Armada Client VP8000 - Trunked UNENCRYPTED P25 System without key?

[L3KDE]

Im trying to scan an unencrypted p25 trunking system with my viking vp8000.

the process I figured out to do this was:

1. Add a P25 system
2. Add non control channels in "Channel ID" list
3. Add control channels in "Control Channels" list'
4. Add talkgroups
5. Create a zone using that system with channels using those talkgroups

Armada client is complaining "P25 systems must have a valid system ID set before they can function. Assign a system key."

From what I understand, system keys are for encrypted P25, which this is not. How can I program a p25 trunked system that doesnt use encryption?

I tried putting a dummy key in Global -> Lists -> Keys table, but that must not be it because it still says "No keys" when I try and select one.

What am I doing wrong here?

 

[kd4efm]

Correct, system keys required period!
But the easy way is to conventionally add to the zone, and not go like you have pictured.
I scan several systems with my vp8000, but in conventional. I do have 1 authorized system in my radio
for BDA testing purposes ONLY, but anything else, RX only on all the simulcast channels, and disable the scan on
the CC channels.

 

[L3KDE]

Interesting. That's what Ive done for standard P25 systems and analog, but how can you scan it if it's a trunked system? Just add a channel for each frequency with each talkgroup? That'd be a lot of channels.

 

[kd4efm]

Talkgroup scan what you want to hear?
I just let mine rip like its and RTL-SDR and just monitor all the traffic, which ever channel it hits on.

By the way, no different than what you just said.

 

[kd4efm]

Keep in mind, these radios, you have a system key, they will AUTO-AFFILIANT! some people say they have done things where it wont, but
I am not one of them.

*** NOTE: meaning for a trunk system, not conventional.

 

[L3KDE]

Talkgroup scan what you want to hear?
I just let mine rip like its and RTL-SDR and just monitor all the traffic, which ever channel it hits on.

By the way, no different than what you just said.

I guess that makes sense. Just set one channel for each frequency. That said, I dont see a NAC anywhere to program in, so Im unsure what to do there. Additionally, I dont see an option to set the talkgroup to "ANY," it forces me to select one. How can I ensure it will still receive other talkgroups? I can see in my other P25 non-trunked systems Ive just set it to TG 1, so it will receive anything at least.

Another question, some of their talkgroups are encrypted. Will it freak out and make noise or just ignore it?

Philadelphia Trunking System, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Philadelphia Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[kd4efm]

You have a very expensive tool there, BE VERY CAREFULL on how you use it!

 

[kd4efm]

I guess that makes sense. Just set one channel for each frequency. That said, I dont see a NAC anywhere to program in, so Im unsure what to do there. Additionally, I dont see an option to set the talkgroup to "ANY," it forces me to select one. How can I ensure it will still receive other talkgroups?

Philadelphia Trunking System, Philadelphia, Pennsylvania

Philadelphia Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

example

 

[L3KDE]

example
View attachment 162698

Aha, digital squelch. Thanks again for your help here.
Definitely being careful. TX disabled on all of them, haha. Frequent codeplug backups. We're a dealer, Im just inexperienced with some of armada and havent touched trunking, so a bad mix lol

 

[GTR8000]

From what I understand, system keys are for encrypted P25, which this is not. How can I program a p25 trunked system that doesnt use encryption?

System keys are for programming a trunked system in the software. Encryption keys are for encryption. Two vastly different things.

All trunked systems require a system key before you can add them to Armada. Doesn't matter if the system is 100% in the clear or 100% secure.

It appears that you either don't have a system key for the 3B2 system, or you never loaded it if you do have one. That is why the software is not allowing you to add the SysID/WACN. If you're a legitimate/authorized dealer, you should already know this and should have a contact at the city regarding the 3B2 system. Proper course of action here is to go through official channels with the city to get what you need.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

As echoed above, you need a system key unless you are conventionally scanning voice traffic (don't know if that will work for a TDMA system). Judging by the pictured Channel ID List...I would agree that trunking is new to the programmer.

 

[MTS2000des]

Yup, no valid AKEY for TSys, no programming and no "radio wide scan" of TSYS. Only JVC Kenwood makes AKEYs and only for authorized system owners. Womp womp womp.

