Alpha Tags

[wv_mountaineer]

I am sure this has been asked before but here goes anyways.

Why are all of the Alpha Tags using only 12 spaces? All of the newer scanner allow for 16 spaces. Can we be like the rest of the world and move on leaving behind the old and moving into the new? Or is there other issues with using all 16 spaces with the website? I can make my Alpha Tags more understanding with 16 spaces than some of the administrators do with 12. Just my 2 cents...

 

[MOTOROLANUT]

Tags

The alpha tags are trying to mimic what the actual radio head unit (motorola, kenwood or the like) would display in the emergency vehicle on that particular talkgroup or channel. Hence the abbreviations.

That would be my guess...lol

 

[GTR8000]

Right out of the DB Admin Handbook:

6.4. ALPHA TAGGING

6.4.1. GENERAL

Alpha tags are limited to 12 characters to ensure compatibility with older scanners that support only a 12-character alpha tag. Alpha tags should be made as clear as possible given the space provided. Alpha tags should generally indicate the agency and the channel number or usage to the extent that the information is known and can reasonably fit in 12 characters. Alpha tags should use a mix of lower and upper case letters (the use of all capital letters should be avoided). Alpha tags should not necessarily be the alpha tag as shown on a radio transceiver programmed for a specific conventional or trunked system. Alpha tags should be written to be useful to scanner users and furthermore they should be clear to novice scanner users to the extent possible.

The alpha tags are trying to mimic what the actual radio head unit (motorola, kenwood or the like) would display in the emergency vehicle on that particular talkgroup or channel. Hence the abbreviations.

That would be my guess...lol

The last two sentences of what I quoted from the DB Admin Handbook address that. What the actual radio displays is often times not very useful to the average scanner user.

 

[W6KRU]

The correct content of the tag would depend on how the tag is used. A newb user might want the tag to display Task Force North so they know who it is. A user with more experience might prefer TFN if that is how all of the users refer to it.

I would go with the TFN display because I know that it means Task Force North and when a user says switch to TFN it relates exactly to the tag. Very few of my tags are as they appear in the RR DB. 6 or 1/2 dozen ??

 

[MOTOROLANUT]

Right out of the DB Admin Handbook:







The last two sentences of what I quoted from the DB Admin Handbook address that. What the actual radio displays is often times not very useful to the average scanner user.

Thats why I stated..."That would be my guess"...LOL

 

[GTR8000]

Thats why I stated..."That would be my guess"...LOL

No I know, just clarifying for anyone else who comes across this thread and wonders if it's true.

 

[mike_s104]

Right out of the DB Admin Handbook:

6.4. ALPHA TAGGING

6.4.1. GENERAL

Alpha tags are limited to 12 characters to ensure compatibility with older scanners that support only a 12-character alpha tag. Alpha tags should be made as clear as possible given the space provided. Alpha tags should generally indicate the agency and the channel number or usage to the extent that the information is known and can reasonably fit in 12 characters. Alpha tags should use a mix of lower and upper case letters (the use of all capital letters should be avoided). Alpha tags should not necessarily be the alpha tag as shown on a radio transceiver programmed for a specific conventional or trunked system. Alpha tags should be written to be useful to scanner users and furthermore they should be clear to novice scanner users to the extent possible.

The last two sentences of what I quoted from the DB Admin Handbook address that. What the actual radio displays is often times not very useful to the average scanner user.

If this is really the case (and apparently it is since it's in the DB Admin Handbook), someone really needs to look at the WVIRP (SIRN) (Ohio Co & Jackson Co TGs are examples), Loudoun Co. VA conventional, Frederick Co. VA, Fairfax Co. VA conventional,
Winchester City VA conventional, Shenandoah Co. VA conventional, Fauquier Co. VA conventional, Augusta Co. VA conventional, Staunton City VA conventional, Waynesboro City VA conventional, Rappahannock Co. VA conventional and the list goes on and on. Should I submit changes for each of these or will this go up the VIP chain and changed?

 

[loumaag]

... Should I submit changes for each of these or will this go up the VIP chain and changed?

Possibly some might be changed if the regional admin for those areas sees this post; however, the correct method would be for you to submit a change for those that you see as wrong.

 

[mike_s104]

Possibly some might be changed if the regional admin for those areas sees this post; however, the correct method would be for you to submit a change for those that you see as wrong.

Man, that's a lot to submit for someone that PAYS for access to the database and PAYS for those $300-$500 scanners that are supposed to rely on the RR DB for programming their scanners.

 

[loumaag]

Man, that's a lot to submit for someone that PAYS for access to the database and PAYS for those $300-$500 scanners that are supposed to rely on the RR DB for programming their scanners.

Oh wait. You expect those of us who aren't paid at all, much less have any interest in the VA/WV area to do the work for you?

