Another Reason For "open" Radio Systems

[brey1234]

Landeen had waded up to his chest in the chilly water and was about to swim the final 15 yards to the boat. "The gentleman had a rope tied around his wrist, so he was staying with the boat," Williams said. "He had a lifejacket on, which probably saved his life. He couldn't respond when we threw a line to him. He was hypothermic, and he was fatigued from the waves and being in the water."
http://deseretnews.com/dn/view/0,1249,635203439,00.html

 

[Utah_Viper]

Thats awesome. you should try to have the put on the RR front page news. This is definaltley a good article.

 

[JoeyC]

Not to be a spoil-sport, but this situation could also have gone sour with the newsman becoming a victim as well. People racing to the scene of incidents to either help out or capture the moment are also good reasons to close a system to avoid such.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic.

 

[N_Jay]

Not to be a spoil-sport, but this situation could also have gone sour with the newsman becoming a victim as well. People racing to the scene of incidents to either help out or capture the moment are also good reasons to close a system to avoid such.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic.

Thanks. (I have been biting my tongue all morning)

Stories like this are similar to the "I was thrown to safety" anti-seat belt stuff that gets published.

 

[fastattackus]

A great example is yesterdays garage fire in Salt Lake. Channel 4 had incredible coverage and it was fun to watch, but I was on the 2nd in engine and the channel 4 van parked right where we needed to park and stopped. The camera man then hopped out and left the vehicle. After being told rather forcefully to move it, he finally did, then set up his camera and tripod in the middle of the road where we were running our supply line from the hydrant and the 2 1/2 inch backup line which we needed to put out the great volume of fire in the garage. He was asked multiple times to move and was moved physically once by a bystander. I freely admit it was great fire footage, but he was really in the way a couple of times. Especially with his vehicle at the start. I know he just happened to be close when the call came in and heard it on his scanner, but that's the danger of people (including reporters) responding in for a closer look. Sometimes before you know it, your in the way and making a difficult job harder. Anyway, enjoy the hobby, just keep safe and remember that somewhere in the mess, people are trying to work and may get a little upset if your caught in the middle.

 

[hoser147]

A person whether a scannist or anyone needs to think about the situation before getting involved and possibly creating more victims. Not to downgrade some one for doing a good deed which the reporter did and all worked out well, however I have seen the situation go the other way also...........hoser147

 

[qlajlu]

however I have seen the situation go the other way also...

We have all seen it happen when the rescuer becomes part of the problem. In fact, we have all seen where the rescuer becomes THE problem and/or THE fatality. Making a decision requires information. That cameraman/reporter could see no help on the beach or approaching from the open water and he knew the approximate depth of the water. He processed that information and made a decision. Most of us reading this forum would have tried also. How could you live with yourself or sleep if you didn't? Especially if the man overboard had died.

...the[news] van parked right where we needed to park...then set up his camera and tripod in the middle of the road where we were running our supply line...

However, becoming a hero is not the intended use of our scanning hobby and blocking emergency equipment for any reason, whether intended or not, should be treated as a criminal act. It seems to me that some news people, more often than not, disregard the victim except for "news value." They also go after "the footage" to the exclusion of everything else. I enjoy the news clips as much as anyone else, but if getting it endangers people or property, it is not worth it.

 

[shootinnews]

To the scene first?

Not to be a spoil-sport, but this situation could also have gone sour with the newsman becoming a victim as well. People racing to the scene of incidents to either help out or capture the moment are also good reasons to close a system to avoid such.

Not trying to be negative, just realistic.

Being a news photographer myself I have noticed a couple of things on this post. As a news photographer our job is to capture the news, whether it is as it happens or the aftermath of it and in Utah I think allot of people lose sight of that. Folks in Utah don't like or understand the Media, why are you here or why were you not there is what we hear the most in news. If you are there why didn't you do this or that. Point being if the photographer arrived to the scene before EMS units arrived and videotaped a man drowning and did not help could you imagine what the headlines would look like then! And because he was a photographer for a news station is the only reason there is an issue here.

