Any good two-way radio without a license?

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ericdelo

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Hi all!

Thank you in advance for your help and my apologizes in advance if I did not post in the right section.

Here is my situation:

I own a small farm in the middle of the forest, no neighbor at less than 1 km. We often need to communicate between us (family members and/or employees) outside and inside the house. We have been using the common Motorola gmrs/frs found in Canadian Tire in the past, but, as we use it all the time, in all weather conditions, we were damaging them after 1 or 2 months maximum. We are looking for something stronger and more efficient.

We have been studying the subject and found the business 2 way radio a good choice, we thought about going to UHF as we have several buildings on the land and we need to reach people there too.

We are expecting to pay about 250$ for each portable, as this seems the price to be to get quality. This is quite a big investment to us, but we think it is worthy (as long as the portable is not made in China...) .

But, the point is, we are really not interested to pay for a license every year. I understand the use of the license in town, but I find it makes no sense when you are in the middle of nowhere, as anyway nobody will be able to receive our UHF and we won't hear anybody else. Or is it that I misunderstood something?
My idea was to get a business two-way UHF and set it on the GMRS frequencies, but it seems that it is not legal to do so?? Well, this is what a sell rep told me when I asked him.

So? What are my options? I need quality, and I don't want a license? Do you know any solution? I have heard that on model of Motorola might be able to do so (BPR40??).

Waiting for you advices!

Thank you in advance!

By the way, very nice forum :)
 

VE3JSO

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i could be mistaken all radios that is not ether frs gmrs or cb needs to be licensed by industry canada for the use of the frequency
 
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VE3JSO

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Then, can I set a business two-way radio on the GMRS frequency?
not to sure i check with the sales rep or the specs on the radio it self to see if it can cover that range another thing that i was looking up not to sure if it still availble or not check with telus mabey try telus for the mike network just like a cell phone that has push to talk that is like a two way radio and i don't think you need a license for that since telus has the license for it
 
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ericdelo

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i use this radio at work , it is in a protective pouch had a few bumps but has survived several months so far ...
can be programmed to operate on just about any uhf frequency your licensed to use
great capability for the price ,...


Puxing 777 UHF

Puxing PX-777 UHF Professional Handheld Radio Transceiver Technology Direct Canada
Thank's for your answer FoeHammer. I just made a research about this model you are talking, ok, it is made in China, but it is way cheaper than the other models I have look before (Motorolla, icom, Kenwood, ...) It is about 5 times cheaper...

What seems strange (but good) to me is this statement from the seller : "The PX-777 can be programmed via the keypad or with the 6-in-1 software and a programming cable (not included). The software is available free HERE

Because this radio is flexible enough to transmit on numerous frequencies, the buyer assumes all responsibility for proper operation and licensing."

So, it means I could set it myself to any frequency I want??? It was seeming to be such a complicated process with the other sellers I checked before.

________

Thank' animaljr43 for your answer. I have heard of this Mike network, but I am not so interested in monthly payment to the cellphone company.

I don't mind to invest on the radio itself, but just wish it is a one time investment, not to be hooked with anybody, government or company... But that seems to be so complicated!!

_________

I have another question, because I really don't know much about radios and I would not like to make a mistake.


What are your opinions regarding licenses? I do not wish to make any illegal stuff, but just to understand clearly:

1) Is there any use to have your specific frequency given by government through a license? (If privacy is not a matter.)

2) Would you see any problem on going in a GMRS frequency using a UHF 2-way radio as described above , other than being against law? I mean, can this cause problem to anybody?

3) Why is it prohibited to use a GMRS frequency on a usual UHF radio having 4W?

4) What are the chances of getting trouble if doing so, living in the middle of forest?

5) I mean, my intentions are only to communicate with family and employees on the land, there is no business in the 7 km around, on any side, what would be the problem of doing so? I just do not understand.... It seems stupid to me to go and get a license...? Is it or I don't understand correctly?

6) Is there any moral, ethic or other reason why I should not do so?

Thank you so much in advance for all your answers!!
 

VE3RADIO

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Thank's for your answer FoeHammer. I just made a research about this model you are talking, ok, it is made in China, but it is way cheaper than the other models I have look before (Motorolla, icom, Kenwood, ...) It is about 5 times cheaper...

What seems strange (but good) to me is this statement from the seller : "The PX-777 can be programmed via the keypad or with the 6-in-1 software and a programming cable (not included). The software is available free HERE

Because this radio is flexible enough to transmit on numerous frequencies, the buyer assumes all responsibility for proper operation and licensing."

So, it means I could set it myself to any frequency I want??? It was seeming to be such a complicated process with the other sellers I checked before.

________

Thank' animaljr43 for your answer. I have heard of this Mike network, but I am not so interested in monthly payment to the cellphone company.

I don't mind to invest on the radio itself, but just wish it is a one time investment, not to be hooked with anybody, government or company... But that seems to be so complicated!!

_________

I have another question, because I really don't know much about radios and I would not like to make a mistake.


