APX6000, Local Hospital Needs Advice

[Domashnia]

So first off allow me to apologize if this is 1) in the wrong forum 2) already been answered 3) or if my explanation sounds rudimentary

I'm the clinical supervisor of a local hospital emergency department. We are super small and a for profit facility, which means we do not have a budget and grants are out of the question. So any large scale purchased are out of the question.

Here is my issue: In our emergency department, motorola radios do not connect. Sheriffs department, Local Police, and EMS all use the radios....and we have 2 APX6000's that were gifted to us that we should be using to send and receive transmissions to EMS.

We are supposedly connected to the VIPER system with an MC2000 connected through WIFI to a switch gate. Is there a way I can plug and play some sort of repeater/router into our wifi to utilize our existing system so that we may use the APX6000's ?

 

[KevinC]

I would highly suggest you work this out through your local VIPER contact. This isn't really something you want to figure out through a hobbyist forum.

I know that's not the answer you were looking for, but it's your best option in my opinion.

 

[Domashnia]

I tried that, they essentially said its not a VIPER issue, its a hardware issue. And with the recently management turnover, we dont exactly have a system administrator that is familiar with the system..so I was looking for hardware suggestions that I can bring to upper administration. Ive even reached out directly to motorola and have yet to get a response. Id hate to have a system under utilized if its a easy or quasi easy solution.

and lets be frank...most hobbiests know more about these types of issues than the professionals LOL. But i'll keep hounding VIPER and Motorola and see what happens

 

[KevinC]

I tried that, they essentially said its not a VIPER issue, its a hardware issue. And with the recently management turnover, we dont exactly have a system administrator that is familiar with the system..so I was looking for hardware suggestions that I can bring to upper administration. Ive even reached out directly to motorola and have yet to get a response. Id hate to have a system under utilized if its a easy or quasi easy solution.

and lets be frank...most hobbiests know more about these types of issues than the professionals LOL. But i'll keep hounding VIPER and Motorola and see what happens

Ok. If I member correctly the MC2000 is for conventional only, so I'm not sure how that ties into VIPER (unless I'm wrong). This is why you really need someone local that can take a look at what you have, the profile capabilities of the 2 6000's you have and what you are trying to accomplish.

It sounds like you want/need in-building coverage for the 6000's. If so you'd need to contact a local BDA/DAS contractor to figure something out. Keep in mind this won't be a cheap issue to resolve (if I understand what you want to do).

 

[mmckenna]

I tried that, they essentially said its not a VIPER issue, its a hardware issue. And with the recently management turnover, we dont exactly have a system administrator that is familiar with the system..so I was looking for hardware suggestions that I can bring to upper administration. Ive even reached out directly to motorola and have yet to get a response. Id hate to have a system under utilized if its a easy or quasi easy solution.

and lets be frank...most hobbiests know more about these types of issues than the professionals LOL. But i'll keep hounding VIPER and Motorola and see what happens

Well, some of us are professionals. And the advice from @KevinC is right on.

You, as an end user, hospital, etc. cannot add anything to their radio system without the approval of the licensee. That is FCC rules and is not optional, doesn't matter if you are for profit, non-profit, hospital, clergy, or anyone else. All additions to their radio system MUST go through the licensee.

There are ways to address this, but again, it would be an add on to their radio system. You may offer to fund it, but ultimately it is their decision.

You are not the only hospital having this issue. Locally our hospital has the same issue, most radios will not connect to the system from within the walls of the emergency room, behavior health, etc.

The two ways to address this:

1. Add an additional radio site near the hospital that will help with coverage. This is a 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' type solution.
2. Bi-Directional Amplifier system (aka BDA's). BDA's MUST be registered with the FCC and have approval from the system administrator, so your hospital cannot just decide to add one on your own. They require very specific engineering and design, and on going maintenance is absolutely necessary. They are also exceedingly problematic and challenging.

There are no legal options that you can buy off Amazon or anywhere else.

