Antennas setup help needed

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godwetrust

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I would like to put up an two outside antenna on the same tower for a sds200. This will be used for general scanning of all bands. The two antennas will be a Diamond D-130NJ and a Sirio SD 3000. Is this a good antenna pair or are there better setup? Where would you mount on the tower? What diplexer and cables shoud i used? Where should the diplexer be placed? Thanks for the help.
 

mmckenna

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I think we might need some clarification on what your goal is.

The Diamond and the Sirio are similar antennas and their designed coverage overlaps. Usually a diplexer is used to combine devices that utilize different bands into one feedline.

If you are looking to use the Diamond for it's 25MHz - 300MHz range and the Sirio for the 300 - 3GHz range, then you'll need to find a suitable diplexer that covers those ranges. One port will need to cover from at least 25KHz to around 300 and the other port needs to cover 300MHz up past 3GHz. Problem is, there's usually a dead spot around where they cross over, which might be an issue depending on what you want to listen to in the 300MHz range. With the exception of the 1.2GHz amateur bands, there's really not much you'd want to listen to about there. Other than amateur radio, no one is really running any analog or P25 stuff up there that your scanner would decode. Personally I'd stick with the Diamond and put the extra money into the coaxial cable.

If you really want two antennas, your better approach might be to run two completely separate feed lines from each antenna to a coaxial switch at your antenna (optional: use a remote coax switch at the tower)

If you want to use the diplexer, it would save you money on coaxial cable if you put it at the tower. You'd feed each antenna into it, then a signle feed line to your radio.

As for tower mounting, antenna height is key to extending your range. The higher the better. You could mount a cross arm at the top and put an antenna on either side.

The type of coaxial cable really depends on how long the cable needs to be and what your budget is.
 

godwetrust

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I was looking to use the diamond for lower frequency range, the sirio for the higher frequency range and combine the signal. Hoping for the best overall signal out of both antennas.

I was not aware of the dead spot the dipexer could create in this setup. I will take you recommendation and stick with the Diamond antenna only.

The cable lenght will be around 55 feet and was planning on using LMR-400 cable.

How for does the scanner antenna need to be away from a 65 watt ham transmitter antenna?

Thank you mmckenna the help.
 

mmckenna

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Yeah, looking at the hobby grade diplexers, they are all designed around amateur radio bands and will miss chunks of spectrum you'd want to listen to. You can always build what you want, but you're still going to have some dead areas around the cutoff frequencies.

Simply T-ing the antennas together won't work, as there are a lot of variables involved and it doesn't necessarily work out to 1+1 = 2.

If you are using a consumer scanner with P25, DMR, NXDN, etc. there really isn't going to be anything interesting above about 960MHz. There's amateur allocations at 1.2GHz and some others above there, but in many areas they are not very popular. The commercial stuff up there is going to be digital or wide band stuff that your scanner won't decode.

I'd set your focus on the 30-960MHz range.

As for coax….
Some may tell you to use RG-6 satellite TV cable. That can be a good option, but it's difficult to find the N connectors that the Diamond antenna has. You can get a version with UHF/SO-239 connectors on it, and you can use the reducers for the PL-259/UHF connectors to fit RG-6. You really don't want to use coaxial adapters as part of a permanent install if you don't have to. They become a weak spot in the long run.
RG-6 will work, but the LMR-400 will give you better performance as you go up in frequency. I'll add that you need to make sure you are getting quality LMR-400, preferably the Times-Microwave brand stuff. Be careful about anything that says "LMR-400 equivalent" or is some other brand name than T-M.
If you are going with LMR-400, either install yourself, or pay to have the correct N connector installed on the antenna end. Make sure you waterproof the outdoor connection properly. That means a layer of electrical tape overlapping passes from the antenna down past the connectors. Use a layer of self fusing sealing tape over that, extending past the last wrap of the tape, then put another layer of electrical tape over that. That's the industry standard and it works well. Water in your coax will turn things funky in quick order.
On the radio end, get the coax terminated with a -female- N connector. LMR-400 is pretty stiff and you really don't want to connect it directly to the antenna jack on your scanner. It'll put a lot of strain on it. Instead use a short jumper for RG-58, LMR-200, or other small flexible cable to make the final connection to your radio. So, you'll want a short jumper with a male N connector to whatever fits your scanner.

Don't forget proper grounding and lightning protection.


Separation between the transmitting antenna and your discone should be as much as possible. There's no hard and fast rule that I can provide as every situation is different. If it's too close, the high TX power can get into the scanner and cause issues. More separation is better.
 

cmdrwill

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Is there a good Diplexer to use a VHF 2meter and a 224mhz transceivers on a antenna that has 2 meter and 220 and 440 range?
 

prcguy

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Discones have about an 8:1 frequency range, but somewhere in the middle of their range the radiation pattern starts to shift upward and at their upper end the pattern is way off the horizon loosing a good 10dB gain there. Most scanner type Discones like the Diamond D-130NJ and similar sized units are cut to work from around 100 to 110MHz on the bottom end and somewhere in the 800MHz range at the upper end. That means they are a great choice for VHF/UHF through 512MHz and don't use them for 800MHz. Above 512Mhz you can then transition to another antenna to cover 700Mhz on up and the Sirio SD 3000 looks like a good choice for that.

The only problem is a diplexer and there are some great ones like the Microlab BK-24N but they are a little pricey. Microlab 80-520 698-2700 MHz 50dB Diplexer Filter (BK-24N) from Solid Signal
Another alternative might be an older Comet CF-413 that is rated 1.3 to 460MHz and 840 to 1400MHz. These actually work a little higher than 460 on the low port and a little lower than 840 on the high port and can be had on Ebay from time to time.

After nearly 50yrs of scanning and owning most every type antenna out there I finally built a system with a military Discone to cover the 118-512Mhz range and a tiny Discone to handle 700MHz to a few GHz then built a tower top filter/amplifier/combiner system. I think this is the best way to cover everything while giving the best system noise figure and making up for signal loss in the coax.

I have a Microlab BK-24N and will probably put up a second pair of the same Discones with the diplexer for transmitting and general use. I got the Microlab diplexer off Ebay for a good price but it took a couple of years of shopping to find it.

I would stick with your original idea and antennas with maybe a diplexer at the antennas in a weather proof box and one feedline to the radio area.
 
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cmdrwill

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Too bad the listing was ended. I'll keep a search for another one.

The CF-142 is on the way from Antenna Farm and I will test it on the SA and VSWR meters..
 
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cmdrwill

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New CF-142 diplexer just in from Antenna Farm, inside view.
 

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