Antenna Suggestions, Please

[chrissim]

Hello:

I'm going to put it all out there so that there is no confusion. I teach for a living. When I get home, the last thing I want to do is talk some more. However, I have become intrigued with amateur radio. I spent a few days studying and passed the tech exam. I'll take the general in October so that I can attempt real DX beyond 10 meters. I'm really mostly interested in brief contacts in Europe, etc. Talking state side doesn't really do much for me.

Considering that I have spent a fortune on other hobbies (astrophotography and cycling - both very expensive), and considering that I am uncertain how far I would like to explore amateur radio, I would like your opinions on a not very expensive antenna solution. I just don't want to pump excessive amounts of money into something that will likely be casual.

My primary interest would likely by 10 meters, 20, and 40. Of course I could be wrong, but I notice a lot of activity on 20 and 40, so I'm particularly keen on those two bands. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now, the main issue I have is that we have an HOA that's diligent. Also of concern is that although we have a large lot, there's just so many trees and random branches from those trees, that a true flat top dipole will be difficult to accommodate.

What I have done is purchase a G5RV to get me started. It will have to be an inverted V (vee). I know I may not achieve the best results, but it's the best I can do unless I pay someone to come out here and start doing some serious pruning. For the cost of that, I could buy a mid level rig and then some.

If I find that I enjoy the hobby, I will likely move to a vertical. I must stress, there's no way I am going to get a true horizontal configuration with a wire - just ain't gonna happen. I can also forget about any type of tower mounted anything. I should mention, my neighbor already complained about the Pixel loop I have 12 feet high well hidden in the back. These are the types I live amongst.

I've read more than I care to in regards to verticals. Some love them, some don't, but that holds true for just about any antenna. A vertical in the back of our house in a clearing among the trees is the best solution. I've ehammed a few verticals, and one that gets good reviews is Hustler 5BTV. It's rather inexpensive even if one includes the radial kit and radials. My concern is that I read one would not be able to achieve real DX with this antenna, such as the type I'm interested in.

So, the question is, is that a legitimate claim? Will I be tied to state side contacts with such an antenna, or do any of you feel the G5RV is as good or better than something such as the Hustler? By the way, the G5RV I decided upon is the W8AMZ 10-80, due to eham reviews.

I apologize for the redundancy of an antenna question, but this forum is my only source for information that I trust, as I have received great info in the past.

Thanks for the time. I appreciate it. Any suggestions, criticisms, etc are welcomed.

 

[milkman21218]

The G5RV's work very well. And should work well for you. Yes you can work the world with it. If you want your signal to go east & west tie the ends north & south. Or tie east & west to send north & south. Also contacts on bands change with the time of day. 20m is mostly day time and 40m is mostly night for overseas contacts. But contact location's do change every hour of the day.

 

[dksac2]

The G5rV antennas need an antenna tuner to operate on all bands and are not really the best antenna for a new ham. There is the open line that has to be clear of all metal, it has to be a good distance up in the air to work it's best, not something a person with restrictions wants and other problems I'll tell you about later.

