An Encouragement for Highly Experienced & Well Seasoned Operators

[StrugglingNewb]

As the username indicates, I'm relatively new to amateur radio, about 8 months now. As I was exploring and considering this hobby, one quality that really stood out to me was the concept of Elmers as mentors to those new to the hobby. I looked forward to that relationship and the growth in amateur radio it would provide. I met some members in a club in a "sorta" nearby town (40 miles). There were several of the members who were ready, willing and actually anxious to help me. But, I chose to join a club in my area. There are some very accomplished operators in this club and several are involved in ARES and ARRL, quite a collection of experience and knowledge. But I've struggled to grow & learn in this club. It seems to me that those members who have such vast experience are not really interested in helping a new guy like me. I ask questions, but I am given short or cryptic answers. I've made it clear that I could use some coaching, but nothing. The best I get from them is correction when I say something incorrect. In fact, today they just laughed at something I said about antennas. In all fairness, there is one operator who has been helpful, but his career (corporate exec) is very consuming, and he simply doesn't have time to do more with me. He probably would if I asked, but his available time is so limited, I dare not ask. I've been discouraged for a while now, and I'm not sure where I'll go from here. I read a lot, but sometimes I just need help. In short, I'm discouraged, and even though it requires a 45-50 minute drive, I'm considering moving to the other club.

Here's my point, if you are an experienced operator, offer to mentor the new folks. Turn their incorrect statements into teaching opportunities instead of self-aggrandizing opportunities. If they are asking a lot of questions, that might be their way of saying, "help me". Not everyone is going to walk in and say, " I need an Elmer". Take the lead, and let them know you are available and willing to be on standby for them. There are parts of this hobby that can be overwhelming, so try to reduce that stress and make a pathway for learning and accomplishment.

 

[trentbob]

As the username indicates, I'm relatively new to amateur radio, about 8 months now. As I was exploring and considering this hobby, one quality that really stood out to me was the concept of Elmers as mentors to those new to the hobby. I looked forward to that relationship and the growth in amateur radio it would provide. I met some members in a club in a "sorta" nearby town (40 miles). There were several of the members who were ready, willing and actually anxious to help me. But, I chose to join a club in my area. There are some very accomplished operators in this club and several are involved in ARES and ARRL, quite a collection of experience and knowledge. But I've struggled to grow & learn in this club. It seems to me that those members who have such vast experience are not really interested in helping a new guy like me. I ask questions, but I am given short or cryptic answers. I've made it clear that I could use some coaching, but nothing. The best I get from them is correction when I say something incorrect. In fact, today they just laughed at something I said about antennas. In all fairness, there is one operator who has been helpful, but his career (corporate exec) is very consuming, and he simply doesn't have time to do more with me. He probably would if I asked, but his available time is so limited, I dare not ask. I've been discouraged for a while now, and I'm not sure where I'll go from here. I read a lot, but sometimes I just need help. In short, I'm discouraged, and even though it requires a 45-50 minute drive, I'm considering moving to the other club.

Here's my point, if you are an experienced operator, offer to mentor the new folks. Turn their incorrect statements into teaching opportunities instead of self-aggrandizing opportunities. If they are asking a lot of questions, that might be their way of saying, "help me". Not everyone is going to walk in and say, " I need an Elmer". Take the lead, and let them know you are available and willing to be on standby for them. There are parts of this hobby that can be overwhelming, so try to reduce that stress and make a pathway for learning and accomplishment.

Without becoming embedded in this thread, you're in the right place, don't know how you got here, but you can depend on, and be guaranteed, support, encouragement, and education here. Welcome.

 

[mmckenna]

Not all hams are Elmers. Not all Elmers are hams.

Finding the right person to help you may require looking outside that specific ham club. Not all ham clubs have the type of people.

 

[alcahuete]

First off, welcome!

Some clubs simply don't want new people in their little clique, so you are going to be met with exactly the attitude you're seeing. Others are very welcoming. If you're not getting good vibes here, time to move to another club. Don't waste your time.

The way I look at it, ham radio is not rocket science. It's nowhere close. That's not to say there's no place for elmering and mentoring...there very much is. But the elmering and mentoring I see taking place a lot is damn near like a professor lecturing a student in a classroom. They'll sit you down and tell you to watch them talk on the radio. Or they'll give you same paper and show you how to build some ridiculous antenna. Most of what you're going to learn in ham radio is by actually doing ham radio.

Get your head out of the books and theory and find yourself a club or elmers who actually get out and do ham radio. We have a particular club here in SoCal that I'm an off and on member of (because of the distance) that goes out and operates 2 or 3 times a month. Sometimes small groups of those folks get together even more than that. We set up in a park or someone's house and we do ham radio. Some people build antennas and try them out at these events. Some people are trying new stations. You name it, we're doing it. You're going to learn a ton by just doing ham radio. But if you're in a club where the members don't get together and operate, that's not going to happen.

