Antenna Help for SDR of WSP North Marysville

[skippy2235]

I have been listening to SERS since the beginning. I have a BC246T (non) P25.
This week I learned about SDR, and just got 2 RTL usb dongles.
I have wanted to listen to WSP for years, but could not afford P25 scanner.
Yesterday I set it up and found, that my signal comes and goes, from 100 to 0 health. average is about 40. When health is good, I do hear some talking for brief moments, so I know it works.
I am using the Rattlesnake M6 mini antenna and magnetic mount, that came with the dongle. I have placed the magnet on a 1FT square X 1/16 inch of steel for a ground plane. That helps but not enough.
Any ideas on antennas that work in the 700/800 range that work, about $50 range.?
I live in North Marysville near Winco and Navy Base, near the WSP office. I am also thinking the signal should be good being this close to the WSP antenna.
Dave

 

[nessnet]

"2 TRTL dongles...."
What software are you using to decode the P25? Or, have you crossed that bridge yet?
I ask, because WSP 700 is P25 Phase II. As is JIWN. Only conventional is P25. Remember, phase II requires software that will decode it. Not all will.

Note: WSP....
Currently, you may pick up traffic on all 3 (700, conventional and JIWN). Generally, (in King Co anyway), 700 is being used the most here. I hear a lot of traffic from down south (Kitsap/Mason off of Gold) on JIWN, but I (think) conventional is still active also. So, you have to consider all 3 to listen to WSP. Really, the only way to effectively monitor WSP is with a scanner, (to scan all 3).

Washington - WA State Patrol Scanner Frequencies and Radio Frequency Reference

Justice Integrated Wireless Network Trunking System, Various, Multi-State - Scanner Frequencies

WA State Patrol Trunking System, Various, Washington - Scanner Frequencies

As to antenna, that all depends on you situation, target frequency and location.

 

[ww7ch]

In the D1 (Tacoma) area I've found that the only way you're going to hear all the WSP traffic is by listening to VHF P25 conventional.

The WSP 700 system (in the Tacoma area) often doesn't have any subscribers affiliated to [Tacoma] TGs and there are periods where there is no traffic (when there actually is traffic). This is the same with SS911's system - WSP TGs are present on that system only when subscribers are affiliated (most likely Sheriff units on scan and WSP units roaming to that system in the south end where I live), and that isn't consistent. Both East/West VHF freqs appear to be patched full-time so it's consistent.

I know this doesn't help you specifically for your area, I just thought I would mention this in case this also applies to up there.

 

[nessnet]

It's interesting how terrain and water (ducting) affect reception. I live at the N end of Lake WA, and pick up Gold, clearly (JIWN Kitsap/Mason). But, I never hear any Pierce Co traffic. Conventional occasionally. 90% is on 700. (Maybe I need to tweak some site ranges a bit...)

A bit off topic:
Lately, I wonder if WSP 700 has been using FEMA. A week or so, I was up there on the hill (under the damn thing) and I tried to analyze it (SDS100/King Simulcast 700.) Weak, barely decoding the control channel. It should have been -60 - -70.... No, I see the same thing down at the bottom of the hill, so I'm not saturating the front end....

Whichever actual site I'm getting is down below -100, so intermittent marginal signal many days. Anyone know what is going on with WSP 700 and the FEMA site?

 

[devicelab]

Any ideas on antennas that work in the 700/800 range that work, about $50 range.?

Your best bet is something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Tram-1411-Discone-Scanner-Antenna/dp/B00QVNI1V0

But you'll need to get it outside and up as high as possible. EMT conduit from HD or Lowes makes for a cheap mast. Run RG8x coax cable (or better) from it to your receivers and you'll be golden.

 

[ww7ch]

Your best bet is something like this: https://www.amazon.com/Tram-1411-Discone-Scanner-Antenna/dp/B00QVNI1V0

But you'll need to get it outside and up as high as possible. EMT conduit from HD or Lowes makes for a cheap mast. Run RG8x coax cable (or better) from it to your receivers and you'll be golden.

