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APX 6500 Ign Sense

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hakwye8518

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Have an apx6500 remote mount with an o2 control head setup for soft power off, wiring is as follows red from brick and head go to positive battery terminal black from brick and head go to chassis ground which was cleaned prior to use, yellow wire was attached to a fuse tap switched 12volt source. On a drive longer than say 20 mins the radio will lockup when the car is shut off cant change channels increase volume or power down the radio via the power button. I've tried a different fuse tapped location and the same issue occurs, I've even tried using the switched 12volt source to trigger a relay so the ignition sense line was getting power straight off the battery with the same results. I am currently trying the ignition sense off the brick with the ignition sense for the head disconnected. radio has r27 firmware and programmed with cps 27. Any ideas of what could be causing this issue.
 

Tech21

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So when you shut off the car, the radio stays on and locks up?

Sounds like it's not really a wiring issue, but a car battery issue. How old is the battery? Have you had it tested? Have you checked battery voltage as soon as you shut off the car?

Do you have a multimeter? Do you have a bench top power supply you can use plug the radio and control head into to test and rule out if it's a wiring issue or a hardware issue?
 

Giddyuptd

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These radios require a constant voltage. If it drops slightly it could be a issue with battery.

Also ensure that your ignition sense is direct not tied to something that runs off ignition aside from a direct ignition source. Sometimes you can find a fuse pot empty that is ignition sense directly to ignition sense. Splicing into things usually leads to issues later if it isn't the actual power or ignition sense.
 

Echo4Thirty

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I have seen on GM vehicles where the IGN line we had selected actually pulses every few seconds/minutes (been a while, dont remember the interval), but it sent the Motorola radios into a fit that were programmed for IGN power up.
 

N4KVE

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I have seen on GM vehicles where the IGN line we had selected actually pulses every few seconds/minutes (been a while, dont remember the interval), but it sent the Motorola radios into a fit that were programmed for IGN power up.
My friend has a new Cadillac XT6, & he recently installed an APX8500. He used the IGN trigger wire to turn on the radio when he starts the car. Now this guy does excellent installs all the time. You should see the job he did on my Crown Vic. So whenever he pulls up somewhere to let someone out, when they open any door, & the engine is still running, the radio powers off, & on. Now I don’t know exactly where his IGN trigger wire is connected on the Caddy, but on my Crown Vic, it was connected to a proper radio harness provided by the outfitter.
 

ramal121

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My friend has a new Cadillac XT6, & he recently installed an APX8500. He used the IGN trigger wire to turn on the radio when he starts the car. Now this guy does excellent installs all the time. You should see the job he did on my Crown Vic. So whenever he pulls up somewhere to let someone out, when they open any door, & the engine is still running, the radio powers off, & on. Now I don’t know exactly where his IGN trigger wire is connected on the Caddy, but on my Crown Vic, it was connected to a proper radio harness provided by the outfitter.

Like the install I saw where the radio would go off and on with the windshield wipers. Don't let the shop at the corp yard do your installs!

So radios will quit at zero volts and power up when 12 volts are applied (whether that's good for them or not), but there is that gray area at 9 or 10 volts that will scramble a radios brains and require pulling power to reset. Every radio is different in this aspect. Some are bullet proof and some just can't handle it. I second the motion to check your power to the radio.
 
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hakwye8518

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this is on an 04 Camry. not sure of the age of the battery but voltages are as follows 13.3 engine running, 13.2 right after shutting off the engine and 12.8 1 hour after shutting the car off. So far having the ignition sense wired to the brick with the relay is working but only time will tell. I've also verified my tap point to make sure its 12volt with the key in the on position and 0 volts with the key in the off position. Thanks everyone for the responses.
 

wa8pyr

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this is on an 04 Camry. not sure of the age of the battery but voltages are as follows 13.3 engine running, 13.2 right after shutting off the engine and 12.8 1 hour after shutting the car off. So far having the ignition sense wired to the brick with the relay is working but only time will tell. I've also verified my tap point to make sure its 12volt with the key in the on position and 0 volts with the key in the off position. Thanks everyone for the responses.