I'd give a real good look at the Gap "Challenger" vertical. It has 2 meters, 10,15,20,40 and 130 MHz of 80 meters.
The thing is, it's a different antenna than all other verticals. It's a vertical Dipole, the others are not. It does not need 40 plus wires run from the bottom of the antenna in the dirt for the antenna to work against. The others also have traps which can lose signal and have many other problems. The Challenger has no traps at all or anything else to eat up your signal before it can be radiated like the others do.
I have a Gap Challenger and it is fantastic. The contacts I make cannot believe that it is a vertical because the signal is so darn good.
When it comes to DX, 15, 20 and 40 meters are your main DX frequencies with 80 getting a little better in the winter.
I have made many DX contacts in the short time I've had the antenna. I just run 100 watts and am able to get through the huge pile up's with no problem at all. The very first time I went for a DX station, it was in Switzerland and had a big pile up. It took me 4 calls to get through and he said I had a very good signal. I have run into few DX contacts that have had any trouble hearing me.
If I can hear them, I can work them. I have worked every DX contact I've tried except for two. Don't get a Hustler, you will not be happy.
The Challenger has a very low take off angle, which really gets the signal out a long way with fewer bounces, only has 3 radials from the bottom required of 25' each, you will have to pay for the hundreds of feet of wire for the other verticals vs. 75' of wire for the Gap. The 3 radials are for the 40 meter band only. I had to cut about 3 feet off of each one to get a 1 to 1 SWR reading at the frequency range I usually use
You also will not need an antenna tuner with the Gap, it stays under 2 to 1 SWR across all bands with much lower SWR near the middle frequencies (except 80 meters, which you do not get the entire band, but you do get most of the good part). As a General, you don't have very wide bands for the most part anyway.
You also have no idea just how nice it is when you find a DX station not to have to tune up the antenna on the antenna tuner, they are a real pain, but necessary with many antennas. With the Gap, you just listen and transmit when it's the right time.
They cost about $350.00, so they are a great deal. One would be easy to hide between tree's, they have a very small footprint.
Lastly, go the the EHam web site. They have a section that amateurs rate equipment, the Challenger has a great rating, people rave about them and I'm one of them, the antenna works way better than you would think a vertical would with just 100 watts. Be sure to use good coax such as LMR-400. It costs a little more, but is worth every cent, it has almost no loss at HF frequencies.
The 10 meter band is only open sometimes, not all that often (for 10 meters, buy a 10 meter beam that you can put up and take down if you are serious about 10 meters, they are small enough to do so easily), I have made many DX contacts on 15,20 and 40 meters, all over Europe and many other places. I got Cuba, Israel, France, Italy, and several others on 15 meters the other night . I've talked all over the USA including Hawaii. This is the antenna to get, especially for someone new. It's plug and play. Put it together, it sits right on the ground, takes two people to easily put up, run your coax to your radio, check the SWR and your on the air all over the world.

Check one out on the Gap web site, go to EHam.com and look also. This antenna works way better than any other vertical I've heard. Get one and don't look back.
I should add that I bought my radio used and got an Alpha Delta 4 band dipole with the radio. It's on 10,15,20 and 40 meters. I put it up also, and the Gap talks much further with a much higher signal than the $140.00 dipole. You will find the Dipole is better for the shorter distance contacts, but I talk to states no more than two or three away from Idaho, for closer in, I use the dipole. This is the way it is with any antenna that gets good DX, it's better at the stations further out than close by. You may want to make or buy a wire dipole for the closer in contacts. It's better to have more than one antenna. The good thing about a dipole like the Alpha Delta is that you can use almost all of the band without a tuner also. Just cut the antenna for the middle of the frequencies that you use the most.
When you have to use a tuner with an antenna such as the GR5V, you will find that the tuner eats up quite a bit of signal, and with just 100 watts, you want every watt radiated from the antenna. If you get a Gap Challenger, you'll save $250-$300.00 on buying a antenna tuner because you will not need one, with the GR5V, you'll spend another $500.00 in wire for the base and wire with another vertical and and a tuner for the dipole, keep that in mind. The GR5V is a good antenna, I'm not putting down on it, they do work good, but I'll put my Gap up against one in DX any day and the Gap is Omni directional, not just 2 directions like a dipole. Add in the other costs and it's a no brainer.
I have an antenna analyzer and using it, I found that I was radiating almost all of my 100 watts with the Challenger. The fact that almost all the power is radiated and the low take off angle adds up to one killer antenna.
You may get a few who will po-po the Gap, but they have never used one or they would think different. I know hams who have Gr5V's and know what they will do. They are good, but will cost you much more in the end for less antenna.
My antenna is in the open, but if you read the reports on EHam, others have said tree's or being close to other objects have caused them no problems at all, something good to know as that is not always the case. Paint it brown and green and the neighbors won't even see it around the tree's.
See if you can trade that GR5V before you put it up, you will be glad in the end.
Sorry for the long post, but being new, it's easy to get in over your head real quick and either spend way more money than you need to or buy the wrong thing. Been there and done that. I'm still fairly new, but read everything I can get my hands on and have found some great mentors, that helps a lot. One of the Extra's that has helped me quite a bit told me about the Gap antenna, he was right on the mark. There is nothing like a person(s) with experience.
I now have 5 HF antennas (two Gaps, 2 dipoles and a loop) and use the Gap at least 90% of the time. I'll switch between them all till I find the best signal and it's almost always the Gap. I have no interest in Gap, I just want to see you with the huge smiles on your face like I get with every DX contact. I make new one's almost every night unless the bands are bad. It would take 1500 watts and a Yagi on a 100' tower to make me much happier, and even then, I like the fact that I can make the same contacts as them with 100 watts and a vertical !!!!

