Antennas for a one-story rental unit

[K9DWB]

OK I'll do that. I may have to consider a vertical compromise antenna at my son to be QTH. I'll feel lucky to have that accepted is they do OK that. I'll show y'all what I'll be doing with. Have to do the image post from phone it seems. I'll be on extra small site.

 

[K9DWB]

Here's a few outside images. Sorry these are night shots outside only. COVID rules won't let me inside apartment until I sign lease 12/28. Image with 2 windows, these represent my side approx.

 

[prcguy]

Will you have access to the roof? If so you can do a non penetrating mount that sits on a rubber pad weighted with cinder blocks and that will give you a short but sturdy mast to mount an HF vertical or 2m/440 vertical, etc. Maybe two non pen mounts one for HF and one for 2m/440?

If you can get coax out front at ground level you can pull it up through a rain gutter downspout and to the roof. Another way to get coax to the roof from inside is via a heater or water heater vent pipe. You can get a short run of Teflon coax that will fish up through a water heater vent pipe to the roof and that coax is heat proof, then transition to regular coax on the roof and from the radio area to the water heater area, etc.

 

[K9DWB]

Interesting. I'll check it out when I sign for the lease. I'm feeling it's going to be a compromise of some kind, but I'll take doable compromise over an outright no-go. I have to take property that's made available.

BTW watch for this snow this week. Here in PA, NWS is predicting over a foot with it putting 1-2 inch an hour in some areas. Stock up on coffee, sit by the fire, and watch it fall.

 

[krokus]

Will you have attic access?

 

[Louie1961]

Attic antennas really don't work well (speaking from personal experience) and a vertical for HF is going to most likely require a lot of ground radials (unless you go with a vertical dipole like a GAP titan or Grayline performance flagpole antenna), which I suspect will not be allowed in an apartment complex. Your best bet may be a mag loop antenna, which can potentially be run indoors, or you can put it outdoors while operating, then pull it back in when you are done. Mag loops work pretty well even if low to the ground, and do give you some directionallity.

 

[Louie1961]

Check this out as an example. Wall Loop 20m.

 

[prcguy]

I would also avoid the attic unless its a completely wood structure with a high peaked roof so the antenna can be above the rest of the house, and the roofing material is not a issue for RF. I had a GAP Titan and it was a complete dog. Something like the Cushcraft R8 works better or many of the older trap verticals which you can pick up used and cheap locally and add ground radials. You don't need full length 40m radials, instead a lot of short ones will do just fine like as many as you can fit laying on the roof. This might be 20 to 25 radials 10 to 20ft long but they will be plenty effective and nobody will see them on a flat roof. This is with the vertical antenna on a non pen mount as I suggested above.

Another option is use a whip type tuner like the Icom AH-4 at the base of a 20ft or so vertical pipe or push up mast or two 10ft TV mast sections with an old TV antenna on top as a capacity hat. This would also attach to a non pen roof mount and have lots of thin almost invisible radials on the roof. A vertical like this will work fantastic 20 through 10m and surprisingly well on 40m and will still tune fine and make contacts on 80m.

Years ago at my office I had a 20ft push up mast on the roof attached to and insulated from a vent pipe with an SGC auto tuner at the base. The roof was bonded steel 125 X 225ft as a ground plane and that antenna rocked on 80 through 10m even though it was only 20ft tall.

I would not overlook roof vent pipes for small and medium size VHF/UHF antennas but a larger HF antenna would need special consideration to avoid damage and would probably need guying. A non pen roof mount is a better option for a larger HF antenna. I don't know the OP but judging by the location he is looking at and his age I would think a low key permanently mounted antenna with all coax neatly hidden on the way to the radio would be the best goal so he can just operate any time without having to set up a loop or something out side (in the snow) and spool out the coax, etc. It should be installed well with as much hidden as possible to avoid attention.

Attic antennas really don't work well (speaking from personal experience) and a vertical for HF is going to most likely require a lot of ground radials (unless you go with a vertical dipole like a GAP titan or Grayline performance flagpole antenna), which I suspect will not be allowed in an apartment complex. Your best bet may be a mag loop antenna, which can potentially be run indoors, or you can put it outdoors while operating, then pull it back in when you are done. Mag loops work pretty well even if low to the ground, and do give you some directionallity.

 

[K9DWB]

Will you have attic access?

Honestly I do not know now, but given the size and shape of the roof, I'd say there isn't an attic period. Refer to images above if you'd like. These buildings are a bunch of cookie cutter County rental office apartments with buildings like mine that are sectioned off into 4 apartments per building FWIW. I can't even state how many square feet mine is, but it's got the everything room and a bathroom; mine's an efficiency. A building maintenance area for my building access can be seen next to my door at the front; it's that brown metal door as I see it.

Controversial question: despite being possibly heavily compromised, would something like the vertical HF Comet CHA-250B be any use for very limited space like mine will be?

Here's the web address: Comet CHA-250B vertical HF antenna.

Going over new posts and a big thanks to all pointers and tips now and later.

 

[K9DWB]

@prcguy has me pegged pretty well. I'm disabled so I'm not wanting to deploy and take down antennas frequently of any type. I need a design that is permanent but near zero negative impact if it exists. I will have to do lots of site research to see what others are doing. I know satellite dishes are not the same as HF but you see the point I hope. If they're letting tenants install a sat dish, they will probably let me do something towards ham. Within reason of course.

