mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Those Quantars do sound good. I've got a few at work, VHF and 800MHz. Hard to beat.
Amateur P25 popularity…
- Thread starter BMDaug
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Those Quantars do sound good. I've got a few at work, VHF and 800MHz. Hard to beat.
You were talking to the guy that put it all together. He has a lot more than I do. I have two P25 Quantars (Jacksonville & Newport) added to his network.
Thats the way it should be done. Most hams dont get that
Another thing that I've seen that contributes to the "pooh-pooh"ing of digital voice (looking at you DMR) is folks will get the ABSOLUTLY cheapest CCR they can find, then base their whole experience off of that. A GD-77 sounds like garbage with questionable processing, a dummy load antenna, buggy and confusing software, and a $.29 speaker driven by a whopping .1 watt audio amp with tinny and annoying af and call it quits.
I don't buy the "it's expensive", "software is $500", or any of the other myriad excuses for not running quality gear. I've literally peeled the screen protectors off of part 90 demo units I purchased for $100.
Meanwhile I'm running modified part 90 equipment with updated firmware, quality feedline and matched speakers. That would be the same as someone getting one of those Chinese keychain QRP hf thingies, having a crappy experience then proclaiming that hf is trash.
Looking back I can see why the OG's in the Motorola ham radio club were so protective of their original DMR network.
In the earlier years of P25 (public safety monitoring) EVEN I was a naysayer. BUT, I was monitoring with 1st gen consumer grade equipment. A decade later I'm still monitoring the same systems on APX and updated XTLs and my opinion is a total 180. Smooth dynamic audio that a lot of times rivals analog with all the added benefits of digital.
I remember when DMR TG 3100 was wall-to-wall 24/7 with folks begging for codeplugs. I, on the other hand enjoyed building and perfecting my codeplugs to actually LEARN the TDMA technology. I was thirsty for knowledge. I wanted to LEARN the different protocols, what made them different, the advantages, and what I needed to do to play with them and experiment. So many folks on the air didn't even know how in the heck TDMA worked but just wanted a plug 'n play hotspot and drag 'n drop codeplugs. It's sad that we leave so many of the advantages of digital on the table. Digital isn't just voice, as they all possess very powerful tools for geo-location, selective calling, etc.
I don't mind hotspots, but only probably because I was an early adopter and actually had to compile images, solder headers, learn about TTL/USB protocols, IP basics, and built a color touch screen multi-mode hotspot before they hit the mass Ebay/Amazon market. Building those early hotspots FELT like ham radio to me as I was learning new skills and pushing the boundaries of my skills.
I don't buy the "it's expensive", "software is $500", or any of the other myriad excuses for not running quality gear. I've literally peeled the screen protectors off of part 90 demo units I purchased for $100.
Meanwhile I'm running modified part 90 equipment with updated firmware, quality feedline and matched speakers. That would be the same as someone getting one of those Chinese keychain QRP hf thingies, having a crappy experience then proclaiming that hf is trash.
Looking back I can see why the OG's in the Motorola ham radio club were so protective of their original DMR network.
In the earlier years of P25 (public safety monitoring) EVEN I was a naysayer. BUT, I was monitoring with 1st gen consumer grade equipment. A decade later I'm still monitoring the same systems on APX and updated XTLs and my opinion is a total 180. Smooth dynamic audio that a lot of times rivals analog with all the added benefits of digital.
I remember when DMR TG 3100 was wall-to-wall 24/7 with folks begging for codeplugs. I, on the other hand enjoyed building and perfecting my codeplugs to actually LEARN the TDMA technology. I was thirsty for knowledge. I wanted to LEARN the different protocols, what made them different, the advantages, and what I needed to do to play with them and experiment. So many folks on the air didn't even know how in the heck TDMA worked but just wanted a plug 'n play hotspot and drag 'n drop codeplugs. It's sad that we leave so many of the advantages of digital on the table. Digital isn't just voice, as they all possess very powerful tools for geo-location, selective calling, etc.
I don't mind hotspots, but only probably because I was an early adopter and actually had to compile images, solder headers, learn about TTL/USB protocols, IP basics, and built a color touch screen multi-mode hotspot before they hit the mass Ebay/Amazon market. Building those early hotspots FELT like ham radio to me as I was learning new skills and pushing the boundaries of my skills.
k6cpo
Member
LOL, I completely agree. You still can’t talk around the world with an ht… this is what I dislike about hotspots. The expensive ht and hotspot may as well be a cordless phone you can buy at Walmart for $20. Only difference is that the phone operates in a different band but in some ways, hotspots are actually more basic because it’s not a private line. You’re effectively in a party line like you were for much of the 20th century… call 589 ring 2 and ask for Bob…
kb9mwr
Member
There is the problem, the technical advancement should ideally be done by the hams (end users) themselves. When the manufacturers do it, then it becomes a vendor locked/controlled mode.
The manufacturers in my opinion should create a general purpose software defined radio with open firmware. Software developer hams can then do the rest. At this point a one standard won't happen, nor does it make sense anymore. We need flexibilty, the ability to "flash" / "update" our radios when a new mode comes along. We need an application level just like smart phones have. And there is no reason that cannot happen.
Did you buy a new HF rig just to try FT-8? Of couse not, you downloaded an application that interfaces to your existing rig. That is what needs to happen for VHF/UHF. Give us RF hardware with a API.
Think WRT-54G open source project for a HT.