A great example is yesterdays garage fire in Salt Lake. Channel 4 had incredible coverage and it was fun to watch, but I was on the 2nd in engine and the channel 4 van parked right where we needed to park and stopped. The camera man then hopped out and left the vehicle. After being told rather forcefully to move it, he finally did, then set up his camera and tripod in the middle of the road where we were running our supply line from the hydrant and the 2 1/2 inch backup line which we needed to put out the great volume of fire in the garage. He was asked multiple times to move and was moved physically once by a bystander. I freely admit it was great fire footage, but he was really in the way a couple of times. Especially with his vehicle at the start. I know he just happened to be close when the call came in and heard it on his scanner, but that's the danger of people (including reporters) responding in for a closer look. Sometimes before you know it, your in the way and making a difficult job harder. Anyway, enjoy the hobby, just keep safe and remember that somewhere in the mess, people are trying to work and may get a little upset if your caught in the middle.

As for the news photographer from ABC 4 parking in the middle of the street blocking fire trucks from getting to the scene is garbage. We all know where to park when arriving at a scene. Being as close to and incident as a fire truck should not be an issue. If a photographer is injured by stupidity from shooting something then that is our problem. That is why laws such as Californias Penal Code 409.5 for media is a good thing. One of these days Utah might get a clue and do the same. Then the media wouldnt try so hard to get as close as they can to capture the video. Boundires are set for everyone including the media.

As for closing the system would only create a bias state and more problems for dispatch centers that will be hounded to no end by the news desk trying to get info on an incident. Or if you chose to live in a state that has no clue of what is happening in there community then a closed system is what you need.

if I have misinterpreted any of the post then I apologize but I don't think I did.

PS I was not the photographer at either scene but know both photographers and I am speaking on behalf of myself and no one else.

 

[qlajlu]

Several years ago I wore a badge in the State of Utah. I handled many "newsworthy" events and had the news media contact me in regards to those events. Working with news people can be tricky for law enforcement, especially when the officer has information that needs to be held confidential. Most Utah news professionals respect that, but every profession has its "10%," its "cowboys," its "ambulance chasers," its "paparazzi." We have all listened to interviews where the same questions are asked over and over with only a few words changed, like the interviewer wanted a specific answer and was trying to force it out. Some of the questions have been ludicrous and others simply asinine.

Folks in Utah don't like or understand the Media, why are you here or why were you not there is what we hear the most in news.

All in all, I think the news media in Utah does a very good job. The newsman/cameraman who decided to attempt a rescue on Utah Lake did a brave thing. This thread started out on the premise that an open system is best for all. It is when the "10%" attempt to become a hero by using this open system that it becomes dangerous and could jeopardize our scanning hobby. We should not be roasting the news media here; we should be roasting the "ambulance chasers."

 

[shootinnews]

We should be roasting the ambulance chasers!

We should be roasting the ambulance chasers. I couldn’t agree more just tell that to my Managers at my station. That would go over well! I should probably also say that most all agencies work well with the media and that there is less then a hand full that don’t. I guess in the past they have been burnt by the news and I can see how that can happen. But I think that in most cases there are no confidentiality issues, such as when we ask if there was a fire at a location and the reply is, no comment at this time even though the building is burnt to the ground. State the facts is all we ask and if there is something that cant be told until a later time then so be it and we move on!

“Paparazzi” That’s what I think most of the folks in Utah think of news media. But unfortunately that couldn’t be further from the truth!

Where exactly is this thread going anyway? Is it about a closed radio system or about the media being in places that they shouldn’t be at like lets say maybe a News Story? Just wondering! If it is about the news media this thread will go on for months and I would like for that NOT to happen.

Lets get back on the subject of someone saving the life of another and not only point it out because of that person’s career during the time of the rescue!

Agreed!

 

[qlajlu]

Confusion in terminology

When I wrote we should be roasting the ambulance chasers, I meant that we should get down on the over zealous people that use the scanner as a means to put themselves in a place to try to become a hero. This is the person that is starved for recognition. It may also be to get as close as possible to watch a situation unfolding to satisfy a morbid curiosity. Whether it is for self satisfaction and/or to impress peers makes no difference, this type of person is dangerous to himself, those in distress, and the general public.

It is well known that the news media uses their scanners for "leads" to new news stories and as I stated earlier, I think they do a good job, on a whole, here in Utah. We all know that the police and fire departments are not going to get on the phone to the media to say they have an incident occurring at such and such a place, so the scanner becomes the media's bread and butter. If that puts a news person in a place ahead of rescue personnel like on Utah Lake a couple of days ago, that becomes a legitimate situation because he was there to do a job; it is what he is paid to do. That is the difference.

I agree that there seems to be a very fine line here. I just hope you who are reading this understand what I am trying to say. However, I am still adamant that anyone who gets in the way of officials at the scene of an event, for any reason, should be charged with interfering.

