• To anyone looking to acquire commercial radio programming software:

    Please do not make requests for copies of radio programming software which is sold (or was sold) by the manufacturer for any monetary value. All requests will be deleted and a forum infraction issued. Making a request such as this is attempting to engage in software piracy and this forum cannot be involved or associated with this activity. The same goes for any private transaction via Private Message. Even if you attempt to engage in this activity in PM's we will still enforce the forum rules. Your PM's are not private and the administration has the right to read them if there's a hint to criminal activity.

    If you are having trouble legally obtaining software please state so. We do not want any hurt feelings when your vague post is mistaken for a free request. It is YOUR responsibility to properly word your request.

    To obtain Motorola software see the Sticky in the Motorola forum.

    The various other vendors often permit their dealers to sell the software online (i.e., Kenwood). Please use Google or some other search engine to find a dealer that sells the software. Typically each series or individual radio requires its own software package. Often the Kenwood software is less than $100 so don't be a cheapskate; just purchase it.

    For M/A Com/Harris/GE, etc: there are two software packages that program all current and past radios. One package is for conventional programming and the other for trunked programming. The trunked package is in upwards of $2,500. The conventional package is more reasonable though is still several hundred dollars. The benefit is you do not need multiple versions for each radio (unlike Motorola).

    This is a large and very visible forum. We cannot jeopardize the ability to provide the RadioReference services by allowing this activity to occur. Please respect this.

Antenna Advice Needed

Status
Not open for further replies.

Captain715

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
107
Location
Columbia, PA
I am currently involved in the spec process for a new Engine. We have come across a "dilemma". We currently have a need to install the following antennas on the roof:
  • 1 - Low Band (33MHz)
  • 1 - VHF Band (150MHz)
  • 1 - UHF (VRS antenna)
  • 1 - Cellular/GPS/WiFi (low pro puck style)
These will be installed on the lower roof surface on a 20" raised cab (2008 Spartan Gladiator Chassis), that already has the AC compressor, 61" lightbar and an AM/FM antenna on it. The option for going to the higher roof surface is out of the question due to the current height, taking the garage doors and tree limbs into account.

Any suggestions at to which side of the roof to mount on with which band?

I think we might be able to get away with the compressor shroud if absolutely necessary, but don't really want to if we don't have to.
 

CCHLLM

Member
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
1,020
One suggestion would be to eliminate the need for 4 antennas by using a dual band 150/450 antenna with a duplexer. Duplexers are available for under a hundred bucks or less, depending on quality levels, and if the antenna is properly installed and trimmed, you won't notice any degradation of signal. I have done this for numerous 150/450 vehicular repeater setups.

With that said, it's really best in these situations if the 150 and 450 radios tied to the same antenna are not transmitting simultaneously, if that's a consideration in anyone's circumstance. My personal truck has a dual band antenna that's used by two separate radios that are not in a vehicular repeater setup, but I'm also not transmitting on both simultaneously.
 
Last edited:

Captain715

Member
Joined
Mar 4, 2004
Messages
107
Location
Columbia, PA
One suggestion would be to eliminate the need for 4 antennas by using a dual band 150/450 antenna with a duplexer. Duplexers are available for under a hundred bucks or less, depending on quality levels, and if the antenna is properly installed and trimmed, you won't notice any degradation of signal. I have done this for numerous 150/450 vehicular repeater setups.

With that said, it's really best in these situations if the 150 and 450 radios tied to the same antenna are not transmitting simultaneously, if that's a consideration in anyone's circumstance. My personal truck has a dual band antenna that's used by two separate radios that are not in a vehicular repeater setup, but I'm also not transmitting on both simultaneously.

The idea of a dual band antenna and duplexer sounds good, but unfortunately the VRS is a Pyramid in UHF and the Low band (33MHz) is the other radio in the setup. The VHF is our "private" frequency along with the Borough There are and have been times when the low band and the VHF have been used simultaneously, which would mean the UHF and VHF could be used in the same manor.

I am looking for spacing requirements / isolation distances for the different frequency bands. How far is far enough between the different antennas? Is there any combination that should not be placed on the same side of the truck?
 

CCHLLM

Member
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
1,020
Spacing? As far from each other as is physically possible with the least amount of compromise on ground plane. Clear as mud, huh?

Low band and UHF can be placed on the same side, and the puck antenna and the VHF can be placed on the other. That combo will make the spacing less critical, but if you use 1/4 wave antennas for the UHF (~6.5 inches) and for the VHF (~18.25 inches), their placement in respect to height becomes less critical.