+1 on that. Good all around performer.

@skippy2235 If you want better performance on 700 you'll need to get a something like a Wilson 314411 (slightly over $50) for a directional, or one of the omnis sold by DPD Productions ($175 range) if an omni is needed.

In the Marysville area the closest WSP 700 site is King Lake but if I remember correctly, much of D7 is P25 VHF conventional.

A bit off topic:
Lately, I wonder if WSP 700 has been using FEMA. A week or so, I was up there on the hill (under the damn thing) and I tried to analyze it (SDS100/King Simulcast 700.) Weak, barely decoding the control channel. It should have been -60 - -70.... No, I see the same thing down at the bottom of the hill, so I'm not saturating the front end....

Whichever actual site I'm getting is down below -100, so intermittent marginal signal many days. Anyone know what is going on with WSP 700 and the FEMA site?

I drove by the FEMA site (via Meridian Ave) in October to verify that site for a different system (using SDRTrunk) and WSP 700 is coming out of there for sure but the CC changed frequently...like at least 3 times in a 5 minute period. A bit out of the ordinary in comparison to the Motorola systems I usually monitor.

 

[nessnet]

I drove by the FEMA site (via Meridian Ave) in October to verify that site for a different system (using SDRTrunk) and WSP 700 is coming out of there for sure but the CC changed frequently...like at least 3 times in a 5 minute period. A bit out of the ordinary in comparison to the Motorola systems I usually monitor.

Thanks for the response on this.
I'll have to look at every freq I guess. I have RTL (X2) and Fast Lane, so I have the tools, but the signal is soooo weak, I can't actually ever decode squat. I see a small blip at 774.03125, but it is barely out of the noise floor and it is the listed King Simulcast control channel. My 200 will pull stuff in, but it's -110 or worse and can be right at the edge of decoding sometimes.

Where I'm at (just down the hill, but still fairly close), it should be booming in here and I should see a big spike, (SDR#), but it's just barely there. This is on a dedicated 700 antenna (W/ MCA204M feeding both) and SDR# doesn't show any other spike anywhere close that would be saturating the front end / interfering with a 100 or 200.

Anyone know what they are doing with that site...? The "3 times in a 5 minute period" is very curious. I'm fairly positive they didn't change all of King Simulcast's CCs (all 4 actual radio sites) in that time period, (I would think anyway), so WTF is going on with FEMA...?

 

[ww7ch]

Thanks for the response on this.
I'll have to look at every freq I guess. I have RTL (X2) and Fast Lane, so I have the tools, but the signal is soooo weak, I can't actually ever decode squat. I see a small blip at 774.03125, but it is barely out of the noise floor and it is the listed King Simulcast control channel. My 200 will pull stuff in, but it's -110 or worse and can be right at the edge of decoding sometimes.

Where I'm at (just down the hill, but still fairly close), it should be booming in here and I should see a big spike, (SDR#), but it's just barely there. This is on a dedicated 700 antenna (W/ MCA204M feeding both) and SDR# doesn't show any other spike anywhere close that would be saturating the front end / interfering with a 100 or 200.

I'm decoding/monitoring traffic on WSP King Simulcast clear down here in south pierce co...CC is parked on 774.03125 and hasn't moved lately. So I'd think you'd at least be able to pick up Cougar Mtn? The data I recorded showed that the FEMA site was one of the King Simulcast sites so it should be a mirror reflection of all the other sites in that simulcast system.

You able to pick up the King Lake site ok? It's not simulcast with the other sites but you should still be able to hear plenty on it...

 

[nessnet]

I'm decoding/monitoring traffic on WSP King Simulcast clear down here in south pierce co...CC is parked on 774.03125 and hasn't moved lately. So I'd think you'd at least be able to pick up Cougar Mtn? The data I recorded showed that the FEMA site was one of the King Simulcast sites so it should be a mirror reflection of all the other sites in that simulcast system.