Your best option is to gather up all the agencies that visit your ER: Fire, EMS, PD, Sheriff, etc. and jointly go to the system administration for the radio system and ask for help.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

Well, some of us are professionals. And the advice from @KevinC is right on.

You, as an end user, hospital, etc. cannot add anything to their radio system without the approval of the licensee. That is FCC rules and is not optional, doesn't matter if you are for profit, non-profit, hospital, clergy, or anyone else. All additions to their radio system MUST go through the licensee.

There are ways to address this, but again, it would be an add on to their radio system. You may offer to fund it, but ultimately it is their decision.

You are not the only hospital having this issue. Locally our hospital has the same issue, most radios will not connect to the system from within the walls of the emergency room, behavior health, etc.

The two ways to address this:

1. Add an additional radio site near the hospital that will help with coverage. This is a 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' type solution.
2. Bi-Directional Amplifier system (aka BDA's). BDA's MUST be registered with the FCC and have approval from the system administrator, so your hospital cannot just decide to add one on your own. They require very specific engineering and design, and on going maintenance is absolutely necessary. They are also exceedingly problematic and challenging.

There are no legal options that you can buy off Amazon or anywhere else.

Your best option is to gather up all the agencies that visit your ER: Fire, EMS, PD, Sheriff, etc. and jointly go to the system administration for the radio system and ask for help.

Last I did a full site BoM with construction of a freestander (minus connectivity) it was $1.2 million. That's data from 5 years ago though so probably more now.

For record, MC2000 is a single line remote.

 

[Domashnia]

Well, some of us are professionals. And the advice from @KevinC is right on.

You, as an end user, hospital, etc. cannot add anything to their radio system without the approval of the licensee. That is FCC rules and is not optional, doesn't matter if you are for profit, non-profit, hospital, clergy, or anyone else. All additions to their radio system MUST go through the licensee.

There are ways to address this, but again, it would be an add on to their radio system. You may offer to fund it, but ultimately it is their decision.

You are not the only hospital having this issue. Locally our hospital has the same issue, most radios will not connect to the system from within the walls of the emergency room, behavior health, etc.

The two ways to address this:

1. Add an additional radio site near the hospital that will help with coverage. This is a 'hundreds of thousands of dollars' type solution.
2. Bi-Directional Amplifier system (aka BDA's). BDA's MUST be registered with the FCC and have approval from the system administrator, so your hospital cannot just decide to add one on your own. They require very specific engineering and design, and on going maintenance is absolutely necessary. They are also exceedingly problematic and challenging.

There are no legal options that you can buy off Amazon or anywhere else.

Your best option is to gather up all the agencies that visit your ER: Fire, EMS, PD, Sheriff, etc. and jointly go to the system administration for the radio system and ask for help.

This is a feasible route....you have no idea how much I appreciate this!!!!!!!!!!

 

[mmckenna]

This is a feasible route....you have no idea how much I appreciate this!!!!!!!!!!

Where do I send my bill?


No, but seriously, those really are your only options if you want portable radios to work. Coverage in hospitals is a challenge, always, a lot of stuff that gets in the way of radio signals. No one should really be surprised by that. It won't be any easy fix, so getting all your agencies together to present the issue to the group that runs the system is your best path forward. Might not go anywhere, but it's the right place to start.


Good luck!

 

[Rudy3145]

If your portables don't connect to the VIPER system inside the building, the best route would be to have an in building repeater (BDA) installed in the area where you need the coverage. But as stated above, you'll need to contact whoever is in charge of the VIPER system and coordinate with them, as certain things need to be done.

Does the MC2000 base radio work?

 

[a417]

I have felt your pain before.