 

[L3KDE]

System keys are for programming a trunked system in the software. Encryption keys are for encryption. Two vastly different things.

All trunked systems require a system key before you can add them to Armada. Doesn't matter if the system is 100% in the clear or 100% secure.

It appears that you either don't have a system key for the 3B2 system, or you never loaded it if you do have one. That is why the software is not allowing you to add the SysID/WACN. If you're a legitimate/authorized dealer, you should already know this and should have a contact at the city regarding the 3B2 system. Proper course of action here is to go through official channels with the city to get what you need.

I do work for a business that is a vendor, but I have not yet worked on a trunking system and this is not a client of ours. I was in PA for a wedding and wanted to tune into the Philly trunked 800Mhz system on my personal time (boss lets us add whatever we want to our personal radios, especially when they're clients so we can interract with the systems when installing / maintaining).

Adding them as individual channels and scanning them worked, although I never got it to display talkgroups properly. For what I was doing (listening out of fascination and avoiding traffic) that worked great.

It's funny, here in NH there's someone on the radio every few hours. Down in Mass where I do dispatch sometimes, a call every few minutes. In Philly, their trunked system was basically constant chatter

 

[redbeard]

Good thing you don't have a system key, you'd already be affiliating and potentially causing issues because you don't know what you're doing. Next time bring a scanner or SDR.

 

[KevinC]

Good thing you don't have a system key, you'd already be affiliating and potentially causing issues because you don't know what you're doing. Next time bring a scanner or SDR.

But his boss let's them add whatever they want.

 

[Echo4Thirty]

If you ever do get a system key and authorization to program on the network, please speak with the system manager about all of the correct parameters. For example, that Channel ID table is a hot mess and is VERY incorrect for their system.

I used to tell people during programming training "It takes 100 checkboxes to make this work properly on the system, but only one wrong to screw it all up"

 

[wd8chl]

example
View attachment 162699

So for the sake of information, I tried this and it does work on a standard P25 Phase I trunked system, but does NOT work on a Phase II system. All you can do on a P2 system is get signal strength readings (using the RSSI option button).
On a standard system, it will not follow TG's, so following a conversation is luck of the draw.

 

[GTR8000]

So for the sake of information, I tried this and it does work on a standard P25 Phase I trunked system, but does NOT work on a Phase II system. All you can do on a P2 system is get signal strength readings (using the RSSI option button).
On a standard system, it will not follow TG's, so following a conversation is luck of the draw.

Right, because the majority of subscribers (and scanners, for that matter) will not decode TDMA traffic channels in conventional mode. They need the control channel signaling to make sense of the slots assignments.

There are some exceptions I'm sure, and I know that the SDRTrunk software will allow you to monitor TDMA traffic channels individually without the use of a control channel. It's less than ideal for normal monitoring, and is mostly intended for those who have a specific niche need or curious desire to monitor the frequencies in that manner.

 

[motorcoachdoug]

That is why a lot of people are using the Harris Radios for what you want to do. There is enough information on how to do that and where to get the software as well.

 

[L3KDE]

Good thing you don't have a system key, you'd already be affiliating and potentially causing issues because you don't know what you're doing. Next time bring a scanner or SDR.

I luckily do know what I'm doing when it comes to features like disabling transmit, ensuring emergency mode, signal acks, and the likes are disabled, if that helps. But yes, I've only been in the field for a few months so there are areas I have not been taught yet. Just been mostly mastering simulcast. Not to mention I obviously I wouldnt have a system key for a system I'm not trained with, so that seems like a rather odd hypothetical you're providing there... but hey, if you want to act grumpy and smart in this particular forum it's a thread country. Gotta earn that admin badge (I'm poking a bit but I'm not that mad, just seemed funny).

All we have transit enabled on are system's we're making or some of the depts I do dispatch with.

@motorcoachdoug We do have some Harris systems kicking around, but the vikings are one of our better sellers (with Taits being our preferred choice for their affordability and durability), but for trips and the likes, maybe I'll give those a try! I love their options to tie colors to the LCD depending on the channel.