AM/SW reception problems

[jdemaris]

I'm looking for a way to get AM reception inside my house. I'm approx 60 miles from the nearest AM station with many mountain-tops between me and the transmitter. I also have a few "noise" problems at my house. One being 4800 volt powerlines directly over my house . Another problem is my solar-electric power which uses two big DC to AC inverters that make lots of noise that ruins AM reception when 100 feet or closer.

I've got 80 acres of land and mountain-tops and have many choices to install out-door antenna.

My problem/question is this. I can park a car or truck 50 feet behind my house and get the AM station I want fine. All I'm looking to do is get a signal inside my house that is at least, as good.

Yeah, I could junk a car or truck next to my house and run wires from it's radio into the house to power inside speakers - but that seems a bit silly.

I've tried various radios including three versions of the GE Super Radio, a Tescun BCL-2000, a Grundig S-350, and a Kaito/Degen KA1103.

With antennas - I've tried several wire-wound loops, inside and outside. Also have installed an ENDFEDZ EF-SWL FED Receive long-wire outdoor antenna. The long-wire antenna has 40 feet of wire and a 9-1 transformer with a SO-239 connector. I have an adapter to convert to a F connection - then RG6 coax for 75 feet - then a 75 ohm transformer to hook to the radio. Co-ax is grounded via twin 6 foot ground rods.

The long-wire antenna via the two wires from the 75 ohm balun does little when both wires are hooked to the radio. Works better with only one wire hooked, and better yet with one wire plugged into the radio-ground terminal for SW/AM, and the other simply wrapped around the FM telescoping antenna.

Basically - none of radios see much improvement with any external antenna hooked and using the long-wire antenna adds quite a bit of noise. At present - with AM - my best inside-the-house reception is with my Kaito KA1103 and NO external antenna. It is not near as good though as any of my cars or trucks will get parked next to my house.

Any ideas on what else I can try?

Station I want is 810 WGY from Albany, New York.

 

[bigjed]

Ever considered the Wellbrook Loop? A UK made antenna which is widely considered to be a miracle antenna.Nothing but good reports no matter where you look.Would probably solve your problem.

 

[rfradioconsult]

You may want to look into a Beverage antenna, very effective for ground wave reception, you will have to actually build it from scratch but it is relatively easy. I would start with a quarter mile roll of electric fence wire, with the distant end aimed toward the desired transmitting station. I would guess your dc to ac invertors are creating lots of hash that is conducted by your electrical wiring within your house, effectively creating a interference cage with you in the middle, that's why a vehicle outside your "cage" can receive.

 

[LtDoc]

Getting rid of the noise in the house would make things much simpler. Of course, getting rid of the noise isn't exactly simple, so may not be your easiest option. Putting up an antenna away from that noise and then running a feed line to your radio is another option. You'd still have to put up with the noise in the house, the radio it's self is susceptible to that noise no matter what antenna is connected to it. Oh well, take your pick on which 'nasty' choice you have...
- 'Doc

 

[ka3jjz]

There's also the option of building a nice MW loop - like the Wellbrook, you can turn the unit (depending on the design) to avoid the offending noise. The Wellbrook (and the Pixel loops) are quite expensive, and this is a much cheaper solution. There are many such plans available on the net, and a well structured search should do the job...Mike

 

[kb2vxa]

4800V power lines sounds like a 3 phase primary, seldom a noise source unless one has a severe leakage to ground problem somewhere down the line. Directly over a house sounds strange, power companies usually don't trespass on private property (200 foot airspace law) without an easement agreed to before installation and paid to the property owner.

In any case I suspect the noise is coming from one or more sources inside the house, radiating power lines normally do so at distances greater than 50 feet. First track it down and try to eliminate it at the source(s) following procedure given on these forums MANY times so please don't ask. The reason is simple, better to kill the noise than waste time and money playing around with antennas that may not solve the problem.

 

[tomhartley]

hi

internet radio ??

 

[jdemaris]

4800V power lines sounds like a 3 phase primary, seldom a noise source unless one has a severe leakage to ground problem somewhere down the line. Directly over a house sounds strange, power companies usually don't trespass on private property (200 foot airspace law) without an easement agreed to before installation and paid to the property owner.

I see you're from Point Pleasant. I used to spend a lot of time there 50-60 years ago. I used to hang out at Seaside Heights quite a bit. I assume the area has changed a bit since I last saw it.


The twin, bare, 4800 volt lines used to be 16 feet above my roof. It was that way when I moved here in 1979. Last summer a pole-crew came through, put in new poles and raised the wires to 20 feet above my roof. As to who gave whom an easement? I suspect the power company pretty much did what it wanted once it had secured vague far-reaching easements all over the place in my area in the 1930s and again in the 1950s. The old poles that just got replaced were dated 1937. My house was built in 1820. So . . . I know the house was here first. First electric company was Central Power & Light (named in most of the easements). Then Niagara Mohawk, and now the foreign-owned company National Grid. My house is the only house on this road - and it seems the power company took a short cut and ran the primary lines over my house and up through the woods instead of following the road where nobody lives.