Without an open system for scanners, the 10 o'clock news in Utah would become very dry watching indeed.

 

[shootinnews]

However, I am still adamant that anyone who gets in the way of officials at the scene of an event, for any reason, should be charged with interfering.

Maybe Officers should start putting up Crime Scene Tape then there would never be a question on where the media or anyone else for that matter can go. There would never be an interference issue again. Problem solved!

Without an open system for scanners, the 10 o'clock news in Utah would become very dry watching indeed.

DRY LOL, thats for sure. This is what your nightly 10PM news would look like, Good evening and thanks for joining us, tonight we have found out that the tulips in front of the downtown city county building have started to sprout we will bring it to you live once they have fully emerged, in other news little Billy of salt lake is going to get his tooth pulled at a newly remodeled downtown dentist office let’s take you there live!

I hope we never have to see the day come when radio systems are closed here because not only would we not know what’s happening in our own community, which we all have the right to know, but the News would never be the same in Utah.

With that said, In other News!

 

[qlajlu]

Maybe Officers should start putting up Crime Scene Tape then there would never be a question on where the media or anyone else for that matter can go. There would never be an interference issue again. Problem solved!

Shootinnews, I am on your side on this deal about an open radio system. The news media in Utah are unwilling to jeopardize their almost free rein at the scene of an incident, they know to stay out of the way, so they are mostly respectful at the scene trying to do their news gathering job without interfering. You have to admit, though, there are those "cowboy""paparazzi" news people who don't seem to understand that and the onlooker who wants to get up close and personal. Those are the ones I abhor. Luckily, cowboy-paparazzi are almost non-existent in Utah.

Crime scene tape is not the answer because at the scene of a two or three alarm fire, for instance, it would be a joke.

 

[brey1234]

As someone who has been in the news field for 30 years please let me reply.
http://www.wnep.com/Global/story.asp?S=624265&nav=menu158_2

First of all I realize journalists, or the public, do not have a "right" to monitor---however we do have a "need" It's a simple part of the fourth estate monitoring/reporting on an arm of government. Closed/encrypted systems will lead to one thing: Our viewers will all of a sudden be living in a "safe" environment. Why? Because the only news you will hear will be a rehash of news releases the police issue, if they issue them at all.
Don't get me wrong--I believe drug stakeouts etc should be scrambled for officer safety---but dispatches to car accidents/burglaries etc should not.

 

[shootinnews]

Thank you Bob

Actually Bob we do have a right to monitor scanner traffic in Utah and so does Pennsylvania as you will notice at this website. In Utah most of the agencies do use a digitally encrypted channel when working certain scenes and/or swat situations and I agree with that. So I couldn’t agree with you more with what you said.

Our biggest problem here in Utah is like what you said, they don’t want to let the people know that they could be living in an unsafe environment in the city they reside in! For example Orem and Provo City in Utah County will only allow the Captains (acceptable) to talk to the media but if they don’t think something we call on is news worthy enough to them, they will not return calls. On many occasion we have called directly and replies are usually; I don’t see the news importance in that story so I will not tell you what is going on, no comment. I’m sorry but if I here someone is shot and killed in the middle of the day in the center of town (happened) I’m going to think there is some news worthiness to that!

And that is why we better hope that there is still an opened system after the 800mhz reband has taken place because if it doesn’t we will all be living in Happy Valleys!

Thanks again for your reply Bob, well said!

 

[qlajlu]

...we do have a right to monitor scanner traffic in Utah and so does Pennsylvania as you will notice at this website.

That was an informative Web site (An Overview of State Scanner Laws), shootinnews. The information is out of date (the last copyright was 1998), but can serve as a guide line.

...we better hope that there is still an opened system after the 800mhz reband has taken place...

I didn't know that our "open system" was threatened by the rebanding. The rebanding is only for the consolidation of like 800 MHz systems. Nothing I have read indicates that any "rules" have or are going to be changed or be imposed. Do you have information about this, shootinnews?

The FCC, to my knowledge, does not make rules about whether a transmission will be encrypted or not. They simply issue licenses for transmissions to be made on certain frequencies by a particular group or agency and enforce against stray frequency use. Local law determines whether or not it is illegal to scan public service frequencies. The upcoming rebanding does not involve local law makers (yet) to my knowledge. It is entirely an FCC mandate.