Have any of you played around with these radios? My department is considering purchasing one of these 2 radios for the fleet. We are required to used UHF,VHF, 800MHz. Is it possible to scan between all of these bands? Our UHF, and VHF channels are conventional, but the 800MHz is P25 trunked? Also, if any of you have picture of the APX8000XE vs an APX 7000XE please post them(I have heard that the size of the radio has changed). Lastly, how are the holsters for the double sided APX radios? Do you think they will hold up well for day to day fire/ems operations? Thanks in advance.
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Apx 8000xe vs harris xl-200
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jim202
Member
The big thing with these multi band radios is that there is just one receiver. So if it has stopped scanning because it has stopped on one of the programmed channels, you don't hear any other channel till the scan delay allows scanning to start again. The radio vendors don't exactly tell you this in their brochures.
In other words if you have an active incident on say VHF, your not going to hear much on the UHF or 800 frequencies. Not what I would consider for interoperability use unless the incident will have all the communications are on just one band.
IMHO, One should never rely on scan for operational use as it means potentionally missing something. (Regardless of band). It is still a useful radio because it means carrying one radio vs 3.
I can't speak specifically to how they perform scanning trunked and conventional, but that is always a tricky thing. The radio has to leave the control channel to check the conventional.
Regarding size, I don't know about the XE versions, but the 8000 seemed smaller than my 7000.
I can't speak specifically to how they perform scanning trunked and conventional, but that is always a tricky thing. The radio has to leave the control channel to check the conventional.
Regarding size, I don't know about the XE versions, but the 8000 seemed smaller than my 7000.
The main reason we are looking at this radio is because our EMS uses UHF, other departments use VHF, and we use 800MHz. However, when working an incident we do not scan channels. The command post has multiple radios for monitoring all the traffic without scanning. We were thinking purchasing these radios would be easier than carrying 12 radios on a truck. (3 per person: 1 for each band)
nicknpd
Member
When comparing the standard 8000 to the 7000, it's roughly half the height and the same width and depth. I assume the difference between XE models would be about the same. I can send side-by-side pictures of the 7k and 8k if that'll help you; just imagine a wider top on the XEs to accommodate the bigger knobs and screen.
The plastic holsters do fine for medium duty use (police/EMS, especially with RSMs), but for fire service I would definitely recommend the leather holster.
I find scanning is pretty efficient. I'm scanning between VHF P25 conventional and 700 MHz P25 trunking on a regular basis and I rarely miss much of the lead-in to the transmission. Since I'm assuming you're fire service from mentioning a truck, if you and EMS both have alert tones at the front end of the calls, you'll always pick up the channel before the broadcast goes live unless you're already stopped on another (non-priority) channel.
I don't have experience with the XL-200; my only Harris experience is the PRC-152, which is an overall beast. The XL-200 looks pretty nice, I'm just particular to Motorola.
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The plastic holsters do fine for medium duty use (police/EMS, especially with RSMs), but for fire service I would definitely recommend the leather holster.
I find scanning is pretty efficient. I'm scanning between VHF P25 conventional and 700 MHz P25 trunking on a regular basis and I rarely miss much of the lead-in to the transmission. Since I'm assuming you're fire service from mentioning a truck, if you and EMS both have alert tones at the front end of the calls, you'll always pick up the channel before the broadcast goes live unless you're already stopped on another (non-priority) channel.
I don't have experience with the XL-200; my only Harris experience is the PRC-152, which is an overall beast. The XL-200 looks pretty nice, I'm just particular to Motorola.
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MTS2000des
5B2_BEE00 Czar
If you don't need a ruggedized housing, a standard 8000 would a true comparison to the XL-200. FWIW, I liked the XL-200's we demo'ed when they were in beta last year. Superb performance and a great product. Nevermind it's half of what a comparably flashed/equipped APX8000 will set you back.
OTOH, if you need a ruggedized radio, the 8000XE is the only way to go for fire use.
I will tell you there is an issue with multi-system scan on the 8000XE's. We sent all of ours back to Motorola and they are replacing them. No specifics but there is an apparent issue with the VOCON boards and high BER on receive.
The ergonomics of the 8000 suits me just fine for a daily carry radio. They are quite rugged (but not rated for fire use). I've watched one go flying out of my radio manager's pocket while we were at an exercise on a golf cart going about 25mph. It hit the pavement after flying 30-40ft in the air.
Survived with nary a scratch. No damage.
OTOH, if you need a ruggedized radio, the 8000XE is the only way to go for fire use.
