Algonquin College System Confusion

[fmoore]

I have been monitoring this system and trying to identify all the TGID's that pop up. The confusion is lying in the appearance of multiple tags for the same Channel for example:
Algonquin Security Main is TGID 10 and I can hear all of the conversations on this TG
and I have heard what sounds like bits of one sided conversation for Algonquin Security Main on TGID 74 and a couple others. Is there an issue with how the system is programmed or is it how the system works like some sort of simulcast?

On a related note certain TGIDs are appearing on three systems with the same number sequence is this a normal coincidence or are the systems overlapping in some way?
Algonquin, Turris main and GOTBRO
For Example some TGID's that raised my eyebrows are:
11000104 Appears on both Algonquin System and GOTBRO I have not been able to identify it as of yet.
Algonquin 538463 looks like a number sequence that is more like the Turris network pattern also being unidentified
1120 appears in the GOTBRO system and doesn't match the pattern and looks more like a Turris system.

I am using a BCD436HP with Proscan with the latest updates and this has been appearing for at least 4 months.
Frank

GOTRBO Network Trunking System, Multiple Locations, Multi-State

GOTRBO Network Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

BearCom Canada - Algonquin College Trunking System, Ottawa, Ontario

BearCom Canada - Algonquin College Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

BearCom Canada - PushPlus Network Trunking System, Multiple Locations, Multi-State

BearCom Canada - PushPlus Network Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[IdleMonitor]

I have a feeling you have something wrong with your programming. I see no talkgroup crossovers at all between GoTRBO and PushPlush networks.

TG 11000104 GoTRBO sounds very much like a construction company out of Carleton Place.

Perhaps you have a frequency that's wrong. I do see that Algonquin System has a frequency of 461.2875 while GoTRBO has a frequency of 461.3875 listed as a Pakenham Tower frequency. 461.5875 is a frequency on the PushPlush Network on the Chateau Royale Tower Site 003.
You might have your Algonquin system programmed with the wrong frequency.

These are the radio ID's I have listed for the TG 1000104
102001
102002
102003
102004
102006
102008
102010
102014
102015
102017
102018
102019
102021
102022
102024
102025 - Dispatch Office
102027
102029
102032
102037
102041
102043

TG 1120 is a PushPlus Talkgroup not a GOTRBO talkgroup
TG 538463 is a PushPlus Talkgroup not a GOTRBO Talkgroup.

Check over each site frequency for each system to make sure you have the correct frequencies attached to the right sites in the right systems.

 

[mmisk]

If you have an SDR USB device download the latest version of Unitrunker. Inexpensive way to listen. The latest version only works with Win 10.

 

[VA3JPX]

http://www.unitrunker.com/v2/UniTrunker-2.1.0.7.msi

 

[IdleMonitor]

He's using a 436HP, same radio I have. I have no issues with these systems at all with the exception of Algonquin because I can't even hear it from my location.

Already suggested to make sure the frequencies are inputted properly for each site and system. My guess is he's flubbed a frequency and that's it.

 

[ATCTech]

...and when did I miss the email that Unitrunker suddenly supports DMR systems? NOT.

IdleMonitor is right, time for a reboot on this thread.

 

[mciupa]

Let's wait for Frank to report back on his programming and see if things will be resolved.

 

[IdleMonitor]

Let's wait for Frank to report back on his programming and see if things will be resolved.

I had seen that you had edited the earlier posts, but now I see them back. Yet they're irrelevant to this thread. ???

 

[mciupa]

After ATCTech responded to those deleted items prior to their deletion, I returned them for continuity. Once fmoore responds, we will be in our lane again.

 

[fmoore]

Thank you for all your help.

I double checked my tower frequencies and made sure they matched the right systems and I appear not to have any mistakes when it comes to that possible source of error.

I will go into my raw data to show what popped up in the with the software and maybe that might help point us in the right direction. The following data is what I have gathered.

For more information the following shows up on the Algonquin System This Tag I hear no problem:
Tag 10, 461.287500/2, Tone CC3, UID 341, NFM, Followed by the time and Algonquin Security Main

For the ones I am observing that we all are questioning:

11000104, 461.462500/1, CC 1, NFM, Hits 5, ... Turris Communications-Push Plus (UHF 201)-Crosswinds - ... my sub category

538660 452.312500/1, CC2, NFM, Hits 2, GOTBRO Network - Camp Fortune...