73's John

 

[kc5uta]

stealth antenna

First off......My condolences on living in a HOA. As for antenna suggestions try looking up "stealth" antennas. People in the past have been very inventive, such as a small wire loop circling the the roof of the house, the same color as the shingles, and a coax ran up the gutter pipe. A flag pole in the yard can also do double duty as a ground mounted vertical or can be shunt fed for the lower bands as well, depending on it's height. . (example...my 65ft tower doubles as a 80 meter vertical, AND a 160 meter vertical.) IF you have a small diameter pole in the tree, paint it green/brown..and maybe even add some fake leaves or branches to it. You would be shocked at how that might let you sneak something in! Good luck. kc5uta

 

[chrissim]

Thank you all. As I have come to expect, always great suggestions and help from this forum.

 

[jeepinjeepin]

What do the HOA rules say? Is it a strict no outdoor antennas policy or just not visible from the street? No matter what the HOA rules state, they cannot keep you from installing a flag pole. Now if that flagpole has a wire inside of it and an array of wires radiating from it's base just below the ground surface so much the better. Depending on the size and style of your home it may be possible to hang a wire antenna under an eave or up near the attic roof peak.

 

[dksac2]

I do hope my suggestion has helped.
I'm not one of those guys who just because I have a certain brand or model of something, I have to brag and say it's the best. If the Gap antenna was so-so, that's what I'd tell you, but the darn thing surprises me more every day.
I run a Yaesu AT-450 transceiver, it's a good little radio, but it's not a DXer's dream, it gets the job done.
I hope you find something that works fantastic for you and you have DX contacts racked up by the dozens in a short period of time.
Just don't take shortcuts, buy good coax and fittings and try to make sure every watt gets transmitted from your antenna. It's something else how much power can be lost in a piece of equipment, a bad connection or just a wrong choice. I have invested in good test equipment. This has allowed me to get the best from what I have because of making sure everything is as good as it can be, I'm leaving nothing on the table.
Read a lot. I never knew just how much power gets used up in heat and resistance in an antenna tuner until I bought and read a book on them it's a lot, there is so much to read in books and on the net, take advantage of that. Now my tuner just sits unless I have to use it, nothing connected through it. This is just one example, there are many more.
Think through every thing you do. Put as few things in line as possible, every thing that goes in line takes some signal or gives a reflection in the coax.
Do it right, have fun and let us know how things turn out for you, this is a wonderful hobby.
Take it serious, but not to serious, when it stops being fun, your too far into it or not looking at all aspects of ham radio.

73's John

 

[LtDoc]

I can certainly understand being 'frugal', it isn't a bad idea at all until you get an idea of how well you enjoy a hobby.
A G5RV is a very nice 20 meter antenna and a 'so-so' multiband antenna. It was specifically designed as a 20 meter antenna and just happened to 'work' on other bands. The same can be said for a plain old dipole. Count on needing a tuner with a G5RV. It has another 'draw-back' that people don't recognize off hand. That is that it needs to be positioned so that the parallel feed line is straight and not close to anything (that includes metal, dirt, trees, etc.). That parallel feed line is part of an impedance matching system and if it's close to stuff then it's 'matching' ability is changed, you don't want that.
How about verticals? There are a number of very nice ones around. They also have 'qwerks' or requirements that make them not as 'simple' as the advertisements want you to think. When you add in being inconspicuous (HOA) you are making them more complicated to use.
I would suggest getting a copy of one of the ARRL's Hand Books and taking a look at the antenna section. You won't find everything in there, but it does give you a pretty good general idea of what's required for some level of performance.
And lastly, about HOAs. You might give some thought to what they amount to. That means that they do have the 'right' to say what you can and can not do because you agreed to them doing so when you signed that contract. You gave away your 'right' to whatever by contractual agreement. Don't wanna do that? Then don't sign the contract. That simple.
- 'Doc

 

[dksac2]

One more suggestion. If there is no way to do a vertical or a dipole that has to be in the clear, there is an antenna called a "CCD" (do a web search).
It is only made to work on 20 and 40 meters, so you may need to figure out something else for other bands. They also offer a 40 & 80 meter, but that's not what you want.
The thing about this antenna is that you can put it right behind the top lip of a wood fence, held by plastic stand off's used for electric fence wire, or run it under the eve of your house if there is no metal. Trimmed right, you won't need a tuner to use most of the bands. If you think you may want one, call the company owner and talk with him for suggestions, he's a great guy.