If you're placing these antennas on a large ground plane at sufficient spacing, and you're using a repeater or simplex system that isn't 30 miles away, you'll probably not suffer a bit using 1/4 wave antennas vs gain antennas. Gain antennas properly placed on a good ground plane will be superior, but they will also be more narrow in bandwidth and will be more sensitive to placement near other metallic objects.

No matter what type of antennas you choose, make sure the antennas are spaced as far as possible or at least something more than a 1/4 wave length away from each other and other metallic objects.

The low band. Well, the low band is going to be a compromise no matter whether you use a base loaded antenna or a 1/4 wave because there's no way you can get the antenna a 1/4 wave length away from anything on the truck. The low band will really be sensitive to the proximity of almost any objects closer than a quarter wave length and will not like small ground plane mounting.

I suspect you'll be locked into using a base loaded low band antenna in order to get it on the roof. The most forgiving low band base loaded antennas I've worked with are the Larsen NMO series, and I don't find that the versions with a spring will survive any better than the straight versions. Neither likes tree limbs or low door heights. Whatever will bend the straight one at a sharp angle will also destroy the spring in only a few hits. Note: it's the little wire inside the spring that suffers from repeated stresses, especially the quick and close ones, and once the little wire is broken, the antenna will cease to work well or tune. The spring really just means it's not likely to be damaged on the first strike.

Here comes the most important part of frustration relief: if the roof of the truck is aluminum, and I'm pretty sure it will be, it'll be as much as 3/16 inch thick. That'll mean that if you use NMO mounts, you'll need the ones designed for thick roof mounting. Otherwise, if you just get the standard mounts you'll have 4 mounts that won't work....period. There are two thick roof mounts: one for up to ~1/4 inch or so, and one for maybe an inch thickness. The ones for an inch or so are terminated with an SO-239 connector and will require a PL-259 on the antenna end of the feedline, so you'll need room on the inside of the roof for that connector and the extended connector portion of the mount plus room for the bend in the cable. A good right angle connector does the heart and the antenna mount good here and keeps involuntary vocalizations about somebody's mother to a minimum.

Hope some of this helps.
 
Last edited:

byndhlptom

Member
Joined
Nov 1, 2005
Messages
399
Location
JoCo, KS (SoDak native)
antenna mounts

I'd mount the GPS/cell antenna on the raised section anyway if it is a low profile 'puck'. I'd mount the low band as centered as possible on the lower roof, with the VHF and UHF on either side. This gives the low band the best chance to be omni, the VHF & UHF will work well with a smaller ground 'space'.

Another option is to locate an antenna behind the cab on the fire body. often there is a flat area near the front that would work.

good luck, thanks for the service to the community.

tom
 

flecom

Member
Joined
Jul 14, 2006
Messages
94
Location
Miami, FL

multiple band splitter/combiners are diplexers, duplexers are for single band... pet peeve sorry :lol:

another suggestion would be to put the VHF on the FM/AM antenna using a stico antenna

but if you use a diplexer to put your UHF and VHF on the same antenna you should be able to transmitt on both at the same time as long as you dont exceed the maximum power of the diplexer/antenna
 

CCHLLM

Member
Joined
May 10, 2003
Messages
1,020
Duplexer, diplexer, pet peeve or not, perhaps you should contact Comet Co., Ltd and inform them of their error. :D I'm looking at my model CF-416 DUPLEXER. It has three coaxial terminals, one marked "COM", one marked "1.3-170 MHz", and one marked "350-540 MHz." This is the model I have used for vehicular repeater installations and in my personal cache of equipment.

And as for transmitting on each band simultaneously on a duplexer/diplexer, the issue isn't whether it can be done within the power limitations of the unit or not, it's about mixing and spurious emissions from the less than ideal suppression characteristics of these units because they are simple diplexer/duplexers, not combiners.

And yes, in some restricted antenna sites, we have installed dual band combiners on pairs of repeaters to utilize dual band antennas, mostly 150/450 combos. And yes again, they can be a biotch to tune. In every case, tuning either the transmit antenna side or the receive antenna side ends up being a pain in the rectoleum. Most of the time it's the transmit side that takes the most effort and vocabulary. :(
 
Last edited:

lmrtek

Active Member
Joined
Feb 11, 2009
Messages
534
First of all spec Larsen antennas.

They will outperform and outlast anything else.

The low band being the longest, will have to be located low enough to avoid damage.

Since the UHF is a third harmonic of the VHF antenna, they must have maximum separation, vertical separation if possible.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Top