As to the 200 foot air-space law you mention? Can't say I ever heard of it. US land law has its roots in Old English Law, which has ITS roots in Roman Law. The assumption up to the last 50-75 years was that a land owner in the US owned down to the center of the earth and up to the upper atmosphere. When air travel became the norm, this right was changed via the Supreme Court. Now planes are required to fly at least 500 feet above private property (for the most part). Private property owners in the US now - according to the Supreme Court still have rights to as high up as they can make use of - even IF it interferes with air traffic. Seems planes have what one might call a "prescriptive navigation easement."

I assumed the primaries should not be a problem. I long suspected the transformer or ground that's 75 feet from my house. But . . . last summer during the pole change a new ground and new transformer was installed. It made no improvement.

I'm probably going to sound a little wacky now - but besides the AM radio problem, we also had big problems with floppy disks in computers - that are pretty much extinct now. When computers first started using external disks, I had a fairly high failure rate with the big 5.25" disks. But . . when the 3.5" disks came out, I had an extremely high failure rate If they sat anywhere downstairs in our house - they'd go bad within a week unless we wrapped them up in some sort of tin-foil. If I kept the disks outside in my barn, they kept fine. So . . . I know something in this house was, and maybe still is strong enough to screw up the magnetic root formatting on those disks. I assume whatever it is - it's also the AM radio problem. Now - since I use optical DVDs for storage, or thumb drives - I have no more memory/storage failures. I've also wondered if radiation from radon gas could be the culprit - but never studied it much. I did test here and we do have radon gas - just as many homes in my area do (central New York).

The solar electric system I have with the twin 5000 watt DC to AC inverters make a lot of noise - but they are 200-300 feet from my house. They should not be an issue with AM reception here. If I drive a car up to my barn where the solar equipment it, I lose all AM signal once I get within 75 feet of those inverters.

I'm sure there are ways to isolate the reception problems with the proper equipment. But - I'm not looking to spend a lot of money on it. As things are right now - I could junk one of my old cars or trucks and leave it just behind my house. Then I could use the radio IN that car/truck and run wire into the house to run a speaker. That would give me great reception -but it all seems a bit ridiculous. If a car/truck can pull in the signal right behind my house - seems there ought to be some sort of antenna that can do the same.

Thanks to all for all the input.

 

[kb2vxa]

Just to get a couple of things out of the way first, the easement agreement if any would have been made with the owner of the property when the power lines were installed. Check the paper trail (ownership record) to find an easement or any CC&Rs (deed restrictions) so the latter if any don't come back to bite you some day.

I couldn't tell you about property rights specifically but I can tell you that there is a federal air space law on the books, above 200' is FAA jurisdiction. That's why there is a height restriction on unlighted structures including antenna towers and why the Fantasyland castle at Walt Disney World topped out at 180 feet, a flashing red beacon would rather spoil Cinderella's castle. the jist of air space is let's say your neighbor has an apple tree whose branches extend over your property. The branches that hang over and the apples are yours regardless of where the trunk is. If you don't want them, cut them and he hasn't a word to say about what you do with YOUR property. That should tell you what you can do about power lines without easement but let the power company handle the live wires. (;->)

Like I said, if there is leakage and/or arcing the resulting RF can be conducted for miles radiating all the way but first things first. Although it's been said many times many ways Merry Christmas... oh, got lost in song there... likely the noise source(s) are under your own roof. It's been beaten to death so I'll just tell you how to isolate it, turn off all circuit breakers and run the radio on battery power, then switch one on at a time, then off so you don't get confused. The one(s) that give trouble tell you which branch circuit(s) power the troublesome device(s). Once you find the branch circuit unplug all the usual suspects and plug-unplug one at a time until you have them isolated, then we (collectively here on RR) can take it from there. I don't think I have to tell you if the racket persists with no power at all to the house the problem lies elsewhere.

"internet radio ??"
If it's not electromagnetic waves it's not radio. <razz>

Oh, magnetic media (floppies) are only affected by strong magnetic fields so there's something downstairs that could wipe them like a vacuum cleaner or other unshielded electric motor not found in the barn. Was the house built over an old Indian burial ground? Does your daughter sit up at night staring at a blank TV screen and say "They're heeeEEEeeere."?