I know several people who have them that love them when they cannot put up an antenna that will be seen. Most say they are to keep dogs from jumping on the fence, and they look like something that would be used for that with all the boards and capacitors on them. They are different than a regular dipole as they have a board with a capacitor every so often along the wire. They radiate off of the entire antenna, which is different than a regular antenna. Put up in the air, they really work great also. Having listened to several at different places in the country at 100 watts, they work as advertised.
There is one guy I talk to all the time who uses one, he has it in an "L" configuration and it works great.
The maker of the antenna says it will even work sitting on the ground, just not near as well as in the air, but it's supposed to work great on a fence or hidden in another area with no metal.

I bought one for 40 and 80 meters to use as a NVIS antenna, placed at about 10 feet, but have not put it up yet. I have a decent amount of property, so it allows me some good leeway.
The CCD is very well made. 20 and 40 meters are very busy and you can make lots of contacts there, 20 meters during the day, 40 meters at night.
Rigging a flag pole would also work as mentioned, but you will need an antenna tuner and most likely some help to get it to work right, but some people use them as a last resort when no other antenna can be put up. You will still have to have the room to run all the radials around the antenna, many being at least 40 feet in length each, but you can get away using shorter, the rule of thumb is to make the radials as long as the lowest band you will use, which can be pretty long. you will need at least 16, but 30 to 40 works much better. The antenna has to work against the radials as a ground and if you don't have enough or the wrong length, the antenna will never work anywhere near it's best.

73's John

 

[chrissim]

I think part of the problem is that I spend an inordinate amount of time reading about this stuff. I say this because what I find is that for every single amateur operator who endorses something, there are just that many who oppose it. I have finally come to determine that many experiences, good or bad, isn't always tied to the product itself, but rather some extraneous factor not taken into account. I am a member of AARL, and there are plenty of great resources on their web page. I've already spent too much time glued in front of the monitor reading digitized editions of QST.

I have a copy of the ARRL antenna book. I admit, much of it is beyond me at this point, but it's a good reference.

Unfortunately, if I do use the G5RV, it will be surrounded by trees, as I have nothing but trees in the back yard. There is a clearing in the back that will likely work for a vertical if that time comes. I'll play with the G5 to get a feel for amateur radio. I already have 100 feet of LMR400, but will likley use a short 10 or 15 foot run of RG8X to break that 100 feet up so that I can attach it to a transi trap attached to a ground rod. I also already have an LDG auto tuner that I intend to connect to an old Kenwood 430S I have, though as mentioned by dksac2, that may present some problems.

The HOA is likely the garden variety type. Outdoor sheds same color as house, no parking on the side of the street, all fences must be same color (no chain link). I think I did mention that my neighbor did "enquire" about my Pixel loop out back. Not sure if she or the HOA will stand for something like the GAP. I'll have to investigate as Doc suggested. Our house is 2,400 sq. feet, so there's some room to work with, but I fear an antenna close to or supported by the structure will pick up noise. I've been a shortwave listener for quite a while. First lesson I learned was to get antennas as far away from houses as possible. I also fear RF exposure. I don't quite understand the limits, but I don't want to cause any electromagnetic radiation issues.

Thanks again. Always very impressed from what I learn here and the willingness of those who post to help.

 

[WB4CS]

Nothing to worry about when it comes to RF radiation. On the HF bands you'd have to be within inches of the antenna to even need to start worrying.

Think of your local AM radio stations, their broadcast tower is usually just a few 10s of feet away from the studio, and they produce several KW of power. You'll be fine.

I second the GAP antenna. HOA's are very anti-american, so if you find yourself really enjoying amateur radio I'd suggest finding a new home where there's no commie restrictions. It's your home and your land, you should be able to do what you want with it or on it.

Good luck!

 

[prcguy]

As LtDoc mentioned, a G5RV is a 20m antenna that happens to work ok on other bands but there is a modern computer designed version that is resonant on 40, 20, 17, 12, 10 and 6m and on 80m it works very well with a tuner. Do a search on "ZS6BKW" and you will find the simple plans to make this 94ft antenna.