This site is built on user submissions, it has always been so, and only due to the efforts of a volunteer staff that use those submissions from users does the DB even exist. Just remember this while you sit back and use the efforts of that staff, each and every entry you see in that database was entered one at a time by some DB Admin, for the benefit of all. You want your local part of the DB to be pristine, then you do something to improve it, don't sit around on your couch and complain about how someone else isn't doing something. If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

 

[wv_mountaineer]

Man, that's a lot to submit for someone that PAYS for access to the database and PAYS for those $300-$500 scanners that are supposed to rely on the RR DB for programming their scanners.

Get'em "mike_s104". You are so right! Every little piece and part of the Database is suppose to follow rules that are laid out in the little back book of rules. However is seems that a few bad apples want to do it their way. I am sure that the admin guys are very busy people with their own lives however they did volunteer for this job also. Let's just get it all together and do thing the correct way the first time and then you won't have to waste your time on it all over again.
Now go ahead and bash me as you please! BTW, I have to waste my time doing changes to my Alpha Tags all of the time when I download info from this site. I like the idea that the scanner makers give me 16 spaces to use and I think RR should use them also. However rules are rules. Keep up the great work...

 

[mtindor]

Ohio Co alpha tags were not pulled from the radios direct. I did, however, change them to remove the "35" references.

I'd think what's more important is getting more concrete descriptions for some of the very very generic entries in SIRN. Jackson Co is a good example. Public Safety - Other ? In this case, had somebody actually pulled those talkgroups from the radio, I'm sure the radio alpha tags would have made much more sense than the super-generic description we have in there right now. That's just one example [because it happened to be green today and I noticed it]. There are very weakly identified talkgroups all over the place, some which never should have been entered with such vagueness IMO.

I happen to agree with the policy on using a friendly naming convention, but with the limitation in size of alpha tags it sometimes looks very silly to try to concoct an appreviated friendly alpha tag -- it sometimes is much more readable using tags prepended with the county number. Just because they are prepended with a county number doesn't mean they came from the radio like that.

Mike

 

[mike_s104]

Get'em "mike_s104". You are so right! Every little piece and part of the Database is suppose to follow rules that are laid out in the little back book of rules. However is seems that a few bad apples want to do it their way. I am sure that the admin guys are very busy people with their own lives however they did volunteer for this job also. Let's just get it all together and do thing the correct way the first time and then you won't have to waste your time on it all over again.
Now go ahead and bash me as you please! BTW, I have to waste my time doing changes to my Alpha Tags all of the time when I download info from this site. I like the idea that the scanner makers give me 16 spaces to use and I think RR should use them also. However rules are rules. Keep up the great work...

Yep, I go through all mine as well. Kinda defeats the purpose, doesn't it?

Oh wait. You expect those of us who aren't paid at all, much less have any interest in the VA/WV area to do the work for you?

This site is built on user submissions, it has always been so, and only due to the efforts of a volunteer staff that use those submissions from users does the DB even exist. Just remember this while you sit back and use the efforts of that staff, each and every entry you see in that database was entered one at a time by some DB Admin, for the benefit of all. You want your local part of the DB to be pristine, then you do something to improve it, don't sit around on your couch and complain about how someone else isn't doing something. If you are not part of the solution, then you are part of the problem.

Yes, I do expect you to work for me and maintain my area as well as all of the areas on the DB to be correct. Part of the cost of the scanners (I'm guessing) and the yearly subscription goes towards accurate info. You all refuse to change the data that is pointed out to meet your "rules" as pointed out by another DB Admin that quoted the DB Admin Handbook. I have submitted a lot of data to the DB, but I can stop submitting that data if it's not welcome. If it'll make you happy, I will go through the entire DB, starting with MY AREA, and submit a change FOR EVERY SINGLE ENTRY that needs to be changed or updated.

Just because you are a DB Admin and a moderator, doesn't mean you are entitled to be a jerk to other PAID user on here. I bet there is a "rule" or something about that as well.

Ohio Co alpha tags were not pulled from the radios direct. I did, however, change them to remove the "35" references.

I'd think what's more important is getting more concrete descriptions for some of the very very generic entries in SIRN. Jackson Co is a good example. Public Safety - Other ? In this case, had somebody actually pulled those talkgroups from the radio, I'm sure the radio alpha tags would have made much more sense than the super-generic description we have in there right now. That's just one example [because it happened to be green today and I noticed it]. There are very weakly identified talkgroups all over the place, some which never should have been entered with such vagueness IMO.

I happen to agree with the policy on using a friendly naming convention, but with the limitation in size of alpha tags it sometimes looks very silly to try to concoct an appreviated friendly alpha tag -- it sometimes is much more readable using tags prepended with the county number. Just because they are prepended with a county number doesn't mean they came from the radio like that.

