AM radio phased out in some EVs

[mmckenna]

Sort of on-topic. A few years ago my company vehicle was totaled so I had a rental for awhile. The company vehicle had SiriusXM, the rental didn’t. On my 9 hour drive out to west Texas I found a large stretch of I-10 where FM was dead as expected, but so was AM. I couldn’t even get a religious or Spanish station, that’s unusual.

Now I admit I was using the search feature which uses some sort of squelch I’m guessing. So manually tuning through the band may have given different results.

Yeah, the scan function misses quite a bit.
But I've had the same experience. I've driven from California out to San Antonio a few times and during the day there are dead sections.

Same out along some isolated sections of the coastline here. AM/FM are dead during the daytime unless I'm on a mountain peak. At night, the AM DX comes blasting in.
My wife's truck (the "nice truck") has Sirius/XM and she really likes it. I (personally) have two issues with it:
1. In the mountains/canyons, the birds get blocked and it drops out.
2. The sampling rate doesn't always agree with my ears.
-OK, maybe three:
3. It's "just too easy". No challenge in satellite radio. No trying to tune in a distant AM station and listen to local commercials/news and realizing their is a whole world outside our own little bubbles. *



* I enjoy listening to 660AM which is the "Voice of the Navajo Nation" out of Window Rock Arizona. A neat mix of Navajo music and classic country/rock. It's a 50KW am station that blasts in pretty hard in parts of the Western USA. Hearing their local/tribal news is eye opening. Hearing the commercials that are aimed at a different segment of the population is interesting (Buying pickups from certain dealers in New Mexico in the winter include a bed full of firewood to keep your home warm.)

 

[CrabbyMilton]

Sort of on-topic. A few years ago my company vehicle was totaled so I had a rental for awhile. The company vehicle had SiriusXM, the rental didn’t. On my 9 hour drive out to west Texas I found a large stretch of I-10 where FM was dead as expected, but so was AM. I couldn’t even get a religious or Spanish station, that’s unusual.

Now I admit I was using the search feature which uses some sort of squelch I’m guessing. So manually tuning through the band may have given different results.

Well next time bring along your own CD's and downloads. Strange that you didn't find anything.

 

[CrabbyMilton]

I wonder if there is an AM to FM converter out there for such a thing? I remember a friend back in High School that bought an FM converter for his AM radio only car. But now it seems just the opposite.

 

[avaloncourt]

I got a Subaru survey a couple days ago asking about a lot of different topics which included EV development and also car radios. There were two specific questions as to whether I would want AM and FM in a future vehicle. The more disturbing parts of the survey were related to tolerance of subscription services related to car functions like optionally turning on heated seats through subscription and also intentionally crippling the car's entertainment system and audio quality of the system and being able to 'upgrade' the quality/features through subscription service.

 

[CrabbyMilton]

I don't know much about SUBARU products but I would imagine you are not obligated to opt. for such features.

 

[n1ofj]

I got a Subaru survey a couple days ago asking about a lot of different topics which included EV development and also car radios. There were two specific questions as to whether I would want AM and FM in a future vehicle. The more disturbing parts of the survey were related to tolerance of subscription services related to car functions like optionally turning on heated seats through subscription and also intentionally crippling the car's entertainment system and audio quality of the system and being able to 'upgrade' the quality/features through subscription service.

This kind of crap is ridiculous and has gotten out of hand.

 

[avaloncourt]

I don't know much about SUBARU products but I would imagine you are not obligated to opt. for such features.