I've used countless numbers of antennas and the ZS6BKW is now my favorite when space permits. I have never used a Gap Challenger but some friends do say it works ok but I did own a Gap Titan and can say its a big dummy load like most gimmick verticals. I did have great success with a 26ft tall Butternut HF6V but it was mounted in the center of a 100ft X 100ft bonded copper sheet metal roof. Take away its ground plane and they don't work so good.

I also get very good performance from a DX Engineering 43ft vertical with 30 something radials but again, take away its ground and performance drops drastically. My 43 ft vertical and a ZS6BKW at 30ft are on a remote radio across the country where I can switch between them and both make it across the country with the vertical having a slight edge on 40 through 20m but the dipole is better for signals within 500mi of the station and the vertical is down some on signals between 100mi and maybe 500mi of the remote station.

I've used many other verticals from Cushcraft, Hy-Gain and others with disappointing results compared to the 43ft vertical. Besides the ground counterpoise, length is a big factor with performance on the lower bands and that may be why the Gap Challenger and 43ft verticals rise above the other verticals that are mostly 18 to 20 something ft tall.

Each type of antenna has its own attributes and it my experience a horizontal dipole type antenna like a ZS6BKW, G5RV, resonant 1/2 wave, etc will give you the most bang for the buck and under the most conditions, DX and local. Consider a simple 1/2 wave dipole might cost you $10 in parts and a G5RV or ZS6BKW might cost $40 in parts. Compare that with hundreds of $$ on up for a commercially made Gap Challenger or 43ft vertical with needed ground system.
prcguy

 

[dksac2]

Some people who live in restrictive HOA areas put a high quality "Screw Driver" antenna on their vehicle or in the bed of their pick up truck and run a hidden coax out to it.
Not much they can do, the antenna is on your vehicle, not a part of the yard, house or property. Look at the rules, this may also work.

As the OP said, I'd move if possible when the time is right. I'll never buy where there are HOA's. There is protection for Hams who put up antennas in just about every community except where an HOA has been signed.

The only other option is to join Ares/Races and explain that in an emergency, you have been trained by the ARRL and have taken FEMA testing and had a back ground check done on you and are a part of the FEMA emergency radio response, you can also join your local CERT team. I'm too old and have a bad back to go out and search for people, so I handle communications for the cert team and stay with the trailers as security so all others can go out in the field.
In the case of an emergency, you will be able to get help and information for the community that other communities will not have access to and notify loved one's that people are OK through ARRL message delivery. Maybe they will let you do it on the QT if you have these certs and hide a vertical in the tree's, painted to match and maybe something to block the antenna. You can help them work out a plan for hidden antennas that will not degrade property values, no 70' towers etc. Have it spelled out and inspections and pre approval for all who want to up up an antenna will be required.
It has worked in some HOA areas, others, well they are just too strict. Much depends on how well you can convince the antenna police how important your communication can be to the community in an emergency and how lives can be saved. Maybe even get a neighborhood watch with people having hand held GMRS or FRS radios for emergency's to get things started. The more they know how important of a role emergency communications play in an emergency, the more likely they may be to make an exception or change the rules with their approval of all antennas. People tend to be afraid of what they don't know, so having the facts of safe use of radio can be a help also.
I'd only try this if you fail at hiding an antenna, just as long as they don't get too mad. When or if to broach this idea, only you know.
Try to find some like minded people in your HOA area you can go to a meeting with, numbers can help.

Until you can get something going, use Echolink to make world wide connections with your computer and high speed net connection. You can also find a good friend in a non HOA area who will let you put a computer, radio and outside antenna at their home and operate it remotely from your home computer.

73's John

 

[jeepinjeepin]

I too live in an HOA, but it was established only to allow us to be zoned for smaller lots. It's a joke. As long as there are satellite tv dishes on the fronts of houses, cars/boats/trailers parked in the street, and an undeveloped common area I'll keep my antenna/s up.

 

[dksac2]

One quick thought, the new SteppIR, CrankIR will be available very soon. It clamps to just about anything, is a vertical type antenna with 2 wires and a pole between them and a spreader at the top, it can be cranked up and down quickly, it's a temporary antenna. Not being perminate, you can put it up when you want to transmit, then take it down.
If it's not attached to anything all the time, and not fixed so it cannot be removed, I doubt they could enforce anything against you. The top model goes from 2 meters to 40 meters and weighs 8.5 pounds.

