another simulcast question

[superman2112ms]

Saint Charles Kane County, IL. I Did an experiament with my car and a BCD436hp and a Larson NMO triband antenna. I live 10 miles from one site almost due south and 10 miles from one almost due west. I parked between 2 buildings with metal siding. I believe that helped to negate the tower to the south. My reception improved greatly. So my question is this. If I get a Yagi antenna facing west mounted in the attic can I put up some metal barrier to help reduce the interference from one of the sites to increase directionality and reception?

 

[fredva]

This sounds like the old coffee can trick - put an antenna inside a metal can on its side with the open part (top) of the can facing the transmitter you want to receive, and the bottom of the can used to block signals from the other directions. Some people claimed it helped but for me in my location, it did not. That was just one of the techniques I tried, without success. Going to an SDR setup with OP25 software for home monitoring and later getting an SDS-100 that was portable solved my simulcast issues.

 

[trentbob]

Saint Charles Kane County, IL. I Did an experiament with my car and a BCD436hp and a Larson NMO triband antenna. I live 10 miles from one site almost due south and 10 miles from one almost due west. I parked between 2 buildings with metal siding. I believe that helped to negate the tower to the south. My reception improved greatly. So my question is this. If I get a Yagi antenna facing west mounted in the attic can I put up some metal barrier to help reduce the interference from one of the sites to increase directionality and reception?

If I could suggest, as the x36 radios I've been around for a while now there is so much on the internet including radio reference. if you were to do a search five different ways, starting with bcd436 and simulcast issues/ radioreference.com you are going to come up with so many hits. Try wording it other ways also and you are literally going to see tons and tons of stuff with all of the gimmicks and attempts to put a square peg in a round hole.

I remember my County came out with a tdma phase ll simulcast system in 2015 about a year after your radio was introduced.

A yagi antenna was one of those attempts. It basically receives what's in front of it with a smaller teardrop area of reception behind it. You would mount it on a broom handle and then a floor lamp or tripod and you would literally just have to move it while listening to the radio to try to pin down one single site.

There were many other gimmicks to desensitize reception like the coffee can set up like above, drilling a hole in a used paint can and sticking the rubber duck in it, using a paper clip, using a comet CH 32 miracle baby, changing the p25 threshold from Auto to manual and trying a 7 or 8. Some folks tried to apply a one or two second "system" hold time".

It's all location and system based. Me and other news guys needed dependable radios that didn't miss transmissions or have broken and clipped transmissions, we didn't have the options that you have today and we ended up getting Motorola RX only radios.

So as I say there are countless videos on the internet and threads on radio reference that address this issue. It'll make for great reading and you'll have no limit to the amount of help you'll get being that the radios have been around for so long. Good luck.

 

[Ubbe]

If I get a Yagi antenna facing west mounted in the attic can I put up some metal barrier to help reduce the interference from one of the sites to increase directionality and reception?

It should be enough with just the antenna if it has enough directivity/gain. Perhaps 6-10 elements. There might be another site in the same direction 20 miles away and the terrain and buildings could make that 20 mile site equal in strength as the 10 mile one. So it can never be predicted if it will work or not to use a directional antenna to overcome simulcast issues. If you are going to try then get a 20dB variable attenuater to enable you to adjust the signal level precisely to where you only receive one site. But as always with these methods you will run into big problems with other systems ansd frequency bands, using that antenna. But then you might have another scanner for that kind of use.

/Ubbe

 

[Hit_Factor]

The YAGI antenna also has nulls, facing it directly away from the site you don't want to hear might work best. Take your time with it, spin it a full 360 degrees, take notes, find out what direction works best.

 

[Whiskey3JMC]

So as I say there are countless videos on the internet and threads on radio reference that address this issue. It'll make for great reading and you'll have no limit to the amount of help you'll get being that the radios have been around for so long. Good luck.

There's an entire radioreference wiki devoted to the topic linked here that I regularly refer all simulcast distortion inquirers to check out

 

[W9WSS]

How are you able to monitor any entity on the Kanecomm Starcom21 talk groups? Since its inception, installation, and deployment, all talk groups are encrypted. Are you just watching UIDs on a scanner/computer tracker utility?

 

[superman2112ms]

How are you able to monitor any entity on the Kanecomm Starcom21 talk groups? Since its inception, installation, and deployment, all talk groups are encrypted. Are you just watching UIDs on a scanner/computer tracker utility?