Mike

I understand. Some of the ones I pointed out had nothing or a "1" or another number. How does that help anyone?

 

[mtindor]

I understand. Some of the ones I pointed out had nothing or a "1" or another number. How does that help anyone?

You're right. Those kinds of descriptions do not help at all. i didn't see where you pointed out any of them [because I only stopped on this thread in passing and injected a comment]. I have seen many such entries across the entire DB in the past myself, and they are totally useless.

If you see such entries in my area, feel free to point them out. Of course, sometimes it's just a matter of time man. Not to defend Lou [who doesn't need defending], but he's right about the site being driven by user submissions -- and he's right about the fact that we aren't paid admins. We're hobbiests just like you. We do the best we can [most of us at least, and more often than not]. But we aren't perfect and we don't always have time to instantly work tickets or to dive into a whole huge county and make widespread changes [which takes some forethought and amount of time set aside to do the job].

Mike

 

[mike_s104]

You're right. Those kinds of descriptions do not help at all. i didn't see where you pointed out any of them [because I only stopped on this thread in passing and injected a comment]. I have seen many such entries across the entire DB in the past myself, and they are totally useless.

If you see such entries in my area, feel free to point them out. Of course, sometimes it's just a matter of time man. Not to defend Lou [who doesn't need defending], but he's right about the site being driven by user submissions -- and he's right about the fact that we aren't paid admins. We're hobbiests just like you. We do the best we can [most of us at least, and more often than not]. But we aren't perfect and we don't always have time to instantly work tickets or to dive into a whole huge county and make widespread changes [which takes some forethought and amount of time set aside to do the job].

Mike

Nothing was meant to be a jab at any of you. If I were a DB Admin, I would be more than will to assist as I had time. I do understand that all is driven by the users, but there needs to be more to it then how Lou reacted like a smart a**. I pointed out something and he acted like I offended him personally some how. You, on the other hand, acted professional, so thank you.

 

[wv_mountaineer]

Oops my bad....

I did not mean to start a thread and start any problems however when that does happen things seem to get done and then get done correctly.

As for not submitting things that are useful to others on this site.... Well I have already started to do that from time to time. That being said, I have been using a website that has frequencies for about 20 counties all around me which allows me to go into the site and update and or make changes all by myself. I know those in the know on here know exactly what site I am referring to and y'all also know who owns the site. Not many of ya have a good word about the guy as y'all say he stole some if not all of RR's info to start his page. I don't know anything about it situation and I don't really care but I put all of the knowledge I find out there in the scanning world right on to his site as soon as I know who and what agency is using it. It is now my go to site for anyone I know that is starting to get into scanning in my area. I kind of steer them away from this site until they have a clue as to what is going on. After that it is up to them to decide if they want to use RR.
I started this thread just to ask about Alpha Tags and now it is out of control. Someone should just close the thread if that is possible. Thanks!

 

[mtindor]

You, on the other hand, acted professional, so thank you.

That might be a first for me Well, the offer still stands. If you see things in Eastern / Northeastern Ohio / WV Northern Panhandle / Wash Co PA that you think need adjusted / corrrected and you feel like shooting me off a PM, do it and I'll take a look. You can even use the normal Submit method and then shoot me off a PM and ask me to pick it up, and I'll do that if another admin hasn't already.

Mike

 

[mike_s104]

That might be a first for me Well, the offer still stands. If you see things in Eastern / Northeastern Ohio / WV Northern Panhandle / Wash Co PA that you think need adjusted / corrrected and you feel like shooting me off a PM, do it and I'll take a look. You can even use the normal Submit method and then shoot me off a PM and ask me to pick it up, and I'll do that if another admin hasn't already.

Mike

Thanks. Basically, if the people would go through their areas and see if there is something that is useful and correct (or not plain empty) and update it if needed.

Ohh well. I'll have to really think about if it's worth paying for access to the "premium" features when my membership is due next time. Paying "members" (wouldn't we really be considered customers other places?) should not be bashed publicly and basically their valid "complaints" ignored (by some). If the same thing (I know this isn't the first time) happened in a store, their customers would stop buy their products.

I started this thread just to ask about Alpha Tags and now it is out of control. Someone should just close the thread if that is possible. Thanks!

Agree...got way off topic and I apologize for that even though I don't feel I was alone in getting it there.

 

[WayneH]

I'm closing this thread since the question was answered pretty quick and what resulted afterward was entirely unnecessary..

There are various posts in this thread which if a member were to submit for the DB Admin position would be shot down pretty quick. So if you really want to change things for the database - by becoming a DB Admin - don't get an attitude with us.

The tags will never be correct for everyone because everyone does it differently. If someone is an expert user, plan on making modifications. What's in the database, and how the handbook describes data to be entered, is meant for everyone as a whole.