Tests have shown it works pretty decent, with little loss over a full length antenna. I'd look at this as a solution. Put in the trees, I doubt anyone would ever even see it for the time you are using it, then you take it down.
It's 40% shorter than a regular vertical and has a single black telescoping pole that could maybe be seen at a short distance during the day. Some spray paint to match it's background and I doubt it would be seen, especially at night. I think it requires some radials, but not many.
I'm pretty sure the antenna tuner you already have would work with it, if it's needed at all.
Worst case, you may have to take it to a park or mountain top and run battery power for your transceiver, but at least you would get on the air. It looks to be a vertical dipole, another plus because like the Gap, vertical dipoles need less wires at the base and are quieter than any of the other verticals.

With just a clamp to hold it and it's small profile, it should be easy to use without being seen if you are careful.
It all folds up into a small handheld package. SteppIR has a great reputation when it comes to antennas.
If you had to take it somewhere else to use, a couple deep cycle batteries, one high amperage solar panel with a voltage charge controller and a voltage booster like the one's sold by MFJ would give you 13.8 volts for a good amount of time. That way your radio would have full voltage, the solar panel will keep everything running longer and the voltage booster will keep your radio from having problems from the lower voltage of batteries and extend the operating time quite a bit. It would take very little time to set up if all power connections had the connectors from powerwerx.com on the ends, maybe 10 to 15 minutes tops to set up everything.

Steppir, Inc – Antennas for Amateur Radio and Industry

73's John

 

[prcguy]

I believe the SteppIR portable is still a 1/4 wave vertical and would need an extensive counterpoise to work very well.
Prcguy

One quick thought, the new SteppIR, CrankIR will be available very soon. It clamps to just about anything, is a vertical type antenna with 2 wires and a pole between them and a spreader at the top, it can be cranked up and down quickly, it's a temporary antenna. Not being perminate, you can put it up when you want to transmit, then take it down.
If it's not attached to anything all the time, and not fixed so it cannot be removed, I doubt they could enforce anything against you. The top model goes from 2 meters to 40 meters and weighs 8.5 pounds.

Tests have shown it works pretty decent, with little loss over a full length antenna. I'd look at this as a solution. Put in the trees, I doubt anyone would ever even see it for the time you are using it, then you take it down.
It's 40% shorter than a regular vertical and has a single black telescoping pole that could maybe be seen at a short distance during the day. Some spray paint to match it's background and I doubt it would be seen, especially at night. I think it requires some radials, but not many.
I'm pretty sure the antenna tuner you already have would work with it, if it's needed at all.
Worst case, you may have to take it to a park or mountain top and run battery power for your transceiver, but at least you would get on the air. It looks to be a vertical dipole, another plus because like the Gap, vertical dipoles need less wires at the base and are quieter than any of the other verticals.

With just a clamp to hold it and it's small profile, it should be easy to use without being seen if you are careful.
It all folds up into a small handheld package. SteppIR has a great reputation when it comes to antennas.
If you had to take it somewhere else to use, a couple deep cycle batteries, one high amperage solar panel with a voltage charge controller and a voltage booster like the one's sold by MFJ would give you 13.8 volts for a good amount of time. That way your radio would have full voltage, the solar panel will keep everything running longer and the voltage booster will keep your radio from having problems from the lower voltage of batteries and extend the operating time quite a bit. It would take very little time to set up if all power connections had the connectors from powerwerx.com on the ends, maybe 10 to 15 minutes tops to set up everything.

Steppir, Inc – Antennas for Amateur Radio and Industry

73's John

 

[k3cfc]

Hello:

I'm going to put it all out there so that there is no confusion. I teach for a living. When I get home, the last thing I want to do is talk some more. However, I have become intrigued with amateur radio. I spent a few days studying and passed the tech exam. I'll take the general in October so that I can attempt real DX beyond 10 meters. I'm really mostly interested in brief contacts in Europe, etc. Talking state side doesn't really do much for me.

Considering that I have spent a fortune on other hobbies (astrophotography and cycling - both very expensive), and considering that I am uncertain how far I would like to explore amateur radio, I would like your opinions on a not very expensive antenna solution. I just don't want to pump excessive amounts of money into something that will likely be casual.

