Anne Arundel and MAA TRS?

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ka3jjz

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This morning I noticed something that hasn't been repoted yet, at least as far as I know. I'm new with my 396, so perhaps this is something that has already been noticed, but I found it interesting...

There was an aircraft reporting an emergency, and the BWI fire dispatch came up with the report. An AA county chief responded, and there was also some activity on the BWI Fire ops talkgroup. In and of itself, that wasn't what interested me - a moment later, the Chief showed up on the MAA system tg13, and it didn't sound like a patch (although it's certainly possible that it was). Fortunately the emergency was called off, and MAA came on their system to say that mutual aid could go available.

Anyway it makes me wonder whether the County now either has some MAA radios, or has a new zone set up for MAA. Wasn't it some time ago that we heard that all the AA fire radios had to be turned in for some reason? Perhaps this was the reason?

Still, interesting....73 Mike
 

dpm797

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If that Anne Arundel County Chief were on a NEW Motorola 5000 portable radio MAA is in Zone 4. If not it was the patch. The mobile radios are NOT P25 compatiable. Note: do not confuse being digital and P25 compliant compatibale. The Motorola 3000 portable radios in the field on most units are digital but not P25 compatiable.
 

troymail

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It's a patch --- for example, Anne Arundel 4-A is patched to the BWI Dispatch (TG 13), Anne Arundel 4-B is patched to BWI/MAA Fire Ops (TG 14) etc.... I'm not 100% certain but I'm pretty sure the other surrounding counties have a similar arrangement.

BWI used to be on the AA County system using Zone 4 and now that they have their own system, mutual aid things are just patched.
 

dpm797

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The new Motorola 5000 portable radios are programed with the MAA system in Zone 4. Most of the MAA fire Talk Groups are will be there. The stuff that used to be in Zone 4: BWI and the X-ray Talk groups have been moved to Zone 9. Queen Annes that was in Zone 9 is now going to be in Zone 8 behind Calvert County. There are not many of these radios in the field yet. The county has not deployed them officially. Right now mainly on the Fire Marshals Office has them with this programming configuration. Some Staff Officers and a few Chiefs have them.
 

dpm797

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What used to be Zone 4 the BWI and X-ray Talk Groups in analog are now actually Zone 64. Also What used to be Zone 1 Fire analog talk groups is Zone 61. Zone 1 on a new 5000 is Fire Digital.
 

troymail

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I'm willing to stand corrected -- and you're right - the new radios are capable and I suppose the chief may have gone to the new zone and been directly on the MAA system. I heard the call and all AA County units called in responding one after the other - they all sounded the same to me but I may have just missed it.

Is zone 4 in the mobile radios on BWI/MAA or would they just be patched?
 

dpm797

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The Mobile Radios that the county has are NOT P25 compliant. The MAA system can not be put in the Mobile radios. That is why the patch between the 2 systems exits and will continue into the forseable future.
 

ka3jjz

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dpm, aren't at least some of the handhelds now P25 capable? I thought I had heard this at some point...and it certainly isn't hard to use a handheld as a mobile - heck, hams do this all the time...73 Mike
 

ResQguy

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ka3jjz said:
dpm, aren't at least some of the handhelds now P25 capable? I thought I had heard this at some point...and it certainly isn't hard to use a handheld as a mobile - heck, hams do this all the time...73 Mike
Most, if not all, the AA portables are "P25 capable" even though they might not have those features currently flashed.

And trust me, it would be very hard to stick the 16 DEK buttons (AA calls them SMEs) from the county's Syntor9000 & Spectra mobiles on a portable radio. :)
 

FPO703

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If the radios are XTS5000 or XTS3000, They ARE P25 compatible. What's this "they are digital but not P25 compatible." BS? If it's a Motorola system, or a P25 system made by another manufactuer, then, the radios ARE P25 compatible.

All of the AA County chiefs should have direct access to the MAA system. There shouldn't be a patch. When I was out there last fall, the AA County Chiefs had direct access to the MAA system. And, I'm willing to bet they still do.
 

ka3jjz

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Ah, now that makes sense, seeing as I heard the chief on tg13, which was not a patch tg (which would have been 14, or does a P25 system use the old tg+1 rule for patches?). The audio was quite good, too - sometimes with patches, the audio is muffled a bit.

