Are Kenwood Digital Radios compatible with the Mototrbo Standard?

[eteves]

I know over analog, these would obviously be compatible, and I'm pretty sure that Kenwood is the only brand that uses NXDN, but Motorola is not the only brand that uses Trbo.
In simpler terms, do the Kenwood Digitals have a Mototrbo mode or is it only NXDN?

 

[MTS2000des]

Kenwood does make DMR compatible subscribers, but when you say "MOTOTRBO" keep in mind, MotoTRBO has some proprietary features that are NOT cross vendor compatible, such as but not limited to Capacity Plus, Linked Capacity Plus, and Capacity Max trunking. Other features on the conventional side such as RAS (restricted access to system) are proprietary to Motorola as well.

Really depends on the infrastructure one intends to deploy or operate on.

 

[buddrousa]

If do it would be the NX5000 series with addons.

 

[mmckenna]

I know over analog, these would obviously be compatible, and I'm pretty sure that Kenwood is the only brand that uses NXDN, but Motorola is not the only brand that uses Trbo.
In simpler terms, do the Kenwood Digitals have a Mototrbo mode or is it only NXDN?

There are several companies that support NXDN and many that produce NXDN radios:

Who are our members? | Our Members | NXDN Forum Website

Welcome to the website of the NXDN Forum Website

www.nxdn-forum.com

Icom, Ritron, Kenwood, Alinco, Hytera….

As stated, Mototrbo has some proprietary functions that prevent 100% compatibility with any other brand. Motorola is well known for locking customers into Motorola only features.

If you look strictly at the ETSI DMR standard, Kenwood supports it.

There are several radios capable of doing it:
NX-5000 line
NX-3000 line
NX-1000 line
NX-P1000 "ProTalk" line

And then there's the older TK-Dx40 line of mobiles and portables.

In addition, Kenwood sells DMR repeaters and trunked systems.

 

[EWC_BDN]

some examples of difference are:
No Capacity+ or connect plus

The IP site linking stuff from each vendor does will be different

Transmit interrupt won't work. If you have the kenwoods set to accept it, they just won't hear motorola radios at all. At least in my testing. I had them on the same Kenwood repeater and one manufacturer would receive the other. I forget which way, but turning Tranmit interupt off on the kenwood fixed the issue.

The default programming on the kenwood uses all call as standard and you have to change it to use a Call ID like Mototrbo or EVX stuff.

Kenwood radios won't work on some CAP Max system if they are set up as Cap max advantage (if that's still a thing) The system must be made as an open system to accept non moto subscriber radios. Motorola modified the standard to not be standard probably to keep competitor radios off, but still have Motorola radios work on other systems like Tait/Kenwood DMR tier III.


If you just want simplex or duplex. I've got that to work ok.

Digital two way radio gets messy fast when you want multiple vendors to work together. Each vendor adds non standard features and they aren't compatible with each other, but are usually useful.

 

[mmckenna]

Digital two way radio gets messy fast when you want multiple vendors to work together. Each vendor adds non standard features and they aren't compatible with each other, but are usually useful.

As they say, "That's how they get you."

 

[TampaTyron]

Cap Max advantage mode is still a thing. In fact, it is heavily pushed. To get OPEN mode, you must get senior executive approval (seems like it is to keep cheaper radios off the system, which cuts into subscriber sales). TT

 

[EWC_BDN]

Cap Max advantage mode is still a thing. In fact, it is heavily pushed. To get OPEN mode, you must get senior executive approval (seems like it is to keep cheaper radios off the system, which cuts into subscriber sales). TT

I've had M sales people (not dealers) explain that Cap Max was like a gift motorola is giving us that it would rather not have. The Sales people are worried about APX and P25 sales turning into XPR and DMR T3 sales.

 

[TampaTyron]

I can confirm that there are several P25 type customers who found it cheaper to move to a CapMax system than pay maintenance/upgrade on their Astro system. And I forsee with the coming economic downturn, that Moto, KW, and Tait all putting in big DMR systems. I installed a large DMR Tier 3 system in North Africa that had several vendors radios on it. All of them were a little weird to program, but they did PTT together. TT

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I can confirm that there are several P25 type customers who found it cheaper to move to a CapMax system than pay maintenance/upgrade on their Astro system. And I forsee with the coming economic downturn, that Moto, KW, and Tait all putting in big DMR systems. I installed a large DMR Tier 3 system in North Africa that had several vendors radios on it. All of them were a little weird to program, but they did PTT together. TT

There is some irony to that seeing as several manufacturers now offer P25 infrastructure that is cost competitive with CapMax. I think that's one of the downfalls to not using 3rd party consultants is you may go with whatever your vendor offers which may not be the most cost effective solutions for one reason or another. Going from Astro 25 to CapMax is a full blown system and fleet forklift. Going from Astro 25 to another vendor's P25 is only a infrastructure forklift which you can take a step further and only upgrade critical infrastructure and reuse existing infrastructure (for example, you can convert a Quantar from V.24 control to DFSI control the repeater via several vendors controllers in trunking operation a lot cheaper than you can buy another repeater).

Then you also occasionally run into situations like @mmckenna ran into where your existing system is in a specific band and you only have one or two options to upgrade to that aren't P25.

All that being said, I've seen some fairly consistent reliability issues with CapMax. Unless you can't use Cap+ or LCP in 800/900 MHz, I'd recommend finding a different vendor for PS use.

 

[TampaTyron]

I would be interested in your (and anyone else's CapMax or other trbo reliability issues). I fix those for a living. Like I referenced above, if the person putting the system in (any manufacturer's system) does not get it "right," the system will be below par for the users. It has been a while since I worked for KW/Hyterra dealers, so I cannot speak to the level of support and "best practices" provided tot he system installers. But, I can confirm that the big M does not share the info needed to get a system working perfectly. There are many details outside of the manuals that can make or break a system. To reference the original post, DMR Tier 3 systems are adding additional compatibility functions all of the time from the ETSI working group. So, a system could be MOTOTRBO Capacity Max DMR T3 (run in OPEN Mode) and then other vendor's radios will work. There are not many of those systems in the world yet. TT

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I would be interested in your (and anyone else's CapMax or other trbo reliability issues). I fix those for a living. Like I referenced above, if the person putting the system in (any manufacturer's system) does not get it "right," the system will be below par for the users. It has been a while since I worked for KW/Hyterra dealers, so I cannot speak to the level of support and "best practices" provided tot he system installers. But, I can confirm that the big M does not share the info needed to get a system working perfectly. There are many details outside of the manuals that can make or break a system. To reference the original post, DMR Tier 3 systems are adding additional compatibility functions all of the time from the ETSI working group. So, a system could be MOTOTRBO Capacity Max DMR T3 (run in OPEN Mode) and then other vendor's radios will work. There are not many of those systems in the world yet. TT

The only issues we ever had with TRBO was Capacity Max. Both systems staged by Motorola and delivered racked and pre-configured. One was constantly locking up and showing no available resources (but the control channel would continue to function and register with the system) and was a single site system. The other one the customer had so many issues with programming radios for the system due to their IT department not wanting allow a VPN for the radio shop or actually learn anything about the system that they asked use to downgrade to Cap+.

As far as one of my regular SMR's go, he can't justify fork lifting his Connect Plus system because 95% of the SUs are first gen. So if he's gonna build a new system alongside...we can buy surplus XTLs coming off the local systems for $50 each all day long since we still have all of the soft keys from the old Privacy Plus system.