br0adband
Member
While I can appreciate the officer's response I knew from the gitgo before I even read it he'd taint it with the "it could be used in the commission of a crime..." point which is of course ridiculous and not even a valid point of contention in my opinion.
Having said that my personal opinion on scanners - as someone that has been monitoring with such devices since the early 1970s as a wee child - is that the law enforcement agencies work for the public and as such the public has a right (since we're footing the bill) to know what our law enforcement agencies are up to at any given point in time. Now, the finer detail there with respect to my opinion and position would be that as long as the information is not "mission critical" or of an extremely sensitive nature in real-time that could prove harmful to the law enforcement agency personnel at that moment then I don't have any issues with it being broadcast in a manner which allows me to monitor it.
Here in Las Vegas these days the LV Metropolitan Police Department now uses a P25 Phase II based communications system with about 89 currently known and identified talkgroups aka TGIDs that we as listeners have been able to figure out what they're used for (dispatch channels, TAC channels, Administration info, the jail/correction center dispatch, etc) and there's quite a few now that are in use to one degree or another but unidentified so far. Of the known groups there are roughly about 36 that have been clearly shown (or clearly audible I should say) broadcasting "in the clear" meaning they're not encrypted at least not yet. The primary ones, meaning the dispatch channels for the various districts/precincts in the area, are broadcasting in the clear and the more sensitive groups regarding information that really does need to be secure for a variety of reasons are encrypted.
So as a member of the Las Vegas general public I can indeed monitor the law enforcement serving me to enough of a degree where I can figure out what's going on when I hear a siren (or multiples as is so often the case considering I live smack in the middle of downtown Las Vegas) or the LVMPD helicopter buzzing my area by "tuning in" and monitoring the dispatch channels (the downtown area has its own command channel). And some of the car to car stuff is still in the clear as well not that it really offers much that I've been able to monitor in the recent past. I don't have any issues with the law enforcement agencies doing their jobs and keeping some if not most of the traffic encrypted, but if they ever decide for whatever reason to just encrypt it all that's when I'd actually feel like complaining, quite loudly actually.
Aside the situation several years ago here in this area where the LVMPD was using the OpenSky communications system - which is not something you can monitor, period, because of the design and patents and nothing related to encryption overall, due to the technical design of it - and that blew up in their faces as a relatively catastrophic failure of epic proportions (and a literal sinkhole of $40 million plus of taxpayer funding) - I think that so far the current setup is working out very well but that's just my take on the situation.
One of the oldest running jokes around is a situation where there's an accident or some event that's happened and there'll be LEOs all around and if you go near it you get the prototypical "Move along, move along, nothing for you to see here, move along... nothing for you to see, move along..." type of response and I for one stand my ground. The position of the LEO would then be something like "It's for your own safety, move along..." and my response is pretty succinct: "It's not your job to protect me or keep me safe" and that's a fact whether they like it or not.
Anyway, I believe we as citizens (at least here in the United States, can't speak for any other country in the world) have a right to be able to monitor at least the daily activities of dispatch channels for any and all law enforcement agencies that are paid for and supported by us, the citizens that pay the taxes. And yes I realize that law enforcement officers of any and all kinds are citizens as well and they pay taxes too and they have their own opinions on the matter but, as many many agencies and businesses and governments are becoming well aware of in today's world and the one coming down the pike, transparency is now the regular order of business and in situations where something gets hidden there's going to be some of us that will stand up and fight to get that something right back into the limelight.
That's my $.02 and change on it.
Having said that my personal opinion on scanners - as someone that has been monitoring with such devices since the early 1970s as a wee child - is that the law enforcement agencies work for the public and as such the public has a right (since we're footing the bill) to know what our law enforcement agencies are up to at any given point in time. Now, the finer detail there with respect to my opinion and position would be that as long as the information is not "mission critical" or of an extremely sensitive nature in real-time that could prove harmful to the law enforcement agency personnel at that moment then I don't have any issues with it being broadcast in a manner which allows me to monitor it.
Here in Las Vegas these days the LV Metropolitan Police Department now uses a P25 Phase II based communications system with about 89 currently known and identified talkgroups aka TGIDs that we as listeners have been able to figure out what they're used for (dispatch channels, TAC channels, Administration info, the jail/correction center dispatch, etc) and there's quite a few now that are in use to one degree or another but unidentified so far. Of the known groups there are roughly about 36 that have been clearly shown (or clearly audible I should say) broadcasting "in the clear" meaning they're not encrypted at least not yet. The primary ones, meaning the dispatch channels for the various districts/precincts in the area, are broadcasting in the clear and the more sensitive groups regarding information that really does need to be secure for a variety of reasons are encrypted.
So as a member of the Las Vegas general public I can indeed monitor the law enforcement serving me to enough of a degree where I can figure out what's going on when I hear a siren (or multiples as is so often the case considering I live smack in the middle of downtown Las Vegas) or the LVMPD helicopter buzzing my area by "tuning in" and monitoring the dispatch channels (the downtown area has its own command channel). And some of the car to car stuff is still in the clear as well not that it really offers much that I've been able to monitor in the recent past. I don't have any issues with the law enforcement agencies doing their jobs and keeping some if not most of the traffic encrypted, but if they ever decide for whatever reason to just encrypt it all that's when I'd actually feel like complaining, quite loudly actually.
Aside the situation several years ago here in this area where the LVMPD was using the OpenSky communications system - which is not something you can monitor, period, because of the design and patents and nothing related to encryption overall, due to the technical design of it - and that blew up in their faces as a relatively catastrophic failure of epic proportions (and a literal sinkhole of $40 million plus of taxpayer funding) - I think that so far the current setup is working out very well but that's just my take on the situation.
One of the oldest running jokes around is a situation where there's an accident or some event that's happened and there'll be LEOs all around and if you go near it you get the prototypical "Move along, move along, nothing for you to see here, move along... nothing for you to see, move along..." type of response and I for one stand my ground. The position of the LEO would then be something like "It's for your own safety, move along..." and my response is pretty succinct: "It's not your job to protect me or keep me safe" and that's a fact whether they like it or not.
Anyway, I believe we as citizens (at least here in the United States, can't speak for any other country in the world) have a right to be able to monitor at least the daily activities of dispatch channels for any and all law enforcement agencies that are paid for and supported by us, the citizens that pay the taxes. And yes I realize that law enforcement officers of any and all kinds are citizens as well and they pay taxes too and they have their own opinions on the matter but, as many many agencies and businesses and governments are becoming well aware of in today's world and the one coming down the pike, transparency is now the regular order of business and in situations where something gets hidden there's going to be some of us that will stand up and fight to get that something right back into the limelight.
That's my $.02 and change on it.