73 Mike
 

dpm797

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Well IF the XTS3000's are P25 compatiable it is news to our current Motorola Rep/Programer. We have tried programming the current 3000's with the MAA system and it DOES NOT work. FYI Balt City, Queen Annes, and Howard systems which are digital are NOT P25 systems. The MAA system is the ONLY P25 system close to AA county that we need to have access into. Beforethe P25 system of the MAA we bought our new digital system (not a P25 system). We purchased all NEW mobiles. The mobliles we purchased are not P25. We are not going to purchase new mobiles again this soon. The new 5000's are P25. Unlike the police cars; Fire Engines, Ladder Trucks, and other apparatus DO NOT use convertacoms. That is what makes the portable radio in police car be a mobile. Officers in AA county only have one radio. You remove the portable radio from the convertacom you have no communications from the vehilce. That would be a disaster for fire ground operations. The PATCH between Anne Arundel TRS and MAA TRS is planned to remain in effect for a very long time. Also it is my understanding that when Balt County E5 and Tk5 come to BWI on a response they switch to the AA TRS BWI Talk Group not the MAA system TG. AA is not the only juristdicition around BWI with the P25 compatability issue.
 

dpm797

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P25 is a system of setting the radio up analog or digital that any manufactures radio will work on the sytem. P25 comes from an APCO project standard for interoperability. (APCO is the Association of Public Safety Communications Officials). The MAA system is the only system in the region that is currently designed around this new non proprietary platform. Most Public Safety radio systems are built on a proprietary(single vendor) basis. With the advent of 800 MHz trunked systems by more than one vendor. APCO came up with a standard so that a P25 compliant radio could be programmed to work on any trunked radio system......Interoperability was the influnencing factor officially. But single vendor strong holds were another. If you have a P25 system you do not need to purchase ALL of your equipment from that single vendor. You may have Motorola repeaters and Dispatch consoles. M/A com mobiles and Johnson portalbes or whatever. Currently on trunked radio systems that are not P25 compliant you must purchase you operating hardware (all radios) from the vendor which manufactured/installed your system.
 

dpm797

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APCO has played a major part in creating Police, Fire, & EMS communications center standards over the years. They have many Project standards that effect the daily operation of most all 9-1-1 communications centers across the United States. The P25 standard is only a small fraction of that. APCO is the comm center equivilant to the Fire Sevices NFPA ( National Fire Protection Association) or Law Enforcements CLEA (Certified Law Enforement Agencies)
 

ResQguy

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dpm797 said:
Well IF the XTS3000's are P25 compatiable it is news to our current Motorola Rep/Programer. We have tried programming the current 3000's with the MAA system and it DOES NOT work.
If I explain it like this it should make sense. You can't fit H37 SMARTNET Systems Operation and Q361 ASTRO 25 9600 Baud Trunking in a 1MEG radio at the same time. In order to make the radio work on the MAA system, you would remove its ability to operate properly on the AACo system. And AACO will need to operate on PGCo system soon enough, so now would be a great time to start replacing those discontinued radios. Wilmers should be able to explain this in person.
 

dpm797

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I understand that the 3000s are not compatable. The new XTS 5000s will problably be deployed to all units, (currently just some test units in operation) after the completion of the acceptance test. The acceptance test is supposed to begin in June and is predicted to take 6 to 8 weeks for completetion. As for the Mobiles radios; it is been determined to be cost prohibitative to replace all those radios since they were ALL new just several years ago with our NEW 800 MHz system.
 
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maus92

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XTS 3000 radios are designed to work with either mixed mode systems that employ P25 encoded audio - like the TRS's in Howard, Baltimore City, Montgomery, QA, etc. - as well as "true" P25 TRS's like MAA. Being able to program both types of TRS's in the same radio at the same time, and then having the ability to switch between the systems is cannot always be supported.

CA
Annapolis
 
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baydog

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I'v e been listening to a conversation between AA County Fire Alarm and BWI PM 44 and 43. In trying to switch PM 43 to a reserve unit, when the SME was used in PM 43 it showed PM 44 on the air. Fire Alarm allowed that the fleet map was "screwed up" since BWI got new radios. After trying a few things, the parties descided to continue things by phone.

David
 
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