This is the direction that car manufacturers are going. The only thing that Subaru presently has for car functionality is the remote start/climate control which is a subscription through their connected service. A friend who is a mechanic for a Chevrolet dealership has recently said that they had an educational in-service about services coming to new vehicles where they are tying subscription services to vehicle performance and functions. The functions will be built into the car but you can only access them if you have a subscription. They're also going to a subscription model where engine/vehicle performance will be tied to a subscription model. Knowing that, I can see in this survey that is exactly what Subaru is fishing for. Sure, they word it like you would benefit from paying for X but it's something already in the car and you have to fork over the $ to get to it. The entertainment center thing was what really got me when they worded as would you be willing to subscribe to an upgrade of your entertainment system by obtaining a subscription to improve the performance through a "software update." So, basically that's telling you we're going to make your entertainment system sound like crap or intentionally disable function unless you pay us. Congratulations, the subscription model has come to your car. This isn't even related to services available on the entertainment system. That was a whole other part of the survey. This was specifically related to the audio quality and clearly stated that. "Would you like to subscribe to the Tier 3 package to enable X, Y and Z?" They even polled tolerance for monthly cost, below $10.99, below $19.99, below $39.99, below $59.99 monthly. If this is going to be a broad approach across all manufacturers, you're going to see people hold on to cars a VERY long time.

 

[CrabbyMilton]

I just bought a '23 NISSAN ALTIMA. It's the standard entry level model and has none of that. I'm glad and besides, this car has more features than needed but not complaining. I had a '21 ALTIMA but I got rear ended on the freeway last month and totaled. I loved that car so I was fortunate that I was able to get another one just like it. I'll use my flash drive or own phone for music. I don't even use the built in BLUETOOTH but rather an adapter I had in my '04 MERCURY GRAND MARQUIS prior to November of '21. It works just fine.

 

[cc333]

Are you kidding me?

It's bad enough that computers and phones have this problem, but there's no way I'm going to stand for a car that demands I pay a monthly fee just for the privilege of having a radio, among other basic features!

c

 

[KA4DPO]

At some point the EV manufacturers will have to find a way to incorporate AM radio into their automobiles. There are many cases where FM reception is not possible when driving in mountains and non urban terrain. In those situations, AM radio is a very important as a source for emergency new and bulletins.

And unless battery technology gets fsr better in the next ten years, EV's are just not going to be as viable as diesel electric hybrids. Not much on performance, but very clean, and superrior fuel mileage in all weather conditions.

 

[mmckenna]

At some point the EV manufacturers will have to find a way to incorporate AM radio into their automobiles. There are many cases where FM reception is not possible when driving in mountains and non urban terrain. In those situations, AM radio is a very important as a source for emergency new and bulletins.

I think eventually we'll see AM broadcast waste away. Locally, there really isn't a lot of useful information shared over AM radio anymore. So many of the stations are just running syndicated programming and don't have DJ's or news staff. Emergency alerts and announcements are a good justification, but I think that's losing ground to other means of communications.

New cell phones are coming with satellite SMS capability. It's only a matter of time before that becomes an easier/better way to reach people for emergency alerts.

But, sure, here in the Western USA, AM radio is still useful. I'm currently sitting in my garage listening to an AM station almost 900 miles away. Kind of hard to beat that.

Some countries in Europe have already abandoned AM broadcast band and have moved on to newer technologies. Less land to cover, that's for sure. But I think the bell has rung for AM radio. Sure, someone still driving a 1973 Chevy might complain, but most have moved on….

And unless battery technology gets fsr better in the next ten years, EV's are just not going to be as viable as diesel electric hybrids. Not much on performance, but very clean, and superrior fuel mileage in all weather conditions.

It will. It's just a matter of bringing the costs down. But it's hard to ignore the ease of using liquid fuels.
Battery capacity and prices will continue to drop and electric will make more and more sense. As for charging, that'll speed up too, most battery development is focusing on capacity and recharge speed. Hard to find a human that can really drive 300 miles without stopping for a pee break. Eventually the charging speeds will come down to the point that a trip to the restroom and a cup of coffee will be all the time needed to recharge.

There will probably always be a justification for vehicles that have different types energy sources. Just too many diverse uses.
Ultimately the goal will be to move as many vehicles to electric as makes sense. I'm betting most peoples average trips to/from work are doable with an electric car.
Keep the Diesel/Hybrid for the long roadtrips.