And of course when we're together, we're also talking shop, etc. Technical questions come up. Operating questions come up. And there's no such thing as a stupid question. We're all sitting around doing ham radio, eating, drinking, and having a good time together. It's a very welcoming environment, as opposed to sitting in a monthly meeting in row upon row of chairs, while everyone sits and listens to the President's Report, oh now it's time for the Treasurer's Report. Any check-ins on the club repeater? Oooooo, time to approve last month's minutes. GTFO with that. That's not what ham radio is about.

 

[K7MEM]

I have been licensed since 1965 (59 years ago) and have never needed a Mentor (aka Elmer). When I got my license, I was attending a Vocational/Technical high school and was learning electronics. However, the school was about 15 miles away and I had to find my way there, and home, every single day using public service busses. After school, I worked at a local hospital, for the night shift ER/X-Ray department, pushing patients around on gurney or wheel chair. So, I didn't have much time for friends, clubs, or mentors. However, the school had a large library of QST magazines and I read every last issue. In fact, I read absolutely everything I could get my hands on. And still do.

However, I have been a Mentor. At work, I met a guy who's father was a ham and he use to be a ham. He was a Morse operator in the Air Force and was stationed in the Azores. He copied code all day on a mill. But he let his license expire and didn't know how to get it back and get on the air. I helped him through learning Morse code all over again and today, he has a Extra license and is back to copying over 20 WPM. In fact, we both worked our way to Extra together.

One of the activities that I employed as a Mentor, was going to ham fests together. It wasn't intentional, it just happened. There wasn't much that I didn't recognize, but everything was new to my friend. We would spend hours together talking about the gear on the tables and to the sellers. I still love going to ham fests and ogling over the gear that, I read about, but was never able to afford. I don't think I ever bought anything that wasn't broken. But that was on purpose. You get things cheap, and I like to home brew and fix things.

Today, all my equipment is over 40 years old. It still operates, or can be repaired. Currently, I live with my son, but with him at work every day, I am basically alone. Well, except for my four dogs, They are great because, they let me talk all day about radios. I have even taken one of them to a ham fest with me. Although, I keep the talking to my dogs down while I'm in public.

IMHO, Take your time finding a Mentor. Sooner or later, you will gravitate to someone. In the mean time, keep on reading. There is a internet archive that contains all of the old issues of QST, 73 Mag., Ham Radio, QEX, etc.. You don't have to go back to the 50s or 60, but issues from the 80s, 90s and newer are still relevant. Sometimes I spend all day just reading old magazines. The articles usually provide good explanations. Although, sometimes you have to read the same article sever times before it sinks in.

 

[MTS2000des]

Those of us "old farts" (been licensed since 9 in 1986) need to stand up and take notice: the newer hams are our responsibility to welcome, be available to assist, and not piss and moan at them. They will carry the torch when we are long gone. It's the minimum we owe for all the fun we've had over the decades with amateur radio.

 

[AK9R]

Get your head out of the books and theory and find yourself a club or elmers who actually get out and do ham radio.

This.

New hams will make mistakes. New hams will offend people with their ideas or operating practices (I was there once). New hams will need to figure out a lot of stuff on their own. New hams need encouragement and guidance. Don't just tell them they are doing something wrong. Show them what they did wrong, why it was wrong, and, more importantly, show them a different way of doing things. "You're wrong, kid. Get outta here," doesn't build new hams.

Likewise, new hams have to be open-minded. Some of the stuff the old hams will tell you may not initially make sense. And, the old ham may not be able to adequately explain it. That's your clue to do some of your own investigating in an effort to find an explanation for what you were told. Telling the old ham to "---k off", which happened to me recently, is not going to help you learn or help you build a relationship with those who travelled this path before you.

 

[tweiss3]

@StrugglingNewb Sorry to hear of your struggles. Welcome to RadioReference, and welcome to the hobby. The concept of "elmer" often is wildly different than what you may have imagined in your head, and it may be that those with the knowledge are just not able to communicate it effectively to be any help.

The wonderful thing about amateur radio is a great place for trial and error. You can experiment to your hearts desire, and will likely have a few failures that only make the success much more pleasurable.

You mentioned there is another club that is more helpful. While the travel distance may be less desirable, you could also start email conversations with individuals there. Don't be afraid to sketch your ideas and include them. Try to be more precise with your questions, and include your end goals. This goes for posting here as well, as many of us would be happy to help guide you as best we can.

Start with what is your first goal, what equipment do you have (or are looking at), and what do you want to do with it? What have you done so far, and what hasn't worked for you? Lets see if we can help you out.

 

[mastr]

Here is my take on a couple of aspects of this-

(1) I will gladly help a "newb", IF that person has made an effort to accumulate some basic electricity and RF knowledge. If you have an amateur radio license obtained by just memorizing the test answers without understanding them, I am not going to be the one to give you the education required to gain that understanding.

(2) I have been lucky to have been helped by others when I started out, and have helped several "newbs" who satisfied the above prerequisites. Giving a new ham a good but no longer used piece of equipment and hearing the results on the air is more satisfying than looking at that equipment sitting on a shelf.

