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apco exclusive systems

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moonies

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I was wondering how do you monitor an apco exclusive system in the 470 mhz area that is not trunked ?? My thought is only in conventional mode? The system is rockland ny public safety system. Any help would be appreciated.
 

seamusg

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moonies said:
I was wondering how do you monitor an apco exclusive system in the 470 mhz area that is not trunked ?? My thought is only in conventional mode? The system is rockland ny public safety system. Any help would be appreciated.
According to the database here it is a Project 25 standard trunked system that is not shown as online yet. When it goes online, you'll need to use some trunker software to get info in the system. If it comes online as a Project 25 standard system it will have a 9600 bps control channel, which can be decoded by the PRO96/2096 with PRO96COM. to get the tables.
 

b52hbuff

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seamusg said:
If it comes online as a Project 25 standard system it will have a 9600 bps control channel, which can be decoded by the PRO96/2096 with PRO96COM. to get the tables.
Tables are only required for Pro-96. Uniden radios decode tables from control channel.
 

kikito

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b52hbuff said:
Tables are only required for Pro-96. Uniden radios decode tables from control channel.
As long as the system uses the usual Explicit data stream, then that's correct.

If it's an Implicit type of system, both brands need the Tables setup. Many of the newer systems, especially ones by EF Johnson on the 400MHz band, are likely to be Implicit. We'll have to wait until it goes online and see....
 

ofm4u

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Encryption

Don't waste your money, they are going to turn on DES-OFB encryption so you can't listen.
 

b52hbuff

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kikito said:
As long as the system uses the usual Explicit data stream, then that's correct.

If it's an Implicit type of system, both brands need the Tables setup. Many of the newer systems, especially ones by EF Johnson on the 400MHz band, are likely to be Implicit. We'll have to wait until it goes online and see....
Thanks for the information. Is there any way to quickly determine if a system is 'implicit'? Or do you have to monitor and notice that 'things don't work'?
 

kikito

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b52hbuff said:
Thanks for the information. Is there any way to quickly determine if a system is 'implicit'? Or do you have to monitor and notice that 'things don't work'?
The best and sure way would be to run the Pro96Com software on the system. I can't remember the details off the top of my head but if I remember right, it doesn't show the channel numbers or the Tables numbers on the information area of the program but it gives you enough to be able to manually set up the Tables on the radio.

By the way, there is also another 'caveat', the Pro-96/2096 can only have up to 6 Tables setup, so again, if I remember correctly, if the system uses more than 6 voice frequencies, it might not track it correctly. The Uniden lets you enter up to the maximum possible of 16 Tables.
 

SCPD

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kikito said:
If it's an Implicit type of system, both brands need the Tables setup. Many of the newer systems, especially ones by EF Johnson on the 400MHz band, are likely to be Implicit. We'll have to wait until it goes online and see....
Joe / everyone;

There two things in play here.

First, all P25 systems send control channel messages to indicate which call is active on what channel. In these messages, a system may use one channel # to imply both the TX and RX frequencies. That is an implicit system. If a system must use separate channel #s for TX and RX - then it's an explicit system.

Second, some systems broadcast the bandplan in the form of "identifier update" messages (base frquency, offset, and step size). For implicit systems - this also includes the TX offset. Other systems - like MA/COM P25 systems don't use the identifier update messages. These systems are "implicit" in the P25 protocol specification sense that only one channel # is needed to specify TX and RX frequencies for a voice call. Technically - Motorola 700 and 800 mhz P25 trunking are also "implicit" because a single indentifier (band plan table entry) describes the entire 700 or 800 mhz band - includiing the TX offset. However, what's really different about these systems (MA/COM and perhaps EFJ) is the lack of bandplan information over the control channel (or lack of a step size). We just need a catchphrase or name for these types of systems so that the P25 use of the terms implicit and explicit don't get confused.

-rick
 

kikito

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rfmobile said:
We just need a catchphrase or name for these types of systems so that the P25 use of the terms implicit and explicit don't get confused.

-rick
Thanks for sharing that knowledge Rick. I agree, we better hurry up and find the "catch phrase" before Uniden give us an ambigous term that will forever come back to haunt us! ;) :lol:
 

moonies

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it states that its digital voice exclusuive, but how do you enter the system?? If you try to enter it as a uhf trunked system the uniden asks for the base/offset/spacing info! So, I a m thinking to enter frequencies in conventional mode? ANY help would be appreciated.
 

seamusg

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moonies said:
it states that its digital voice exclusuive, but how do you enter the system?? If you try to enter it as a uhf trunked system the uniden asks for the base/offset/spacing info! So, I a m thinking to enter frequencies in conventional mode? ANY help would be appreciated.
1. The voice does not define what type of system it is you have to look at what the system type is.
2. If you enter the frequencies for a trunked system in conventional mode you'll get the CC noise on one channel and the scanner will lock on it
3. Could you give a link to the system you're trting to program.
 

moonies

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Thanks for replying. Not an expert on sending a link but its the rocland county public safety system in new york. Its not yet active but a project 25 system is not an option on the uniden 296d system types when you go to program. Any ideas?
 

seamusg

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moonies said:
Thanks for replying. Not an expert on sending a link but its the rocland county public safety system in new york. Its not yet active but a project 25 system is not an option on the uniden 296d system types when you go to program. Any ideas?
On the 296 and 796 a 800 mhz Project 25 stansard are programes as a Motorola 2 Apco 25 system
 
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seamusg

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moonies said:
I thought that a system with frequencies in the range of 470mhtz would be considered a uhf trunked system?
It is but too many people use the voice type for the system type and make anything with P25 voice into aan APCO25 system, even if it analog and P25 voice.
 

kikito

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moonies said:
I thought that a system with frequencies in the range of 470mhtz would be considered a uhf trunked system?
Yes, frequencies in the 470MHz are technically on the UHF band. However, from the type of system point of view, P25 system are all the same standard regardless of frequency band used. That's why any and all P25 systems (9600bps control channel) are setup as such on the scanner.

The older Motorola systems (3600bps control channel), it would be slightly different in how they would trunk in different bands for example.
 
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