 

[K9DWB]

BTW here's a Google Maps man on street frontal view with roof depicted. I see vents that may be useful.

View attachment 95444

 

[krokus]

I know satellite dishes are not the same as HF but you see the point I hope. If they're letting tenants install a sat dish, they will probably let me do something towards ham. Within reason of course.

Satellite dish, and terrestrial TV, antennas have to be allowed, by federal law. Hobbyist antennas do not have such protection, except via PRB-1, preventing local governments from totally prohibiting ham antennas.

If the gutters are metal, they could be connected to a tuner.

 

[MUTNAV]

@prcguy has me pegged pretty well. I'm disabled so I'm not wanting to deploy and take down antennas frequently of any type. I need a design that is permanent but near zero negative impact if it exists. I will have to do lots of site research to see what others are doing. I know satellite dishes are not the same as HF but you see the point I hope. If they're letting tenants install a sat dish, they will probably let me do something towards ham. Within reason of course.

I have to wonder about the possibility of putting up a small satellite antenna and wrapping a small transmitting loop around the perimeter of the dish.

Thanks
Joel

 

[WB9YBM]

If the gutters are metal, they could be connected to a tuner.

I've actually heard this done in the ham community by a building maintenance person. First he made sure all the gutter sections were electrically connected (not just mechanically) and--since he was using the gutter for transmit, too--he made sure the downspouts were electrically insulated from the gutters.

As far as tuners go, I've heard people even using bed springs for antennas with a good enough tuner.

 

[WB9YBM]

Do you have, or can you put up, a flag pole? I've heard the following from someone in a trailer park: he wasn't allowed antennas so he put up a fiberglass antenna mast, ran a wire inside, ran the coax under ground to underneath the trailer where it came up and into his radio operating position, fed the whole thing with a tuner.

 

[K9DWB]

Flagpole? ZEROFIVE flagpole antenna Would one of these be fine? WOW they're expensive though.
Can I install one or get it installed? I'll definitely find out. I do see Google man on street of neighborhood has a flagpole at a neighbor's. I'm patriotic too so I gotta have a flag!
Mods, thanks for the title edit. A virtual coffee on me.

 

[prcguy]

There are two things the flagpole needs to work well, a lot of wire radials and an auto tuner right at the base. Some flagpole verticals are supplied with a 4:1 balun at the base where you use the tuner in your radio and those are one step up from a dummy load. Several companies make suitable tuners that will feed the antenna base and if the antenna comes with a balun you throw that away and use the auto tuner instead.

If you plant one of these flag pole antennas in the front yard you can use a chisel shaped shovel to cut a bunch of shallow 1" deep cuts in the lawn and push small gauge wire radials down into the dirt so they will never catch on a lawn mower. The radials don't need to be terribly long and 20ft each would be a good start and even 10ft long is ok if you can get a lot of them in the ground. Without radials you give up a good S unit or more of signal.

Flagpole? ZEROFIVE flagpole antenna Would one of these be fine? WOW they're expensive though.
Can I install one or get it installed? I'll definitely find out. I do see Google man on street of neighborhood has a flagpole at a neighbor's. I'm patriotic too so I gotta have a flag!
Mods, thanks for the title edit. A virtual coffee on me.

 

[K9DWB]

OK copy that @prcguy and a big thanks. Your assistance, comments and teaching are very helpful.

A flagpole is best I think if were to need to hide it, but it's a bit pricey. It doesn't eliminate the option but does make it a taller hurdle.

Any hidden options that are suitable that brings the price to a bit more reasonable? BTW just planting a well designed vertical on a tripod rooftop isn't ruled out or at least not yet. There is hope still. I guess it depends on timing or something when I discuss the possibilities is all.

BTW hams Happy Holidays and 73 to all. Eastern USers buckle up for the snowstorm. My NWS State College PA stated snow accompanied by lightning and thunder is possible. As a SKYWARN volunteer, I pay more than passing attention to weather. OK mother nature is getting a bit serious on ushering in winter. Where's the fireplace log starter and the hot chocolate mix?

 

[tweiss3]

I think Steve Nichols' (G0KYA) book "Stealth Antennas" might be ab appropriate read. He did a presentation for our group. I saw a presentation he did, and it was pretty good. He has tried every antenna in his book and is very frank about performance, ease of assembly, etc.

The flag poles are decent but expensive choices. The Zero-Five requires radials, and the Greyline is designed to isolate from the ground and have no radials. Both require a remote tuner at the base, which is additional cost. The tuner can be hidden with a bush or potted plant.

You might also be able to get away with a EFHW laid on top of the roof (around the outside edge a few feet in), and someone probably wouldn't notice that.

 

[W5lz]

A couple of things to think about...
Getting permission to modify -anything- in an appartment complex will -not- be easy, don't count on it. A -very- compromised antenna is certainly do-able, just not always very practical. And the biggy, you will interfere with the other tenants (another 'count on it'). The rail-gutter routing of the feed line is a -good- idea! If there's something hanging in the breeze, some one -is- going to pull on it to see what happens! Loading the gutters is an option too. Trim the grass around the bottom of -all- down spouts (grass and who knows what else). Then, if they are metal, use an alligator-clip to connect to one of them. And probably the "best" suggestion is to use an antenna on your vehicle. Use a 'temporary' lead out to it. If you can think of some weird/odd/cheap-and-easy idea, give it a shot, who knows? Good luck.