 

[KA4DPO]

I am retired and rarely drive more than 50 miles, the majority of my trips are less than 10 miles round trip. Recently test drove a Tesla Model Y, it was relatively nice, pretty quick, but sort of underwhelming as a total package. Crummy handling, strange braking ( the car is very heavy), and just stink bug ugly styling. I understand the zeal for EV's, but there are practicality issues. First, when the majority of cars are plug in electrics, power plants, mostly powered by fossil fuels, will have to produce significantly more power seemingly negating the purpose of clean EV's and just moving the point of emissions. It takes far, far, less power to produce diesel fuel in large amounts. Also, modern diesel technology has rendered them exceptionally clean, most of the automobiles in Europe are diesels for that reason.

Second, regarding the long road trips, I don't know about you, but I see hybrid cars all over town all the time, so who says they are only good for long trips. However, if I did take one on a long trip, the infrastructure is already in place to refuel almost everywhere. Similarly, I can refuel in a minute or two as opposed to 25 to 45 minutes for less than a full charge, and a well designed hybrid could easily go at least 600 miles or more between fill ups.

I have a couple of high performance gas guzzlers, but I mostly drive my dinky Honda for the sake of economy. I just think full up EV's are a bad idea until battery and power generation/distribution technology matures enough to do it right, which may take another 40 or 50 years.

 

[cc333]

@KA4DPO I agree!

EVs are fine and good, but I really think that things like mandating that all new cars must be EVs by 2035, as CA and a few others are doing, is premature at best. I mean, what do they expect people to do? How are people going to cope? As it is, the grid is barely able to keep up, and that's with EVs making up what, maybe 5% of the market? What happens when everyone's driving EVs and the power goes out? I guess anyone whose EV has run out of power will have to get out and walk to get where they're going.

I guess they're figuring the pressure will force the market to pick up the slack and get the necessary infrastructure built out faster than would otherwise happen, but i think it has the potential to backfire badly, particularly out here in the West. Maybe they're fine in the cities and suburbs, but once you're out in more rural areas, it gets pretty iffy, particularly in places where there's not much of a population. I mean, this can happen with gas too, but since gas refueling infrastructure is, as you said, virtually everywhere, then it's less of a problem.

There are more EV charging stations now than there ever were, and more are coming up all the time, but that still doesn't solve the fundamental problem underlying the whole thing: where's the power gonna come from?

I think the power grid must be carefully and thoughtfully upgraded to account for this need before the limited EV charging ability becomes a crisis, not after.

But, this probably won't happen.

At least if we buy any gas cars now, we'll be allowed to keep them after the 2035 cutoff. But for how long is anyone's guess, though I suspect it'll be sooner rather than later.

I'm politically very neutral, hovering just to the left of center, but I lean farther left on some issues, including the climate. However, I think the far-left progressive democrats, who are doing good things for the environment, are pushing this whole EV thing way too hard, with so much alarmism that it's become quite tiresome and boring. Like listening to someone who always speaks loudly and dramatically, to the point that it begins to sound like a constant, unrelenting scream.

Of course, I could say the same about practically any politician at this point, regardless of party, so I try not to pay much attention to any of it and just concentrate on things I enjoy.

Such as radio!

c

 

[mmckenna]

The nice thing about the electric cars I've been around is that they can be programmed to charge at night, after peak hours. Not only is there less strain on the grid at that time, but depending on your rate plan, electricity can be cheaper.
My sister drives one. It works for her because she's got about 30 miles to work. Car gets parked in the garage and plugged in when needed. It'll automatically wait until the right time to start charging. When she comes out in the morning, it's fully charged.
She's getting about 300 miles of range out of it. She's also taken it on a few long trips. The rapid chargers will bring it to nearly full charge in 30 minutes. If you've ever traveled with a woman, you'll find that you will not get 300 miles between bathroom breaks, and when you do stop, it's 30 minutes minimum.
No, it's not as quick/easy as a gas/Diesel vehicle. But it's not as bad as some want you to think.