You able to pick up the King Lake site ok? It's not simulcast with the other sites but you should still be able to hear plenty on it...

I'm closer to the river, so Norway hill is not the best for line of sight to Cougar. King Lake is not so hot either because of the Bothell hills. Without FEMA (here), it is tough. Other options for KSimul are Squak, and the VA on Pill Hill. All those suck here also, (or one of them is where I'm getting the -110??).

That is why I'm wondering WTF. It (FEMA) seems to be AWOL.

 

[skippy2235]

Thanks for your help.
If I get the amazon antenna shown in post #6, is there a way to share that antenna with 2 RTL dongles?

 

[ww7ch]

Thanks for your help.
If I get the amazon antenna shown in post #6, is there a way to share that antenna with 2 RTL dongles?

Yep:
Strisdberg Engineering MCA204M
Multicouplers

 

[nessnet]

Thanks for your help.
If I get the amazon antenna shown in post #6, is there a way to share that antenna with 2 RTL dongles?

Skippy......
You didn't answer my question above, so I'll be more direct.
Most all RTL software available does not decode P25 phase II.
JIWN and 700 are both Phase II

You need to figure out HOW you are going to decode it first.....

 

[devicelab]

Most all RTL software available does not decode P25 phase II.
JIWN and 700 are both Phase II

You ever hear of DSDPlus?

And IWN is NOT Phase 2.

 

[devicelab]

Yep:
Strisdberg Engineering MCA204M
Multicouplers

I wouldn't recommend the amplified units. Go with the passive. They're a lot more stable. It does depend on your location but more than likely the amp will just cause a lot of problems.

 

[nessnet]

You ever hear of DSDPlus?
And IWN is NOT Phase 2.

If you are correct on both, I will stand corrected. But, that is not what I understand.

OP25 is one option, but takes a lot of work.
Yes, DSDPlus, is the other option, but my understanding is that DSDPlus FASTLANE is required.

If this is not the case, maybe lend me a hand on this? I'd be glad to take any advice (off line if you want).
I got the RTLs and have DSD+ and Fastlane (also Unitrunker) - I just have not had the time to actually get it all to work (PII).
Any advice, since you seem to know all, would be appreciated.

JIWN:
Sure look like it to me...

System Name: Justice Integrated Wireless Network Location: Various, WA OR DC VA County: 44 counties System Type: Project 25 Phase II System Voice: APCO-25 Common Air Interface Exclusive Last Updated: April 12, 2021, 2:11 pm (Changed Site # 032 (Karakul Hills) to 032 (Karakul Hills))

 

[devicelab]

nessnet, If your Prius's GPS told you to drive off a cliff you'd probably do it...

 

[AJAT]

I am up in Snohomish County, I get D7 (west sno and Marysville) on conventional with just my rubber duckie antenna, on my base station with a small discone outside I can pick up North king county as well. Using DSD fast lane or SDRtrunk I can get king county patched with Seattle metro with a 800 MHz rubber duckie, I think the king lake site, 700 MHz.

 

[skippy2235]

Skippy......
You didn't answer my question above, so I'll be more direct.
Most all RTL software available does not decode P25 phase II.
JIWN and 700 are both Phase II

You need to figure out HOW you are going to decode it first.....

So in my fist post I stated that using SDR software. That means, Unitrunker, with DSDplus.
I do get some voices scanning the 774.05625. My health is variable and sometimes I get voice that I can hear and understand.
Example I heard, Getting on the off ramp give me the air. Also heard roadway is clear, but then signal dies goes to red bars, and then nothing until I move my antenna around and get it again.
I am really closes to getting good signal just very variable.

 

[nessnet]

nessnet, If your Prius's GPS told you to drive off a cliff you'd probably do it...

No Prius - sorry.

Sir, I was just pointing out the info available, as I understood it.
And, simply asking for help, if my info was incorrect

Not your snark and obvious bad attitude.
Maybe help instead of being an ............

 

[AJAT]

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Find out where the nearest tower is and point it in that direction. It should improve your reception.