My primary interest would likely by 10 meters, 20, and 40. Of course I could be wrong, but I notice a lot of activity on 20 and 40, so I'm particularly keen on those two bands. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Now, the main issue I have is that we have an HOA that's diligent. Also of concern is that although we have a large lot, there's just so many trees and random branches from those trees, that a true flat top dipole will be difficult to accommodate.

What I have done is purchase a G5RV to get me started. It will have to be an inverted V (vee). I know I may not achieve the best results, but it's the best I can do unless I pay someone to come out here and start doing some serious pruning. For the cost of that, I could buy a mid level rig and then some.

If I find that I enjoy the hobby, I will likely move to a vertical. I must stress, there's no way I am going to get a true horizontal configuration with a wire - just ain't gonna happen. I can also forget about any type of tower mounted anything. I should mention, my neighbor already complained about the Pixel loop I have 12 feet high well hidden in the back. These are the types I live amongst.

I've read more than I care to in regards to verticals. Some love them, some don't, but that holds true for just about any antenna. A vertical in the back of our house in a clearing among the trees is the best solution. I've ehammed a few verticals, and one that gets good reviews is Hustler 5BTV. It's rather inexpensive even if one includes the radial kit and radials. My concern is that I read one would not be able to achieve real DX with this antenna, such as the type I'm interested in.

So, the question is, is that a legitimate claim? Will I be tied to state side contacts with such an antenna, or do any of you feel the G5RV is as good or better than something such as the Hustler? By the way, the G5RV I decided upon is the W8AMZ 10-80, due to eham reviews.

I apologize for the redundancy of an antenna question, but this forum is my only source for information that I trust, as I have received great info in the past.

Thanks for the time. I appreciate it. Any suggestions, criticisms, etc are welcomed.

Here is two you can build. do they work? very well

Emergency Amateur Radio Club - Hawaii - Homebrew Projects

 

[nanZor]

I think part of the problem is that I spend an inordinate amount of time reading about this stuff. I say this because what I find is that for every single amateur operator who endorses something, there are just that many who oppose it. I have finally come to determine that many experiences, good or bad, isn't always tied to the product itself, but rather some extraneous factor not taken into account.

I think we've all been there. At some point, one has to stop reading, and gather up their own experience. It's part of the secret plan - the trick is to keep it fun while learning, otherwise nobody gets on the air and all we do is talk about it in forums (as good as they are). Nobody calls CQ, the band is dead, where are they??? On the keyboards theorizing.

Quick tip - your pixel loop does not need to be that high. About a radius above ground will be fine, unless you are trying to dx line-of-sight locals. They generally have a high angle lobe anyway on skywave, and low-angle reception is well-attenuated - although the outstanding s/n ratio makes for this a bit.

Also, before planting your vertical (whatever it ends up being), doing a site-survey with a battery-operated sw receiver can be beneficial, as in a suburban environment, a few feet either way can make a difference if you are plagued by noise fields - and as a small loop owner you know the difference between a good S/N ratio, and just pegging the s-meter. You can't work 'em if you can't hear 'em. You may even be able to incorporate the two with an antenna in a bad location for transmit, and the loop on rx in some circumstances.

 

[LtDoc]

Just a little about that 'CCD' antenna.
They can be made for any band. It's a matter of how much room you have and the number of capacitors you can round up. They are not an easy antenna to make, but they certainly are effective. The biggy as far as I'm concerned is that they are not all that height 'sensitive'. I've made one for 40 meters that worked laying on the ground. It worked 'better' when it was above ground, but it still 'worked'. A 'CCD' is a full wave antenna. How much room you have determines what band you can make it for, you know? They do NOT do miracles, but it does seem like it at first.
Would I like another one? I certainly would! But I'm too lazy/cheap to make or buy one. Oh well...
- 'Doc

They also work on bands higher than the design frequency, but you will need a tuner. They can also be fed with coax, but you do have to provide an impedance matching circuit at the feed point. Oh well, ain't nothing worthwhile that's easy...

 

[dksac2]

If you buy one, they come with a 1 to 1 balun. You can also buy the capacitors and boards from them if you want to make your own. Good soldering is the trick to them not coming apart, well soldered, they hold up great. They really are a neat antenna, you can put them at so many heights and in different positions, not always straight and they still work well. I've heard several on the air with 100 watts from different parts of the country, and they do get out pretty darn good.
I'm looking forward to getting my 40-80 meter up, I just have to get moving before the snow really gets here. It makes it far easier.

John