entire P25 system by gathering the info it needs from neighboring sites. I have verified that it works, and was able to follow the system across the entire state while driving to Utah. The only drawback is, when you power it off, or switch knob positions while away from the site that's programmed, it will be "out of range" until you are able to receive the original site.

Ok thanks. That's interesting. Looks like I have more playing to do. I live in IL but often to go MO which has a VHF/700-800 system. Again, thanks. While these things only do "one site at a time", it appears they are pretty capable devices and while you can't be choosy, receiving anything while traveling is better than receiving nothing. I took my FSS in my G5 on Starcom 21 (the Illinois system) and in my other one (ya ok the wife's now) I had sites programmed in. I noticed for the most part, the FFS did follow the programmed one but there were occasions it locked onto a different site and I obviously got some different talk groups. From this, I was able to figure out what I actually wanted in the programmed one for the next time we go up that way. Thanks again for all your help, I truly appreciate it.

 

[bdzig]

I inquired to Unication about this issue earlier this year, specificly for MOSWIN. The G5 will only monitor either a VHF trunking system or a 700/800 system, but not a combined system. For MOSWIN, you will need to setup two systems, one for the VHF and one for the 700-800 frequencies. Depending on where you are at in the state will determine what is the best side of the system to listen to.

 

[K9KLC]

I inquired to Unication about this issue earlier this year, specificly for MOSWIN. The G5 will only monitor either a VHF trunking system or a 700/800 system, but not a combined system. For MOSWIN, you will need to setup two systems, one for the VHF and one for the 700-800 frequencies. Depending on where you are at in the state will determine what is the best side of the system to listen to.

Ok thanks. I did that with two different pagers when I came across I-70 a couple of months ago. I had my G4 on the 700-800 stuff and the G5 on VHF. While that obviously worked, I was trying to accomplish this with only one device. I'm getting mixed feedback here so I'll do some testing and see what happens. Again thank you for your information.

 

[hazrat8990]

I inquired to Unication about this issue earlier this year, specificly for MOSWIN. The G5 will only monitor either a VHF trunking system or a 700/800 system, but not a combined system. For MOSWIN, you will need to setup two systems, one for the VHF and one for the 700-800 frequencies. Depending on where you are at in the state will determine what is the best side of the system to listen to.

The drop menu only gives you options with tight band limits, so you would need to split it into separate systems. However, if you import MOSWIN directly from RR instead of creating a new system from the drop menu, it will allow you to have the entire system in one piece.

Notice that the band info is blank on the main screen, and the control channel popup shows a mix of VHF & 700/800MHz.

 

[bdzig]

First, I don't import from Radio Reference. Second, even if the software does import the system, be really careful with dumping it into the pager. If Unication says that the pagers weren't setup to take a dual-band system, you may throw an error. Given the past issues with the G5, I would not tempt fate.

 

[hazrat8990]

First, I don't import from Radio Reference. Second, even if the software does import the system, be really careful with dumping it into the pager. If Unication says that the pagers weren't setup to take a dual-band system, you may throw an error. Given the past issues with the G5, I would not tempt fate.

Not sure where you're getting all of this bad info, but you are unnecessarily complicating things and only creating a headache for yourself.

 

[K9KLC]

The drop menu only gives you options with tight band limits, so you would need to split it into separate systems. However, if you import MOSWIN directly from RR instead of creating a new system from the drop menu, it will allow you to have the entire system in one piece.

Notice that the band info is blank on the main screen, and the control channel popup shows a mix of VHF & 700/800MHz.
View attachment 173665

The import was what I did. If the roads are clear I may know tomorrow if it worked. The only caveat is there may be a 700/800 site that covers me most the way there so I may not know for sure how it actually works. I may set some stuff and make a day trip in a few weeks where I know it will need to switch between 700/800 and VHF if I don't see it tomorrow. The PPS shows both the vhf and 700/800 frequencies were imported.

 

[K9KLC]

First, I don't import from Radio Reference. Second, even if the software does import the system, be really careful with dumping it into the pager. If Unication says that the pagers weren't setup to take a dual-band system, you may throw an error. Given the past issues with the G5, I would not tempt fate.

The drop menu only gives you options with tight band limits, so you would need to split it into separate systems. However, if you import MOSWIN directly from RR instead of creating a new system from the drop menu, it will allow you to have the entire system in one piece.

Notice that the band info is blank on the main screen, and the control channel popup shows a mix of VHF & 700/800MHz.
View attachment 173665

Also I guess I need to ask, I only have one system on "C1" but have a whole lot more under "E2". that's where all the stuff I seem to import goes. (or so it seems) Does it matter out of the 15 or so things I have in E2, only one is in C1? I had never been on tab C1 prior to looking at your screen shots. Thanks.

 

[hazrat8990]

The screenshot is from the resource manager. After a quick download, I just put it there for the purpose of demonstrating that it works. The import feature will either put it there, or directly into your profile on tab E2.

 

[K9KLC]

The screenshot is from the resource manager. After a quick download, I just put it there for the purpose of demonstrating that it works. The import feature will either put it there, or directly into your profile on tab E2.

Okay thank you. Ya it's putting it directly in E2 when I use the import on the top of the PPS.

 

[K9KLC]

First, I don't import from Radio Reference. Second, even if the software does import the system, be really careful with dumping it into the pager. If Unication says that the pagers weren't setup to take a dual-band system, you may throw an error. Given the past issues with the G5, I would not tempt fate.

For what it's worth, it looks like "according to the WIKI (I know I know )" that was fixed in 1.32 which wasn't released but one could only hope that starting at 1.33 onward that was still in there. If I could ask who did you actually contact when you refer to Unication? Again, not being argumentative, only trying to get to the bottom of this. I had someone send me a PPS when I got my first G5 and I noticed he had both VHF and 700/800 in a grouping of stuff he did. I'll have to message him and see if this actually was working on his G5.
Also, you don't import from Radio Reference, if I could ask "why"? To me even though I've done a bunch of stuff manually, this has certainly speeded up some parts of the programming at least for me in my area, as far as sites and such are concerned. Yes early on I had to add another frequency to both my G5 and a Scanner I had manually but by and large, it's worked pretty well. Just curious. Thanks.