I will tell you there is an issue with multi-system scan on the 8000XE's. We sent all of ours back to Motorola and they are replacing them. No specifics but there is an apparent issue with the VOCON boards and high BER on receive.
The ergonomics of the 8000 suits me just fine for a daily carry radio. They are quite rugged (but not rated for fire use). I've watched one go flying out of my radio manager's pocket while we were at an exercise on a golf cart going about 25mph. It hit the pavement after flying 30-40ft in the air.
Survived with nary a scratch. No damage.
Hello,
I am currently demoing the XL-200. Im looking for input on this radio for longevity vs the apx8000. I am looking at replacing some 300+ xts5000’s. I like moto but im also liking the harris. Programming hasnt been to bad, although both are equally as miserable from scratch.
Also, does the apx8000 allow for scaning conventional and trunking in the same scan list like the harris can? Coming from xts5000’s this is a feature our department would need in a triband radio. Seems like its possible but not really seeing a hard yes when i searched around.
I am currently demoing the XL-200. Im looking for input on this radio for longevity vs the apx8000. I am looking at replacing some 300+ xts5000’s. I like moto but im also liking the harris. Programming hasnt been to bad, although both are equally as miserable from scratch.
Also, does the apx8000 allow for scaning conventional and trunking in the same scan list like the harris can? Coming from xts5000’s this is a feature our department would need in a triband radio. Seems like its possible but not really seeing a hard yes when i searched around.
Yes, but with caveats. You could always do "talkgroup scan" which allows trunked and conventional in the same list with NO priority. As of the most APX recent firmware there is now a "dynamic priority" scanlist feature that works both in talkgroup and multi system scan. It will only react to a priority talkgroup during the CC hold time on each system though. I assume of course you wouldn't be using scan in a life safety need as no matter what manufacturer's radio you WILL miss calls- that's the facts of only having one receiver in the radio.
Yes, scanning only when guys are on patrol not on an active call. Scanning while on an active call is bad practice.
So it sounds like it is possible, I will see if I can snag an 8000 and try this out.
Any input on the Harris longevity/durability vs the 8000?
So it sounds like it is possible, I will see if I can snag an 8000 and try this out.
Any input on the Harris longevity/durability vs the 8000?
Either one should last 10 years in normal daily service as long as nobody runs over them with a vehicle or subjects them to serious mistreatment. The mere fact that they meet mil-spec 810C/D/E/F/G/whatever-they're-up-to-now should be an indicator of assumed ruggedness.
Most Motorola and most GE/Ericsson/Macom/Tyco radios survive long enough to be sent to surplus still in working condition. I don't expect that to change with more modern radios.
Most Motorola and most GE/Ericsson/Macom/Tyco radios survive long enough to be sent to surplus still in working condition. I don't expect that to change with more modern radios.
Cannot speak to longevity. Both have pretty solid chassis. I believe the APX 800 uses Gorilla Glass which is very durable. (Virtually cannot scratch it) End of factory support will likely be a prime determination as to long your dept will retain any radio. But both of them are pretty early in production cycle.
As far as scanning, I will only speak to APX as that is the one I am familiar with. You can scan between bands one of two ways. "Mixed mode scan" will allow scanning between trunked and conventional modes. But only non priority scan.
Later firmware versions of APX allow for "intelligent scanning". In theory it allows for priority scan between systems (IE Combination of trunked and conventional, regardless of band) But as noted above, you are still dealing with a single receiver. Scanning a trunked system involves sampling control channel, scanning a conventional channel involves sampling the conventional channel (IE Moving off of the control channel)
I have only enabled intelligent scanning. I have not put it through the paces. If this is something you are interested in, I would suggest you test yourself. My cynical viewpoint questions whether we could rely upon feature for mission critical situations. Your mileage may vary.
As far as scanning, I will only speak to APX as that is the one I am familiar with. You can scan between bands one of two ways. "Mixed mode scan" will allow scanning between trunked and conventional modes. But only non priority scan.
Later firmware versions of APX allow for "intelligent scanning". In theory it allows for priority scan between systems (IE Combination of trunked and conventional, regardless of band) But as noted above, you are still dealing with a single receiver. Scanning a trunked system involves sampling control channel, scanning a conventional channel involves sampling the conventional channel (IE Moving off of the control channel)
I have only enabled intelligent scanning. I have not put it through the paces. If this is something you are interested in, I would suggest you test yourself. My cynical viewpoint questions whether we could rely upon feature for mission critical situations. Your mileage may vary.
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