Aircraft frequencies in Yosemite National Park page

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lbfd09

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I was taking a closer look at the Aircraft frequencies, and it led me to three entries in the YNP page:
Yosemite National Park Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Under the 'East NPS Operation' subsection, CH14-16 refer to the same frequency (136.07500), the mode is FM and the service tag is Aircraft.

...so...
1. Why is this duplicated?
2. Why is the mode FM in this band?
Guessing that with this BS no duplication rule that all of the national caches and simular loads-same frequencies someone GOOFED!

I am sorry I cannot find my various loads for the park. There is a ranger, fire, and east side load (for these 3 different users) as the 3 common loads. Some in the law side in Yosemite have a special law load also I understand.

I want to remember that some channels were capable of monitoring the A/C, thin in addition to CALSTAR and the various fire air ops frequencies.

Sorry I can't be of any help - maybe Ex-Smokey will rescue us here.
 

lbfd09

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I guess I should add and clarify that the parks have their own helicopters that normally use the park nets for most of their traffic. those air frequencies you see there were put in for rangers and rescuers to monitor incoming and out-bound aircraft to their incident.
 

SCPD

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The listing of "East NPS Operations" is bogus. I've asked the database administrators to remove it and it is still shown. Devils Postpile (DPP) was a unit of Sequoia-Kings National Parks (KNP) and not Yosemite NP. DPP has not been a unit of Yosemite even though, in the summer, it is much closer to Yosemite than KNP. In the winter with Tioga Pass closed KNP is closer. For a couple of years now DPP has been its own unit and the position of Managing Park Ranger that reported to the KNP superintendent has been changed to a full park superintendent. 171.750 was the backcountry net frequency for KNP until the recent changes made for narrow banding and digital operation. Devils Post

I worked very closely with DPP in my 10 years on the Mammoth Ranger District. DPP is surrounded by the Inyo National Forest and the two agencies work together on a daily basis. I knew their radio program. DPP is dispatched by the Owens Valley Interagency Communications Center. Other than their own simplex frequency of 171.750, all the rest were Forest Service frequencies, those of Mono County, CLEMARS and national SAR. DPP consists of about 800 acres and does not have the need for any special air frequencies. The Inyo responded to any fires on the monument and they don't have any special VHF-AM frequencies either.

Finally, have you ever heard of a handheld radio that has both VHF FM and AM frequencies?
 

inigo88

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Often times when channels are left unprogrammed they show up as the lowest frequency in the frequency range of the radio, rather than as 0.0000. I've been tricked by "136.0000" several times before I finally caught on. I don't know why the techs chose 136.075, but I am guessing it is simply an "unprogrammed" placeholder. It would be useless for communicating with aircraft because the civilian aircraft band is 118-136 MHz AM. Besides, that's what the YNP A/G is for.

Also while DPP is certainly not part of YNP, they definitely have the channel in their radios for mutual aid, along with USFS, Mariposa County SO, etc.
 

ecps92

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It looks to me as it was just some made-up Tag Info as we all know MOST radios will only do Only FM or Only AM. IMHO

Looks like the Mode field needs to be updated correctly, if it's a REAL used channel vs a place holder from a Blank channel entry

I was taking a closer look at the Aircraft frequencies, and it led me to three entries in the YNP page:
Yosemite National Park Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Under the 'East NPS Operation' subsection, CH14-16 refer to the same frequency (136.07500), the mode is FM and the service tag is Aircraft.

...so...
1. Why is this duplicated?
2. Why is the mode FM in this band?
 
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LAflyer

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Inigo, for reference the VHF aircraft band is now up to 138Mhz.

Spectrum was expanded when it was agreed to utilize the additional 2Mhz in conjunction with mobile satellite services (and TV broadcast in some countries)
This came out of WRC/ITU conference in the late 1990s.
 

nd5y

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Inigo, for reference the VHF aircraft band is now up to 138Mhz.

Spectrum was expanded when it was agreed to utilize the additional 2Mhz in conjunction with mobile satellite services (and TV broadcast in some countries)
This came out of WRC/ITU conference in the late 1990s.
The aircraft band goes up to 137 MHz.
The 137-138 MHz satellite band is NOT used for TV broadcasting.
http://www.fcc.gov/oet/spectrum/table/fcctable.pdf
 

LAflyer

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137-138Mhz was indeed used for Television broadcast -- In some OTHER countries as I stated in my prior response.