Thanks for the suggestions. Yes they are encrypted. Tri-com for what I am looking into. However I am getting unecrypted hits. I am working on finding out what they are. St. Charles, Batavia, Geneva is my interest at present.I need to start notating TGID info to better research the info. We all know sometimes unecryption happens. I moved out this way to Aurora when Open sky went on line an I gave up scanning. Now I live in Saint Charles and just trying to find things to monitor as well as maybe get lucky once in a while. I am trying to enjoy the hobby again. Only this time it does require some real effort. No longer a passive hobby. Learning the software and scanner relationship in definatly not passive. Give me my old scan Illinois book and my Pro43 and A Delorean and I would be happy. Lucky for me once Du-Com filled the Pro43 I didnt touch the keypad much. My goal at the moment is to get 1 continuous run of decent coax to my RS discone. I just bought a cheap $20 Yagi from ebay for 700/800 mhz. I plan on possibly building a yagi with more directors for better gain. I can not decide if I should upgrade the discone or not. I have Dupage airport across the street. I need to find a local person to walk through the build with me. I have questions at times that are not always answered in instructionals or I dont understand something. It is time for me to put into action some of the things I learned since this journey of scanning started in the early 80'. Typing after Eye Dialation is a bit rough.

 

[fredva]

I'm not familiar with your area and how units are dispatched there, but according to the STARCOM21 database page, under Kane County - Tri-Com 911 Central Dispatch Talkgroups, there are several unencrypted talkgroups for fire departments and a few other agencies. For example, "Fire North Dispatch: Batavia, Elburn, Geneva, St. Charles" is listed as unencrypted.

 

[superman2112ms]

I'm not familiar with your area and how units are dispatched there, but according to the STARCOM21 database page, under Kane County - Tri-Com 911 Central Dispatch Talkgroups, there are several unencrypted talkgroups for fire departments and a few other agencies. For example, "Fire North Dispatch: Batavia, Elburn, Geneva, St. Charles" is listed as unencrypted.

And these are a few systems I am working on catelogging and listening to. I am in experiment and monitor phase of discovery. I am well aware of that that is working against me. While gaining knowledge and experiance with the software and the radio I am putting together my list of hardware needs that I can optain for the $300 range +-. coax needed and antennas. I also can receive ISP tollway District 15. But I need the coax and at least 1 additional antenna for starters.

 

[superman2112ms]

How are you able to monitor any entity on the Kanecomm Starcom21 talk groups? Since its inception, installation, and deployment, all talk groups are encrypted. Are you just watching UIDs on a scanner/computer tracker utility?

I am just experimenting with what is not encrypted and looking for those occasional comms that may be open. I understand The wall I am up against.

 

[superman2112ms]

There's an entire radioreference wiki devoted to the topic linked here that I regularly refer all simulcast distortion inquirers to check out

Thanks. I have read through it more than once. I at least have district 15 also. I need to check a few channels. I keep getting patrols by the schaumberg area. 90/294 tollways.

 

[superman2112ms]

So all of this aside and I ask a dangerous question. With new coax is the Diamond Discone worth $120 if I have a RS discone from the 90s. Please just keep it simple. I am not looking for a metered analasys.

 

[fredva]

What you invest in might be influenced by what you think your primary interest would be. IF you think your primary interest lies in what you can hear on the STARCOM21 simulcast site and you were willing to spend an additional $300, I personally would consider selling the 436 and getting an SDS-100. For a simulcast site, I think that would buy you a whole lot more than swapping discone antennas, if that is what you are thinking of doing. Now if you want to listen to something else, like aircraft, railroad, marine, business, etc., then that might change the approach. Whether a Diamond Discone would be a noticeable improvement over the RS discone, I can't say.

I'm speaking as somebody who sold a 436, put the money toward an SDS-100, and haven't regretted it. So that's where I'm coming from.

If you want to get an idea of what is available for listening, you can listen to this TriCom Fire Dispatch live feed: TriCom Fire Dispatch Live Audio Feed The feed scanner is an SDS-100.

 

[scanmanmi]

I live in a rural area but I would take my scanner with me and it was completely garbled and I wanted to throw it out. I had a 15 element 900 mhz ham yagi sitting around so I hooked it up. What a difference. I can now pick up that system 60 miles away. Not only that but I am hearing other entities that associate with surrounding areas. There's not much behind me to it worked out quite well directionally. I don't think a cheap yagi near a simulcast will be much help but let us know.

 

[Ubbe]

The YAGI antenna also has nulls, facing it directly away from the site you don't want to hear might work best. Take your time with it, spin it a full 360 degrees, take notes, find out what direction works best.

The directional pattern from a yagi antenna usually looks like in this picture. So the best way are to follow your advice and to sit at the antenna with the scanner and try out different directions. You usually also have reflections off buildings and terrain to consider.

/Ubbe