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I got excited to get a P25 UHF radio to go digital, then I decided to listen to the P-25 capable repeaters to learn the nuances of the operators.
The takeaway I learned was that the local machine was quiet. All too quiet in the largest city in the State. When I rant to myself about the lack of amateur use of repeaters in Arizona, why get into a mode that has far fewer users?
The takeaway I learned was that the local machine was quiet. All too quiet in the largest city in the State. When I rant to myself about the lack of amateur use of repeaters in Arizona, why get into a mode that has far fewer users?
If you're talking about Phoenix, you can talk to the Chicagoland area via P25 (FISHFAR) on one system. You NEED to check your listings AGAIN. AZ has a few nice systems...may not be linked though.
Well that’s not what I said at all, but that’s fine… I use the internet all the time as a learning tool for radio and I use linked repeaters (because they happen to be linked, not because I’m trying to talk across the country), but calling the internet ‘radio’ is like saying “Ya, I’m a radio operator because I use WiFi on my phone to post to this forum”.lol the “real ham radio doesn’t use internet” complaint is such a snooze
For me, radio is about the art of point to point wireless communication. Knowing how the atmosphere is going to affect transmission and reception… Knowing how various antenna types affect propagation… at least that’s what fun for me and I still have much to learn there. Having the ability to communicate point to point with just my own equipment, not relying on infrastructure that’s already taken for granted is awesome! But like I said pages ago, to each their own.
-B
lol the “real ham radio doesn’t use internet” complaint is such a snooze
Not really. Have a read around some of the other forums. There are a ton of angry people because the ARRL won't let them claim 70cm DXCC using DMR hotspots. No joke! So instead, they log it in QRZ and beg people to submit the contact so they can get their 100 countries there. Hang out on 91 for an hour or so and you'll hear people calling CQ and begging for the QRZ log afterward. Embarrassing. Would be easier to just pick up the phone and call somebody in each of those places, or email them. No different.
Don't get me wrong. I have a hotspot. I use DMR repeaters on the various networks every now and again. But to think that's it somehow DX and you're working all these other countries on your HT? Dumbest thing I've seen in the amateur radio community in years.
The problem with P25 is that many hams have become appliance operators. They don't care to learn about codeplugs and programming. They want to spin the VFO and call it a day. The only reason you see the DMR boom is because hams are also notoriously cheap. When you weigh the $25 radio vs. learning a to build a codeplug, they take the $25, and then just beg people on the internet for pre-built codeplugs.
That's why P25 is never going to catch on. The radios are more expensive than a Baofeng, and there aren't a lot of pre-built codeplugs shared.
kb9mwr
Member
For the most part I don't care if something catches on. Am I learning something? If yes then my objective has been fulfilled. If its the lack of pre-built code plugs for P25, then you'll likely have a smarter, but smaller group to talk to on P25. Nothing wrong with that, as a matter of fact that is my preference.
And, they are. See the M17 project. Trouble is, the M17 idea came after D-STAR, DMR, System Fusion. M17 is a good idea, but they are swimming upstream especially when you have dirt cheap DMR radios and cheap repeaters from Yaesu. In other words, the manufacturers are controlling the technical advancement.
kb9mwr
Member
M17 is an admirable project, and its nice to see hams from so many countries working together, Aside from the competition, they still need to get some manufacturer to actually put something into production and get this on the shelves at HRO, etc. But you are correct it has to be competitvely priced and/or offer something that the current stuff on the market does not. If they can get something that also includes a legacy AMBE mode, then I'd say they will have something. Hams have been waiting for something fair priced that does more than one mode. P25 while not the most popular, would be a good legacy mode since by now all the patents should be expired.
Project25_MASTR
Millennial Graying OBT Guy
Talking around the world with an HT doesn't require the internet. Doesn't even require TCP/IP. It can all be done with technology 80+ years old.
I think that, in context, this was in response to someone proposing that a HOTSPOT let them talk around the world with an ht… Now if you’re talking about a six meter ht or even two meter on a good day, then sure, however, that was not the implication of the original writing. Miniaturization is amazing isn’t it?!?!
-B
Project25_MASTR
Millennial Graying OBT Guy
I'm talking about plain copper lines...been in use for over a century for transporting audio around the world.
Ah yes… but that’s nothing to do with radio. What point are you making exactly? Is it that using a hotspot is like a new age telephone? I’m lying here in bed, LingMAO, trying to figure out if you have a serious point to make or if you’re just being silly!!! There are many ways to communicate, but I think the point is that a phone isn’t considered DXing and neither is a hotspot. You just made my evening lol!!!
Goodnight Sir,
Brian
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
What he was pointing out was that radio systems have been using 2 wire and 4 wire copper links for a -very- long time. That's still used today to connect dispatch centers to repeater sites, connecting multiple repeater sites to increase coverage, and permit many other types of communications.
There is no limitation on distance with a copper link run through a central office.
Linking DMR repeaters over IP isn't really anything groundbreaking. IP is just a form of transport, just like conditioned copper pairs are. Hams sometimes act like they invented this stuff, linking radio sites has been done for a very long time. Only difference now is that everyone has an IP connection and a cheap radio...
Wether or not it's considered true DX will depend on who you ask. One thing I can guarantee is that if you ask the opinion of 100 different ham radio operators, you'll get at least 150 different answers, and it's very likely a fist fight will break out between half of them. After that, a bunch of new ham radio clubs will be born out of it and new repeaters go up.
You know what the say about opinions, right?
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