Ark Citizens Suing Over Radio Encryption

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grem467

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Most of the time when the media gets in an uproar about encryption, the solution is to issue / rent rx only agency keyloaded radios with a select tg list.

This typically shuts up the media, but does absolutely nothing for the scanner community.
 

ten13

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"You should read up on FOIA and be surprised what kind of crazy stuff they actually have to release if requested. And that's the point, it doesn't have to be public, but available for inspection on request."

Then you just gave the answer to the lawsuit about removing the encryption: If you want to know what's said on the radio, file an FOIA request and wait for an answer. Don't expect them to even CONSIDER removing the encryption.
 

KF5OBS

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Then you just gave the answer to the lawsuit about removing the encryption: If you want to know what's said on the radio, file an FOIA request and wait for an answer.
Maybe you should actually read things before you discuss them... That is EXACTLY what I did and the lawsuit handles the denied FOIA request.
 

SCPD

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There is no "right" to be able to listen to encrypted public safety communications PERIOD!. Yeah it sucks when it happens, but they can do it and care less what the public thinks. The only thing we can do is talk to the elected officials and let them know the benefits of having non-sensitive comms in the clear. I don't recall at least with my old noodle encryption being turned off because scanner listeners did not like it.
 

KF5OBS

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There is no "right" to be able to listen to encrypted public safety communications PERIOD!.
Not in real-time but if there are recordings, yes, there is such a right. Like I said before, you have no idea how deep the FOIA rights go in regards of records. You can even FOIA phone recordings. Not many departments would deny such requests. Some supply them out of 'courtesy' without prejudice, some think it's a FOIA requirement and Little Rock thinks it's exempted from disclosure.

Of course, demanding that they encrypt has no legal base. But sometimes you can make a certain behaviour so uncomfortable or expensive for someone so that they drop that behavior. There's case strategy behind this. Obviously case strategy that won't be discussed on here.

You can think about this suit what you want, important is that this will set precedence.
 

bailly2

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there is no way in hell the courts will order the police to decrypt, even the aclu wouldn't write an amicus brief in support of their lawsuit. if you don't like them encrypting then encrypt all your communications out of spite

there is still alot of interesting stuff to listen to, can always listen to the input frequencies and know there is activity nearby

the police going 100 percent encrypted doesn't suprised me half as much as taco bell going to a encrypted, spread spectrum system, like they are in a life and death struggle or something
 

KF5OBS

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Oh crap, I'm a subscriber so I didn't notice. #fail

I think it should revert to 'clear' tomorrow. So I'll leave the link up. At least we'll get access to the 'historical record'. Haha.
 

weather4ar

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There is no "right" to be able to listen to encrypted public safety communications PERIOD!. Yeah it sucks when it happens, but they can do it and care less what the public thinks. The only thing we can do is talk to the elected officials and let them know the benefits of having non-sensitive comms in the clear. I don't recall at least with my old noodle encryption being turned off because scanner listeners did not like it.
Maybe we should also politely remind the elected leaders and the Chiefs that they use publicly funded radio systems on federally licensed radio frequencies which also belong to the public. Also, politely remind the Chiefs that the trust and cooperation they so crave from the public is enhanced by basic openness and transparency, which in turn helps with officer safety. The best time to do this is when they run for re-election, or when they propose the next public safety tax to upgrade. Like the others, I'm for encrypting sensitive channels for police safety, but there is also a definite case for the law abiding and tax paying citizen's right to hear basic dispatch in the clear. We all help pay for their systems, and to that end, there should be an absolute right to be fully and immediately informed in an emergency, as it happens. As far as criminals using scanners and apps to further aid their crimes and evade police, the criminals should be fully penalized to the maximum, with extra time and fines added to the original charge. Make the criminals pay, not the average citizen.
 
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SCPD

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I wonder if these department's by encrypting will see a drastic decline in crime ? As stated above by N2MWE and Milf, I can comprehend certain transmission's being ENC. All law in the county I reside in is ENC, and it seems to have no bearing what so ever on crime, the same BS is still going on, and LE response is slower than ever. My neighbors house was broken into,made the call, 1/2 hour later there was the LE. Where the heck were they, donut shop ? Know the FD is ENC, I hope my house doesn't catch on fire.
 