C-level: "we don't need that, it doesn't make us any money. I'm not willing to spend xxx..."
Risk Management: "Uhm, the amount of liability that exposes us to is unreal. If it goes to litigation because something regarding (xxx) happens, expect to spend years in court and append many more zeros on the end of that spec in forms of a settlement. I would not ignore the proper solution."

c-level: <crickets>

....

c-level: "Fix it"

I can't say it will work for you, but sometime getting other depts involved like legal, risk management, compliance or safety can hit this problem from all sides. Hey, I'm sure the news will be favorable when someone leaks to them that the incoming ambulance couldn't activate such-and-such protocol in a dire scenario and they couldn't stabilize a patient with an emergency medical condition. Wait, where have I heard that before. Oh, right, EMTALA.

YMMV, good luck.

 

[ElroyJetson]

Many emergency departments are the most heavily constructed and shielded section of the hospital, and radio communciations into and out of it of ANY kind are problematic. If this is the case then it will probably require an in-building bidirectional amplfiier system (BDA) in order to bring signal and coverage into/out of the ED section of the building.

This will require the services of a professional communications provider that is fully qualified to do an RF site survey in order to determine if this is the issue at hand, and devise a BDA solution, or other solution that works for you.

Even the best radio will not provide satisfactory service if it can't hear a signal or its signal won't get out of the shielded building.

Another option is to use remote consoles connected to radios that are placed in the facility that do have a good RF pathway to the system in question.

 

[DeoVindice]

How about SmartConnect?

 

[mmckenna]

How about SmartConnect?

If the system has it already, great.

If the system does not have it already, cheaper to do BDA or even build a new small site. SmartConnect backend is some expensive stuff.

 

[RadioGuy7268]

If it's a fixed location inside the hospital that needs communication to/from incoming EMS, then portable radios probably aren't the best solution. I'd be asking to swap out the portable(s) for a mobile radio mounted inside the building with an outdoor antenna. I wouldn't bother with buying a BDA solution unless you truly need to walk around while using a portable radio indoors.

Then again, an MC2000 Tone Remote would be doing effectively the same thing my indoor mobile solution would do. I don't know if the OP meant that the MC2000 they already have actually worked, or it was "supposed to connect to the VIPER system" and didn't work, because I've never seen a Tone Remote run over WiFi.

 

[mmckenna]

OP mentioned that SO, PD, Fire and EMS were having the same issue inside the ER, so a control station or a wireline link isn't going to serve the other users at that location.

 

[NVAGVUP]

The best indicator is local public safety also has coverage problems in same physical area of hospital. (IE Likely on same radio system) A BDA system which serves all disciplines is best solution. Knowing public safety brings in patients who can cause disturbances, (EX mental illness, DUI testing, other criminal suspects under security, etc) a BDA system is a win/win for all users who use the same common areas in hospital.

 

[KE4ZNR]

So first off allow me to apologize if this is 1) in the wrong forum 2) already been answered 3) or if my explanation sounds rudimentary

I'm the clinical supervisor of a local hospital emergency department. We are super small and a for profit facility, which means we do not have a budget and grants are out of the question. So any large scale purchased are out of the question.

Here is my issue: In our emergency department, motorola radios do not connect. Sheriffs department, Local Police, and EMS all use the radios....and we have 2 APX6000's that were gifted to us that we should be using to send and receive transmissions to EMS.

We are supposedly connected to the VIPER system with an MC2000 connected through WIFI to a switch gate. Is there a way I can plug and play some sort of repeater/router into our wifi to utilize our existing system so that we may use the APX6000's ?

Since this is a VIPER related issue I would contact MCA as they are the primary VIPER resource when it comes to stuff like this:
Our Locations
Look in the list for the closest NC location and give them a ring.

 

[TylerMK]

If you don't mind me asking, where in NC is your facility located?

 

[BryanTheRed]

If you don't mind me asking, where in NC is your facility located?

I'm interested in this question as well... My employer is a healthcare system in NC, I'm sure I could help you figure this out as I am the agency poc.

 

[xmo]

I suggest contacting the fie marshal of the proper agency (AHJ). Most agencies have adopted recent fire codes that require in-building radio coverage for emergency responders.