For example, TV broadcast in the band delayed the introduction the 2Mhz for aviation use in Australia.
 

SCPD

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Often times when channels are left unprogrammed they show up as the lowest frequency in the frequency range of the radio, rather than as 0.0000. I've been tricked by "136.0000" several times before I finally caught on. I don't know why the techs chose 136.075, but I am guessing it is simply an "unprogrammed" placeholder. It would be useless for communicating with aircraft because the civilian aircraft band is 118-136 MHz AM. Besides, that's what the YNP A/G is for.

Also while DPP is certainly not part of YNP, they definitely have the channel in their radios for mutual aid, along with USFS, Mariposa County SO, etc.
Devils Postpile has Mono County frequencies in their radios but not Mariposa. Although Devils Postpile and the surrounding portion of the Inyo National Forest are located in Madera County there are no services provided by them in this area. The Postpile has CLEMARS, Mono Sheriff, Fire and EMS and the Mammoth PD along with MRA or Mountain Rescue Association (SAR) on 155.160. All the rest are Inyo NF frequencies along with NIFC tacs 1-3, air to ground, and Air Guard (168.625). In the time since I retired they have probably added R5 project and possibly the new federal government itinerants. I don't think they had the old ones (163.100 and 168.350) when I was there. The Inyo NF did not use them and still doesn't. I don't think they had the Sierra NF in their radios either as it is pretty tough to key into SNF repeaters from the bottom of the valley.

DPP did not have Yosemite NP frequencies in their radios. You can't key up any Yosemite repeaters from the valley bottom or on top of Mammoth Mountain and Minaret Vista area. Although the Inyo NF responded mutual aid to Yosemite (I was on one for two days once - a LE incident), Yosemite does not respond to DPP. The Inyo NF does and every great once in a while Death Valley NP would sent a ranger up on a pre-planned basis. Forest Service LEO's and National Park Rangers have cross jurisdictional authority when needed.

Yosemite NP might look close to DPP but there are two very rugged high ridges in between with the entire route being in the Ansel Adams Wilderness. I've lived here 30 years and can assure you that Yosemite and DPP have not been involved in any mutual aid situation in that time.

My points are that, one, there isn't a "Operations East" in Yosemite National Park that has anything to do with Devils Postpile NP. Two, I worked with the Devils Postpile people for ten years and their radio programs didn't match the listings shown under Yosemite NP Operations East on the database. I worked with them closely enough that I had a master key for the monument and stayed in one of their cabins while on cross country ski patrols in the valley.
 

lbfd09

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The listing of "East NPS Operations" is bogus. I've asked the database administrators to remove it and it is still shown. Devils Postpile (DPP)... ... ...

Finally, have you ever heard of a handheld radio that has both VHF FM and AM frequencies?
ExSmokey, answering the last question first... Not only have I heard of an HT with airband frequencies programed. I have a one or 2 of mine so programed. One has been used to monitor the local unicom channel while we are working an incident at the airport. Yes it is in transmit inhibit and yes it's toggled as an FM mode channel. Granted clarity and distance in not effective or efficient but it helps in giving us a heads up until we get the air radio.

I recall seeing an older radio load for Yosemite that included at least one air band frequency. Dating myself this has to be at least 22 years ago. I want to think that was an older east side load. But the way things are changing here a previous listing in the data base or is MT or one of the Kelty books, might be bluing my grey matter upstairs.

I have heard references on the air to those who I think were at Badger about some channels not on, again that's been a number of years ago. This was back when they did not have as many repeaters up in the park and thus this deleted? Funny how forgetful one gets as the years pass - Thanks ExSmokey for clarifying things for us, no east side load.
 

b52hbuff

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ExSmokey, answering the last question first... Not only have I heard of an HT with airband frequencies programed. I have a one or 2 of mine so programed. One has been used to monitor the local unicom channel while we are working an incident at the airport. Yes it is in transmit inhibit and yes it's toggled as an FM mode channel. Granted clarity and distance in not effective or efficient but it helps in giving us a heads up until we get the air radio.
Despite the technical issues discussed, the mode is incorrect for a scanner, which can have AM and FM frequencies. ;)

But we should do the right thing, and not simply fixup the mode. Are these frequencies used? Or are they placeholders?
 

lbfd09

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Despite the technical issues discussed, the mode is incorrect for a scanner, which can have AM and FM frequencies. ;)

But we should do the right thing, and not simply fixup the mode. Are these frequencies used? Or are they placeholders?
According to ExSmokey and I trust his expertise as he's the man when it comes to NPS and NFS and frequencies, they do not exist in them there radios. Awaiting deletion or correction to the data base here. I think he said he had a request to that effect pending.
 

kma371

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The listing of "East NPS Operations" is bogus. I've asked the database administrators to remove it and it is still shown.