If anyone has any further questions feel free to ask to trouble shoot this.
Frank

 

[mmisk]

...and when did I miss the email that Unitrunker suddenly supports DMR systems? NOT.

IdleMonitor is right, time for a reboot on this thread.

I was using my cellphone and somehow my post went into this thread.
It should have been a reply to: Listening to FleetNet on a DMR radio by jrroy1984
I usually use my computer to post messages.
Sorry bout that!

 

[ATCTech]

No worries!!!

 

[fmoore]

My primary question might be explained in another place but my question is: Are there other ways other than simply listening to conversation and using clues to identify reliably the users of TGIDs? I am aware of the so so TAFL searches and antenna spotting. One of my ongoing projects is to help clean up the local DB from the generic labels of Construction or Courier and what not and actually put names on those. This would be the link to the above thread to keep it on topic.
Secondarily through the process of triple checking the programming I discovered the following. This also might help other listeners, I have discovered that I have locked out Tags per the category as I classify them in Proscan. For example I had recently classified LRT Tags as Railroad from Transportation(from DB) and I discovered that I had deactivated that and other groupings in the scanner. I had been baffled as to why that went silent during the City Testing of LRT. That also explains why tags that shouldn't have been that hard to hear were silent also.

Thanks for all your help.
Frank

 

[IdleMonitor]

Yes. A lot of mundane listening needs to be done. But it takes a skillful ear sometimes to pick out the types of conversations being had. Is it construction type business, security, transportation, delivery etc.? Locations, having Google Maps handy to pick out street and road names etc., trying to narrow it down to where is it that I'm listening to.

Some of these trunked systems are very wide area coverage. What county or towns and cities are mentioned etc.? Then you can try and figure out all the more local simplex or repeater type digital stuff as well.

It is a hobby for me that I've been lucky to have for almost 25 years. So I try to make the most of it.

I try to attach radio id's also to talkgroups whenever possible also. Helps narrow down channel 1 and channel 2 type scenarios.

TAFL is helpful when finding new frequencies then sorting them all out later.

I don't lock out any tags. I keep them all available. If I'm being selective to what I wanna listen to. I just adjust my available quick keys to my listening preference at the time.

My primary question might be explained in another place but my question is: Are there other ways other than simply listening to conversation and using clues to identify reliably the users of TGIDs? I am aware of the so so TAFL searches and antenna spotting. One of my ongoing projects is to help clean up the local DB from the generic labels of Construction or Courier and what not and actually put names on those. This would be the link to the above thread to keep it on topic.
Secondarily through the process of triple checking the programming I discovered the following. This also might help other listeners, I have discovered that I have locked out Tags per the category as I classify them in Proscan. For example I had recently classified LRT Tags as Railroad from Transportation(from DB) and I discovered that I had deactivated that and other groupings in the scanner. I had been baffled as to why that went silent during the City Testing of LRT. That also explains why tags that shouldn't have been that hard to hear were silent also.

Thanks for all your help.
Frank

 

[fmoore]

I did a Excell sheet with the UID vs TGID's for The Algonquin System Tags so this is my resulting chart.

ALG UID

French Coms

Janitorial

TGID

Security Main 10

Security CH2?? 14

Repeater? 26

28​

22​

86​

29​

21​

16​

62​

31​

139863652​

17​

1​

148​

3070​

3044​

3044​

3021​

3021​

3021​

3021​

3018​

3068​

3017​

3017​

3065​

3016​

3062​

3015​

3014​

3039​

3011​

3011​

3033​

3010​

3028​

3008​

3023​

3007​

3022​

3001​

 

[fmoore]

I heard TG 48 active this morning so it sounds like its the grounds crew that also does snow plowing probably at Algonquin.

 

[fmoore]

I have three comments to add to this:
First, as far as the Algonquin system I have reprogrammed the system from MotoBro to DMR single site to see if that changes anything.
Secondly, I ran across a really interesting thread while searching for the third comment/question.

Central TG Registry?

In several large professional 2-Way systems I see Talkgroups with long numbers: eg a series from 6100001 thru 6400301, a series from 2001001 thru 2901060, with occasional oddballs (perhaps roamers) like 4271890 or 14548084. Other smaller systems with only a dozen or so TG include TG numbers...

forums.radioreference.com

Third, and finally I have been looking for a guide to antenna spotting in regards to system identification. Is there a thread I have overlooked with this, or a website?
Frank