KF5OBS

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poltergeisty

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what about fairly routine dispatches about silent holdup alarms, suspicious vehicles, etc?
A lot of PDs use MDT...



I'll bet he just pissed away $165.00 in filing fees and whatever his time is worth.

I also like his emergency order demanding the encryption be immediately turned off. As a former system manager, this case could be over before the encryption could be completely shut off (depending on the size of the fleet, of course). You don't just magically turn it off with a switch or a single command. It often requires reprogramming the infrastructure, consoles and subscribers.
I don't understand. My PD can encrypt on a need to basis's. If they want to be encrypted they will hit the switch.
 
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poltergeisty

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My personal rant on this is that why can the government use encryption and we can't? Is AES allowed on ham bands right now? DMR and dPMR come to mind, but dPMR is only alloed in the EU and DMR you need a license, don't you? On the software side you had the Lavabit situation. The feds demand the encryption keys to the encrypted E-mail. Lavabit said F it and shut down. Now you have Truecrypt that shut down possibility a Lavabit BS thing. The only form of radio encryption I'm allowed which pretty much suxx is Motorola DTR's and voice inversion on family radio. But I don't think your allowed to use voice inversion on a FRS radio anyway, but manufactures make it. There are cheap China radios that use voice inversion, but you need a license to use those frequencies, Legalizing dPMR would be great, but the encryption is weak.

So the feds can and want to hear you, see your E-mail and know everything you do, but not the other way around. The founding fathers are rolling in their graves! The police even buy stingrays to hear your cell phone calls.


"The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants. It is it’s natural manure." Thomas Jefferson, letter to William Stephens Smith, November 13, 1787. The second revolution is coming.
 

szron

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My personal rant on this is that why can the government use encryption and we can't?
But you can. Get a license on a commercial band and encrypt all you want. Hold your horses with the revolution.

Can the government encrypt or not is not an issue. Most of users here believe they should be able. The only thing that I (and many here) don't agree with is going completely dark while citing 'officer safety reasons'. It's behaviour that says 'nobody will be sticking their nose in our business'. It's very antagonistic towards the public and the media but many chiefs will rather do that than have a open and mutually beneficial relationship. That's exactly the reason the first lawsuit is going nowhere. There is no law saying 'your local government shall be courteous and transparent'. A judge can't make them be like that. Only you can, with your ballot. That's why I believe this is an issue for the city council meeting and the next election rather than for courts.
 

nfc2014

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Localities in Central Va are in the very early stages of planning of a new regional radio system.Was told by top law official in one of the counties that all LE comms will be 100% encrypted.Good luck with that lawsuit against Little Rock PD.Trying to rally people in Va forum to speak to their local elected if they do not approve of decision to encrypt in our area.
 

GB1952

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Maybe we should also politely remind the elected leaders and the Chiefs that they use publicly funded radio systems on federally licensed radio frequencies which also belong to the public. Also, politely remind the Chiefs that the trust and cooperation they so crave from the public is enhanced by basic openness and transparency, which in turn helps with officer safety. The best time to do this is when they run for re-election, or when they propose the next public safety tax to upgrade. Like the others, I'm for encrypting sensitive channels for police safety, but there is also a definite case for the law abiding and tax paying citizen's right to hear basic dispatch in the clear. We all help pay for their systems, and to that end, there should be an absolute right to be fully and immediately informed in an emergency, as it happens. As far as criminals using scanners and apps to further aid their crimes and evade police, the criminals should be fully penalized to the maximum, with extra time and fines added to the original charge. Make the criminals pay, not the average citizen.
I am retired from the Fayetteville Police Dept,NC and agree with you,their is nothing wrong with knowing what is going on around you that may affect you
 

KF5YDR

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The only form of radio encryption I'm allowed which pretty much suxx is Motorola DTR's and voice inversion on family radio. But I don't think your allowed to use voice inversion on a FRS radio anyway, but manufactures make it.
The only situations you could need encryption as a private citizen without that need justifying a license are in opposition to Johnny Law's wishes anyway. Remember that illegal and impossible are not at all synonyms.
 
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