Be careful. We had an issue at work with APX mobiles draining batteries; they've got one heck of a current draw even when powered down (our EMA vehicles would typically end up with dead batteries after a few days of sitting). We finally had to install battery switches to kill the main power to the radio after the vehicle was shut down. Eventually we got sophisticated and got the automatic versions which disconnected the main power X amount of time after the ignition is shut off.

For some reason we never had any trouble with XTL mobiles, only the APX.
 

N4KVE

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Be careful. We had an issue at work with APX mobiles draining batteries; they've got one heck of a current draw even when powered down (our EMA vehicles would typically end up with dead batteries after a few days of sitting). We finally had to install battery switches to kill the main power to the radio after the vehicle was shut down. Eventually we got sophisticated and got the automatic versions which disconnected the main power X amount of time after the ignition is shut off.

For some reason we never had any trouble with XTL mobiles, only the APX.
I use a common 5 pin relay to keep any power from the radio when the car is not running. Before using the relay, if I was away on vacation for a week, I’d have a dead battery when I got back. Since I’m using the relay, that has never happened.
 

hakwye8518

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Still having an issue with the ignition sense. changed the relay so the radio ignition sense wire is on the common terminal, battery positive is on the normally open contact, and chassis ground is on the normally closed. I'll report back if this helps or not.
 

mmckenna

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Have you tried something like a Lind Timer?

If the ignition sense circuit you are using is funky, the Lind timer will clean it up. Use the time to control the ignition sense circuit ONLY. Keep the radio/head positive power direct to the battery, and the grounds close to the radio.
 

hakwye8518

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I have not tried a lind timer. The ignition sense circuit "shouldn't" be funky since its 12volt right off the battery to the relay which is being activated by a switched 12volt source.
 

mmckenna

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which is being activated by a switched 12volt source.

That could be an issue. The relay may still bounce if the switch source drops out.

Another thing to do is look at the quality of the power on that switched source. Is there a lot of noise on it? Is it sharing power with some other device?
 

hakwye8518

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I don't have access to an oscilloscope so I'm not sure if the switched signal is noisy or not, it is shared with something else I'd have to look into what exactly it is shared with. I will look into the timer if I'm still having an issue after this latest change. The issue had gone away for about a week then added voice announcements and a couple conventional channels and then the issue came back.
 

wa8pyr

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Still having an issue with the ignition sense. changed the relay so the radio ignition sense wire is on the common terminal, battery positive is on the normally open contact, and chassis ground is on the normally closed. I'll report back if this helps or not.

I’d be cautious with that. It should be ok, but if the relay suddenly went bad you could end up with the ignition sense lead grounded while the radio is powered up. Ignition sense is looking for presence or absence of 12v, not ground.
 

BMDaug

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I’d be cautious with that. It should be ok, but if the relay suddenly went bad you could end up with the ignition sense lead grounded while the radio is powered up. Ignition sense is looking for presence or absence of 12v, not ground.
That’s definitely worst case complete catastrophic failure of a relay like I’ve never seen! I suppose it is technically possible to have the drain side of the coil short to a working relay contact, but I’d bet on the entire vehicle catching on fire or wires just melting together before that would happen. A single pole single throw relay is pretty robust!

On a Harris remote head install, you always use the ign sense on the control head and leave the ign sense on the brick unconnected. I think you have a supply problem. Either something isn’t well grounded, or ign sense power isn’t stable. If the source voltage used for sensing (fuse tap), whether direct or switching a relay isn’t stable, neither method will work as expected.

Does the radio function perfectly up and to the point that the key is turned off? It doesn’t fail at some point during the drive? If this is absolutely the case, check to make sure there isn’t a delay power down on the circuit your fuse tap is connected to. Many new vehicles have a ton of circuits that power on with the key, but when you turn the key off, they will stay on until you open the door or for a set period of time.

I would make sure that the circuit you have chosen to tap is indeed turning off cleanly with the key and doesn’t blip off and then quickly reapply power on a delay circuit. A digital multimeter may not catch such a quick blip but a circuit test light would let you see a blip. Alternately, you could try opening the door before you turn the key off. That should ensure that the circuits will stay off when the key is turned off. Lastly, be sure to use a circuit that doesn’t switch with accessory mode. Many new cars use a key switch where accessory mode is forward one click, ign is two clicks, and start is mom forward from there. This means that when the engine is turned off, it actually passes the acc position before the key can come out.

Just some stuff to think about.

-B
 
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