What are your opinions regarding licenses? I do not wish to make any illegal stuff, but just to understand clearly:

1) Is there any use to have your specific frequency given by government through a license? (If privacy is not a matter.)

2) Would you see any problem on going in a GMRS frequency using a UHF 2-way radio as described above , other than being against law? I mean, can this cause problem to anybody?

3) Why is it prohibited to use a GMRS frequency on a usual UHF radio having 4W?

4) What are the chances of getting trouble if doing so, living in the middle of forest?

5) I mean, my intentions are only to communicate with family and employees on the land, there is no business in the 7 km around, on any side, what would be the problem of doing so? I just do not understand.... It seems stupid to me to go and get a license...? Is it or I don't understand correctly?

6) Is there any moral, ethic or other reason why I should not do so?

Thank you so much in advance for all your answers!!
The china made 777 puxing radio are 100% illegal and are not IC approved, importing one could land you in jail or a fine of $5000. If you read the Radio Communications Act you will see what I am talking about.

As for UHF radios on GMRS frequencies, IC has stated the only reason it is not allowed is because of the old existing licenses, I believe all of the licenses are dried up now and IC will change the law soon to allow use of higher power.

As for using them now.. lots of people do, is it illegal? right now.. yes... in the future.. probably not (as long as IC follows through with what they said on their website).

I would suggest calling the IC field office in your area and having a chat with the radio inspector.. they are very good at answering questions and please do post the results of your conversation on here.

When you call ask about the status of MURS channels in Canada.. that may be an option for you too.. (VHF would also go a lot further)
 

DaveH

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Ottawa, Ont.
Thank's for your answer FoeHammer. I just made a research about this model you are talking, ok, it is made in China, but it is way cheaper than the other models I have look before (Motorolla, icom, Kenwood, ...) It is about 5 times cheaper...

What seems strange (but good) to me is this statement from the seller : "The PX-777 can be programmed via the keypad or with the 6-in-1 software and a programming cable (not included). The software is available free HERE

Because this radio is flexible enough to transmit on numerous frequencies, the buyer assumes all responsibility for proper operation and licensing."

So, it means I could set it myself to any frequency I want??? It was seeming to be such a complicated process with the other sellers I checked before.

________

Thank' animaljr43 for your answer. I have heard of this Mike network, but I am not so interested in monthly payment to the cellphone company.

I don't mind to invest on the radio itself, but just wish it is a one time investment, not to be hooked with anybody, government or company... But that seems to be so complicated!!

_________

I have another question, because I really don't know much about radios and I would not like to make a mistake.


What are your opinions regarding licenses? I do not wish to make any illegal stuff, but just to understand clearly:

1) Is there any use to have your specific frequency given by government through a license? (If privacy is not a matter.)

2) Would you see any problem on going in a GMRS frequency using a UHF 2-way radio as described above , other than being against law? I mean, can this cause problem to anybody?

3) Why is it prohibited to use a GMRS frequency on a usual UHF radio having 4W?

4) What are the chances of getting trouble if doing so, living in the middle of forest?

5) I mean, my intentions are only to communicate with family and employees on the land, there is no business in the 7 km around, on any side, what would be the problem of doing so? I just do not understand.... It seems stupid to me to go and get a license...? Is it or I don't understand correctly?

6) Is there any moral, ethic or other reason why I should not do so?

Thank you so much in advance for all your answers!!
You're opening a real can of worms here. If a lot of people decided to pick a frequency based
on their own observation that by listening (with a small antenna) and finding no activity, they
could simply go ahead and start using it, there would be chaos. As for moral/ethical, only you
can answer that for yourself; operation of equipment that requires a licence, without such licence
is illegal. Could you get away with it...possibly, for some length of time. Is it the right thing
to do...in my opinion, no.

Truck drivers and others have been known to use marine VHF radios on land, illegally.
Not trying to give you ideas, just mentioning this.

For commercial use I am somewhat doubting that anything available to general public
is a great idea. You have NO immunity to interference, and anyone can wander onto
"your" frequency, cause interference etc. I sometime wonder how commerrcial operations
in cities manage to use FRS/GMRS...

Somewhere in here there's a solution, but it may not be as simple and low-cost as
you might hope, unless you treat it as a business expense.

Dave
 

ericdelo

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Messages
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Location
Qc, Canada
The china made 777 puxing radio are 100% illegal and are not IC approved, importing one could land you in jail or a fine of $5000. If you read the Radio Communications Act you will see what I am talking about.

As for UHF radios on GMRS frequencies, IC has stated the only reason it is not allowed is because of the old existing licenses, I believe all of the licenses are dried up now and IC will change the law soon to allow use of higher power.

As for using them now.. lots of people do, is it illegal? right now.. yes... in the future.. probably not (as long as IC follows through with what they said on their website).

I would suggest calling the IC field office in your area and having a chat with the radio inspector.. they are very good at answering questions and please do post the results of your conversation on here.