 

[CWR]

Just for fun one time , I took a 160 Meter 3/8 threaded mobile antenna , unscrewed the top whip , and replaced it with a 102 inch stainless steel CB whip , mounted it up near the roof on the side of the house , ran the Coax inside , and had the Best AM reception I'd ever had :

160 METER 3/8" THREADED MOBILE HF AMATEUR ANTENNA JTMHF160

 

[jdemaris]

Just to get a couple of things out of the way first, the easement agreement if any would have been made with the owner of the property when the power lines were installed.

I'm pretty much aware of all the easements. I've got three properties in different parts of NY and all of them are "littered" with old easements. Most are very wide-sweeping and vague. Something like the property owner Joe Blow grants rights to Central Power and Light in June, 1936. These rights include whatever the power company needs to do in order to run lines across the property. The perpetual maintenance easement is just as vague. It basically states that the said power company, heirs, assigns, etc. have the right to do whatever THEY deem necessary to keep the lines safe and accessible. No map, no specified course for the wires and poles, etc. Nowadays I doubt they'd ever get away with getting such easements. But back in the day, many rural people were eager to get electricity and getting easements was often easy. My 80 acres of woods and fields here in Otsego County has four separate easements that I know of - just for the power companies that have come and gone. Also one for a telegraph company that no longer exists. Two years ago the current electric company (no pun intended) asked me for permission to build a temporary road for access to some old high lines (major transmission lines). They asked for an easement and I refused. I DID give them permission to build a road to my specs, where I marked it and it would be for a one-time use only. When the road- building crew showed up (Asplundh contracted by Niagara Mohawk) - they built the road in the wrong place and ignored all the stakes and marks I'd put in. It turned into a mess. In the end they wound up paying me damages.

On the subject of property ownership and rights to the air above - it is as I stated and as you stated. We so-called property owners used to own from Hell to Heaven, more or less. But that was before air travel became an issue. The air travelers now have what amounts to "prescriptive navigation easements." In my town, over 90 % of all the public highways also exist due to "prescriptive easements." In regard to our property rights today - we still own up to the upper atmosphere, but we can't use it as we like and can't interfere with air travel. Just like public roads. We often own them but have no say what gets done in or on them. I own a 1/4 mile of public road here in NY and a 1/2 mile of public highway in northern Michigan. That ownership means next to nothing. I can't block the road, I can't plow it up and plant corn on it , etc. I just "sort-of" pay taxes on it. But to Michigan's credit - they figure in how much property a private land owner has that's used as a public highway and get a tax credit for it. When you really get down to it, none of us actually own property (as I see it). We pay rent guised as taxes. If we don't pay, the land gets taken from us.

Back to radios, another poster mentioned getting good AM reception with a 102" CB whip antenna. I've got one on one of my old trucks hooked to a combination weather radio and CB. I have to give it a try on AM and see what it does.

Also - about the floppy disk problem I had here. They went bad only downstairs. If we kept them upstairs they were fine. Same goes with our AM radio reception and noise problem. It the worst downstairs. That's why I mentioned the radon gas. Radon gas emits gamma rays that are electromagnetic. But I'm going to have to assume that if I had gamma rays that strong, I'd be dead already. I DO know I've got a relatively high level of radon gas, but so does most everybody else in my area. And testing only tells you that the radon exceeds what the health department deems safe. If you read the small print, nobody actually knows what "safe" is. In my case, I poured concrete over the dirt floor in the basement and assume the radon level has gotten better (but never tested again). Note that whey the old 3.5" floppy disks went bad here - they were completely ruined. I.e, it was not just a loss of info. They could not be reformatted- at least not with a computer.

 

[CWR]

Back to radios, another poster mentioned getting good AM reception with a 102" CB whip antenna. I've got one on one of my old trucks hooked to a combination weather radio and CB. I have to give it a try on AM and see what it does.

The CB whip wasn't by itself , it was screwed into the top of the loading coil on a 160 meter mobile antenna. Check the link I provided. IF you've never seen the loading coil on a 160 Meter mobile Ham antenna , It's HUGE !

 

[w2xq]

Wirelessly posted (Moto Droid Bionic: Mozilla/5.0 (Linux; U; Android 2.3.4; en-us; DROID BIONIC Build/5.5.1_84_DBN-74) AppleWebKit/533.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/4.0 Mobile Safari/533.1)

I'm surprised no one has suggested burying hardline or a quality-grade coax cable out to a point sufficiently far from the house. Grounds on both ends of the run. I have my feedlines in a 60 ft run of PVC pipe, along with a pull rope. A Beverage antenna is a great low noise receiving antenna; links on my Web site. HTH.

 

[W2NJS]

I'm surprised, too. But what's surprising me is that one has mentioned to the OP that probably the easiest way to receive WGY might be to get it online. I had no trouble hearing WGY here:

http://www.iheart.com/live/1413/?autoplay=true

That doesn't solve the OP's SW problem, of course, but it gets him WGY in real time at least.