(3) Those who ask for my opinion or advice, then argue with it - "but (other person) said, blah, blah and..."- need not ask again.

 

[ladn]

Welcome to ham radio!

Sometimes finding a club with the right "fit" is like finding the right pair of jeans or a favorite beer (I like jeans and beer). And like a good pair of jeans, groups become more comfortable over time.

There's a good group of people here on RR (many of whom have already replied to your post) who are well versed in ham radio, and electronics in general.

 

[GlobalNorth]

If they ever did exist, Elmers died off when DeSoto, Packard, and American Motors stopped making autos.

There are some YouTube video producers that know their amateur radio and know video production - KB9VBR is one. Visit clubs - a lot of them. Some are insular and others have a wide level of experience.

If you go with YT, I suggest you might avoid the guy who mugs for the camera on opening scenes on his videos. He becomes annoying in a short time.

 

[AK9R]

Elmers died off when DeSoto, Packard, and American Motors stopped making autos.

Maybe in your world, but not mine. I've been licensed since 1991 and have been elmered by several very helpful hams. Heck, I'll list a few of them: N5CEC, WB9CIF, N9ICE (sk), KB9BVN, WA9FDO.....

 

[mastr]

Maybe in your world, but not mine...

Same here. I still have a well constructed Heathkit "antenna tuner" that was a gift from a (usually stubborn, cranky, irritable) very knowledgeable (now SK) friend who I keep in mind when others ask for help. When you asked a stupid question, he would tell you it was just that and briefly explain why. If you asked for more explanation, you got "I told you enough to start with, go find out for yourself".

One day several of us were having coffee and I said I was saving up money to buy a tuner. The next words I heard were, "Come by my place when we leave, I will give you one". I now guess that I had somehow passed prerequisites 1 and 3.

 

[k6cpo]

Here is my take on a couple of aspects of this-

(1) I will gladly help a "newb", IF that person has made an effort to accumulate some basic electricity and RF knowledge. If you have an amateur radio license obtained by just memorizing the test answers without understanding them, I am not going to be the one to give you the education required to gain that understanding.

(2) I have been lucky to have been helped by others when I started out, and have helped several "newbs" who satisfied the above prerequisites. Giving a new ham a good but no longer used piece of equipment and hearing the results on the air is more satisfying than looking at that equipment sitting on a shelf.

(3) Those who ask for my opinion or advice, then argue with it - "but (other person) said, blah, blah and..."- need not ask again.

There are some things that should learned early in a hams career. One is to read the manual thoroughly for any radio or other device you might acquire. I got jumped on in a Facebook group by posting the following when someone posted that they had forgotten how to unlock their radio. "There is this nifty little thing that's included with every radio. It's called a 'manual.'" And it was of the other members, not an admin or moderator. At that point I felt I had nothing more to gain being in the group and left.

 

[AK9R]

We all deal with questions that can be answered with "RTFM". But, I don't think saying that helps people. If they are unfamiliar with the terms or are seeing terms that aren't like other radios with which they are familiar, they may not know where to look in the "fine manual".

An approach that seems to help is for me to look in the manual for the answer. Then do a screen capture of the appropriate text or diagram in the manual and include that in my response with a "Here's what the manual says on that topic. I found this on page xx."

Frankly, "There is this nifty little thing that's included with every radio." comes off as flippant and disrespectful of the person who asked the question. But, I'm not your mother. My idea of manners may not coincide with yours.

 

[mastr]

...I got jumped on in a Facebook group by posting... "There is this nifty little thing that's included with every radio. It's called a 'manual.'" ...

Any group where people are that thin skinned is not for me, and I am certainly not for them.

 

[AC9KH]

In short, I'm discouraged, and even though it requires a 45-50 minute drive, I'm considering moving to the other club.

Personally, I would say your first mistake is going with the herd mentality and getting involved with "clubs". They are the bain of ham radio, most of them are centered around their repeaters with some mistaken concept that they are somehow "emergency communications experts". You will learn ham radio by studying and experimenting on your own, and thru doing that you will grab the attention of one of the "Elmers" who will take you under his/her wing when they see you have interests in learning that go beyond being an appliance/repeater operator. Very few, if any, of the actual "Elmers" belong to ham radio clubs because it is a waste of time with what ham radio clubs have become.

 

[CKnobb]

Has anyone heard from the OP since starting this thread? Sounds like plenty here willing to help. I've been licensed since 1978 and have always been willing to help as well as willing to learn. Very often a 2-way street. Interestingly, back in the advent of the no-code Tech overhaul, we provided classes and subsequently had an influx of new Techs, and welcomed them into the club ( I was a VE at the time). Ironically, once in the door, many of them shunned us old timers and ridiculed our antiquated modes and ways. The newbies drove many of us out of the club. Go figure.

 

[mmckenna]

Has anyone heard from the OP since starting this thread?

Last seen: Feb 25, 2024.

He's probably gone, forgotten about us, or otherwise moved on.

 

[CKnobb]

StrugglingNewb, we hardly knew ye.