When you call ask about the status of MURS channels in Canada.. that may be an option for you too.. (VHF would also go a lot further)
Thank's for the info WZ1, I will try to reach the radio inspector and let you know what he says.


__________


Hi Dave, thank you for you info and opinion.

You are writing " For commercial use I am somewhat doubting that anything available to general public
is a great idea. You have NO immunity to interference, and anyone can wander onto
"your" frequency, cause interference etc. I sometime wonder how commerrcial operations
in cities manage to use FRS/GMRS..."

I understand that commercial operations in the city would not make a good choice to go on FRS/GMRS, but what about if you are in the middle of forest? I mean, I don't have any neighbor using FRS/GMRS , or at least not on a frequent base (because I would have had interference before, and I never had). Do you see any problem in that particular case to go on GMRS frequencies?
 

robertmac

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Rules

Rules are generally made to keep people from making fools of themselves. You must not assume that you will not be interferring with any other radio users. That is why IC requires businesses, yes farms in the middle of a forest, to obtain a license. They know what frequencies are available and will provide you with a frequency that will not cause interference from other users OR to other users. Even in the middle of a forest, your use of a frequency could be picked up by other users or repeaters and the interference spreads over 100s of kms.. Look before you leap and talk with IC to see what other users are in your area of the forest.
 

ericdelo

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Rules are generally made to keep people from making fools of themselves. You must not assume that you will not be interferring with any other radio users. That is why IC requires businesses, yes farms in the middle of a forest, to obtain a license. They know what frequencies are available and will provide you with a frequency that will not cause interference from other users OR to other users. Even in the middle of a forest, your use of a frequency could be picked up by other users or repeaters and the interference spreads over 100s of kms.. Look before you leap and talk with IC to see what other users are in your area of the forest.
Thanks for the info robertmac, I was not aware of that.
 

torontokris

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Get a weather resistant high end frs radio. Will be legal and the better ones will be as much watts as most motorola handheld radios (5 watts.. Even though they are only suppose to be what 2-3watts)

Or look into a motorola ht1000 radius etc programmed to uhf frs freqs and you won't have to worry about running an illegal freq. Since your in the middle of nowhere you shouldn't get interfearence from others
 

frankh

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where they used to build cars
if you are looking for short range secure two way license free radio that is rugged take a look at used mike cell phones that are capable of direct connect (off the system) as the mike system is being phased out the phones are selling next to nothing or free
 

DaveH

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if you are looking for short range secure two way license free radio that is rugged take a look at used mike cell phones that are capable of direct connect (off the system) as the mike system is being phased out the phones are selling next to nothing or free
The Direct-Connect if I recall is 900MHz DSS which would give a range roughly
what an unlicensed FRS/GMRS radio gives, albeit with a bit more security.

Higher frequencies are not good for wooded areas as the "foliage loss" goes up
with frequency.

I have a pair for Tri-square TSX-100s which are probably equivalent to the iDEN
D-C mode, and the range is about the same as a typical FRS/GMRS...1-2 km at
best in urban environment, somehat better in open terrain.

Dave
 
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DaveH

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I understand that commercial operations in the city would not make a good choice to go on FRS/GMRS, but what about if you are in the middle of forest? I mean, I don't have any neighbor using FRS/GMRS , or at least not on a frequent base (because I would have had interference before, and I never had). Do you see any problem in that particular case to go on GMRS frequencies?
You can try GMRS radios but don't expect more than a few km range. BTW programming a commercial
radio to GMRS frequencies in Canada is not legit, even if kept to the power and narrow bandwidth. People
do it, I recall someone using 50W mobile radios, but it's not legit.

If you're talking more than a few km you might need a base station (also technically not allowed with
Canadian GMRS, such that it differs from the American version). If it's mobile-mobile, a repeater
would work, but cost a least a couple of $k and not legal with current GMRS. This narrows you choices down.



Dave
 

East_Algoma

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You cannot do anything with GMRS ( Repeaters etc ) a solution would be , apply for a VHF frequency in your area , with Industry Canada.

After that , you will get a Station License , then go out and grab a used home brew Repeater..., add in Auto Patch ( a Phone Line ) and your in Bizz my friend....

Sounds simple....but your dealing with Government..so things take a while...my Station Lic for my Frequency took 4 weeks to be done.

Ohh ans also fee's - heres a brain tickler...IC told me this :

Some radios do NOT have to pay ( I think 36 / yr ) while if you have a diff radio , you dont have to pay...ODD Stuff here...but thast what IC told me....I faxed my application , with a KENWOOD 2 way radio ( hand Held ) no fee....I have no idea how what n where they get the rules n regs that say this radio must pay , but this one is free....odd as I said.

In the end....your better off...your legal ,
 

steely70s

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You could also study for your amateur radio license then you will be free to use many bands of communication at much higher power.
 

phyberoptics

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Strictly going down the moral road, you should not use amateur radio for commercial purposes. It's a cool hobby, but keep the commercial stuff where it belongs.

*Gets off soap box...
 
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