"East NPS Ops" has been removed, but for information... there wasn't any request (that I saw in the submissions page) asking for it to be deleted. Requesting it be deleted in a thread isn't the way to get it done.
 

SCPD

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"East NPS Ops" has been removed, but for information... there wasn't any request (that I saw in the submissions page) asking for it to be deleted. Requesting it be deleted in a thread isn't the way to get it done.
I recall making a submission to eliminate the listing some years back. I was told the listing was accurate and that the source knew the listing to be accurate. It has been some years since I retired so it is possible they made some changes, but the association with Yosemite has not. The need to communicate with Yosemite and vice versa does not exist. They were a unit of Sequoia-Kings until recently and prior to 1994 the Sierra Crest sub-district ranger was stationed in Bishop year round. That ranger assisted DPP on a frequent basis.

There wasn't anything set up for radio contact with Sequoia Kings or Yosemite.Dispatching services are provided by the Owens Valley Interagency Communication Center ("Inyo"). DPP is not an exclusive jurisdiction as KNP and YNP are. DPP is a concurrent jurisdiction with Madera County, however, in this case Mono County, and due to distance, the Mammoth PD provided LE assistance, Mono County provided EMS, and Mono County provided SAR. DPP has no fire apparatus and very few minimally trained fire fighters so the park was in the direct protection area of the Inyo NF.

There is a long standing relationship with Death Valley NP because DPP's off season was winter and DVP's was summer. Some personnel worked at one park and then the other because of this. These two parks also appeared before the same federal magistrate in Bishop so DVP assisted DPP for some law enforcement cases.

The Supervisory Park Ranger (most recently changed to a full park superintendent) gave me the copies of the programs for their Kings and the Midland 80 Channel base station when I worked for the Forest Service. I used the base on some occasions. In the case of the latter I don't think they used more than 20 frequencies as DPP sits in a deep valley surrounded by high ridges. It is a cherry stem in the Ansel Adams Wilderness so their aren't any repeaters on those ridges except for the summit of Mammoth Mountain, located outside wilderness, with only a Forest Service and Mammoth PD repeater available on VHF. The ability to use a lot of frequencies does not exist there. The Midland base was a huge radio and fully met the definition of a "boat anchor."

We worked together a great deal, especially myself. We (their personnel and myself) worked on minor law enforcement incidents , where two officers were needed, the annual valley road closings/openings, shuttle bus management, parking control, entrance station operations, maintenance issues, avalanche evaluation, etc. Due to my job description I was the primary liaison between the park and the forest, at least on the face to face, field level. There wasn't any friction between the agencies at all and what was theirs was ours and vice versa. Working with DPP when I was on the Inyo and YNP when I was on the Toiyabe on the Bridgeport Ranger District were two of the highlights of my career. I was able to help them and they me.

When I hiked and horse backed on the Toiyabe NF some trips required looping into Yosemite and out again. My only radio contact was the park both on the forest and the park in many areas. I knew and still know the radio system of Yosemite. As far as I know Hoffman was the first repeater in the park with Wawona added next and Crane Flat later. Now they have Valley Ranger District repeaters on Sentinel and Turtleback Dome.
 
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ecps92

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It's a common theme in some states, when you try to get OLD Date updated and are told it's correct [I tried the same with many of the Civil Air Patrol out of date listings, which is why I went and did the Wiki instead]

Sadly the info has become more and more scarce, as folks WANT the info, but rarely share back to the lists :(

I recall making a submission to eliminate the listing some years back. I was told the listing was accurate and that the source knew the listing to be accurate. It has been some years since I retired so it is possible they made some changes, but the association with Yosemite has not. .
 

kma371

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I recall making a submission to eliminate the listing some years back. I was told the listing was accurate and that the source knew the listing to be accurate.
It must have been before 2009 because that's as far as it goes back.
 
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