Electric cars are the right direction to go for most users. They are not the single solution for every application. While I'm sure the 2035 requirement will stay, I'll be there'll be options.

Unfortunately, and like with most things, there's the first knee jerk reactions that many people have whenever change is suggested. I'm sure most will get over it and adjust. That's what we humans do.

 

[CrabbyMilton]

In cold climate areas, I really wonder how much juice you will have in reserve when you have the heater going full blast?

 

[avaloncourt]

But, sure, here in the Western USA, AM radio is still useful. I'm currently sitting in my garage listening to an AM station almost 900 miles away. Kind of hard to beat that.

The quality of the AM receiving section in the vehicle head units has progressively plummeted. I thought my Honda was bad until I got my Subaru. Wow, it is incredibly bad. The local AM station is distorted. The station I would prefer, 45 miles away, isn't even remotely listenable. If I turn the audio way way up, I can just barely tell that there's a station there.

 

[mmckenna]

In cold climate areas, I really wonder how much juice you will have in reserve when you have the heater going full blast?

Compared to the traction motors, the heater doesn't use much. There's YouTube videos of Tesla owners going camping with them. They leave the heater running at night and it doesn't impact range enough to be a concern.

Very cold weather does impact battery performance. Not low 40's type weather, but sub freezing type weather….

Also, remember these do regenerative braking. They don't waste a lot of energy on these things.

 

[mmckenna]

The quality of the AM receiving section in the vehicle head units has progressively plummeted. I thought my Honda was bad until I got my Subaru. Wow, it is incredibly bad. The local AM station is distorted. The station I would prefer, 45 miles away, isn't even remotely listenable. If I turn the audio way way up, I can just barely tell that there's a station there.

I've noticed the same.
My Ford does great on AM. I regularly listen to an AM broadcast station in the evenings that's 900 miles out. Comes in crystal clear most of the time.
In my wife's Chevy, I can still get the station, but not as well as the Ford.

 

[avaloncourt]

Compared to the traction motors, the heater doesn't use much. There's YouTube videos of Tesla owners going camping with them. They leave the heater running at night and it doesn't impact range enough to be a concern.

Very cold weather does impact battery performance. Not low 40's type weather, but sub freezing type weather….

Also, remember these do regenerative braking. They don't waste a lot of energy on these things.

I counter with the bulk of people can't afford a Tesla and that's a big difference in capacity. I definitely couldn't afford the purchase and required service for a Tesla. Anything even within my scope of possibility has 35-45% lower usable battery capacity. I live in Pennsylvania where we're sub-freezing to extreme 3-5 months of the year. Just a couple weeks ago we were sub-zero. Get stuck on an interstate in a blizzard and regenerative breaking isn't going to do anything to help a non-moving vehicle. Primary concern would be to stay warm and the pack is also going to use energy to heat itself.

 

[mmckenna]

I counter with the bulk of people can't afford a Tesla and that's a big difference in capacity. I definitely couldn't afford the purchase and required service for a Tesla. Anything even within my scope of possibility has 35-45% lower usable battery capacity. I live in Pennsylvania where we're sub-freezing to extreme 3-5 months of the year. Just a couple weeks ago we were sub-zero. Get stuck on an interstate in a blizzard and regenerative breaking isn't going to do anything to help a non-moving vehicle. Primary concern would be to stay warm and the pack is also going to use energy to heat itself.

Yep, sounds like it's not the right solution for you.

Battery capacity is impacted by cold temperatures, but it doesn't instantly drop to zero. The heater will still work, even if just sitting. Much more efficient to keep the heat running just off electricity than keeping a engine running just to scavenge heat off it.

My sister hasn't had any issues with maintenance. The only thing she's had to do was tires.

And cost….
Yeah, that is an issue. Like many new technologies, the first few years are super expensive, then things catch up and prices come down.

Most of the same concerns were said about hybrids, but those are now mainstream.