Astro / Astro Spectra (A4?) reprogram

[Blackhawknorth]

Greetings,
I have a few of these Astro radios I am trying to simply program as LATA-1 through to LATA-4 just for talking between themselves at a remote site. By remote... I mean where the Cell Phones don't work... which here in the Yukon is a pretty good chunk of the Territory, I have been working this a few ways, but after much banging of my head has now lead me to here. I can receive when I turn on the radio, but nothing seems to work to actually have a conversation so I can program.

So far:
Computer pieces:
Running a ROG Strix laptop... Windows 11
- Running a Windows XP Virtual machine with serial pass through
StarTech 4 port serial to USB (has been quite handy talking to a mitful of Telco equipment such as a DMS 100)
Serial cable is a standard Cisco blue (DB9 to RJ45) with the RJ45 end cut off to provide wires to connect to a DB15 breakout

Basic radio:
Astro Spectra Model: D04JHF9PW4AN / Serial 494CDA1689 / Canada Type: KKHA 1091941441

When I turn on the radio, I am getting something from it on the Moto Tools app:
- - -
10:48:48 Port COM3 is open
10:48:58 RX(1) 00 | ?
10:49:00 RX(1) FC | ?
10:49:00 RX(2) D4 90 | ??
10:49:00 RX(3) A6 1E 00 | ???
10:49:01 RX(1) FC | ?
10:49:01 RX(2) F4 24 | ?$
10:49:01 RX(3) 63 06 00 | c??
- - -
... and it goes on to the point of scrolling. So I am seeming to receive from it... which to me would mean I am able to communicate with it. I can see the lights on my StarTech light up confirming RCV or BUS+ as outlined here: Making Your Own Spectra Programming Cable. My Cisco cable is confirmed here: https://www.cisco.com/c/en/us/td/docs/security/asa/hw/maintenance/5585guide/5585Xhw/pinouts.pdf (Appendix 5-5). I have the following as my breakout connect for this:
Radio DB15 Serial DB9
14 - Bus+ to 3 - RxD
10 - Bus- to 2 - TxD
9 - Busy to 8 - RTS
8 - Digital Ground to 5 - GND


However... when I try to use the Astro 25 tuner or the Advanced Key Administrator (APX CPS suite Release 36.00.01)... or through the Windows XP VM (Virtual Machine) the Radio Service Software (RSS version 9.03.00), all I see is tx on the serial and no rx from the radio. I have tried swapping the wires for pins 2 and 3 and then get nothing. So I know I have it right. Is there something else I need to do to open the radio to program? Is there another wire needed for a RIB-Less connection? Or maybe an internal jumper to flip to allow programming? Does anyone have a simpler way to get these to be fancy walkie-talkies?

Your collective wisdom is appreciated. I am going to give my forehead a break.

 

[mikewazowski]

You need Astro Spectra CPS to read those radios.

 

[Blackhawknorth]

I have CPS...

Keeps laughing at me.
Have adjusted the startup to run as XP. Seems to want USB, Bluetooth, or POP25... no serial option for the radio. So version 36 .0 may be a bit too new I thought. Installed to XP VM... same thing. So then along with the idea that v36.00 was too new, I obtained the RSS 9.3 but by the results, this is too old?? So I am looking for something in between? Any idea as to what version?

So close... but so very far.

 

[KevinC]

I have CPS...
View attachment 191944
Keeps laughing at me.
Have adjusted the startup to run as XP. Seems to want USB, Bluetooth, or POP25... no serial option for the radio. So version 36 .0 may be a bit too new I thought. Installed to XP VM... same thing. So then along with the idea that v36.00 was too new, I obtained the RSS 9.3 but by the results, this is too old?? So I am looking for something in between? Any idea as to what version?

So close... but so very far.

Why are you trying to use APX CPS for those radios?

 

[mikewazowski]

You need Astro Spectra CPS to read those radios.

I have CPS...
View attachment 191944

Nowhere in that list does it say Astro Spectra CPS.

 

[Blackhawknorth]

APS Family CPS: CPS v36.0
I had been trying for months to get it from Motorola and even their site says you can get it... follow these steps. So I did and tried for 4 months to go that route... even emailed Motorola and didn't get anything in response. So I then went to a Motorola dealer and they first got me this APS Family CPS... which is version 36.0 of the CPS software. When it didn't have serial available in the menu, I went back and got this Version 9.03 which is a 16-bit command line app and that is what required Windows XP. Having been a long time geek, tossing it into a VM through my laptop was easy. Regardless of the version or the operating environment, I can see things from the radios, but none of this so far is having a decent conversation. My guess as you folks have stated and from everything I have read, (which led me to even trying to get CPS) is that yes, you must have the CPS software. I have CPS v36.0 and RSS v9.03. Since these both are useless, I need something in between.

I have had limited success using the MotoTools app I found... it is where I could see the radio talking to the laptop but only on initial radio turn on. I just downloaded v05.03.00 of CPS, but again... no actual meaningful dialog between the radio and laptop to program these. Once I click on read radio, it immediately pops up and advises communication with radio failed... in both Windows 11 with compatibility for Vista (it mentioned Vista on the install) or the XP VM.

This is what I now have...

So might have a good version, but again, no conversation. My understanding is the main difference between RIB-Less and RIB is that the wake-up power is shared by the cable and the radio. That is just plain DC and no need for a data connection. RIB-Less is technically what I have built through the DB15 breakout. The only thing I can think of is that I have it wired through the breakout wrong.

I apologize for the delay in response, I am only able to get at these on the weekend.

 

[mikewazowski]

Astro Spectra CPS R5.03.00 is the correct version for you radio assuming you have an Astro Spectra.

 

[Blackhawknorth]

Here are 4 of the 10. I checked the model and they are all the same model as indicated above... D04JHF9PW4AN.
I have moved the wires around and was getting the F 01/90 error. Have corrected that and can see the following in MotoTools now:
15:10:49 Port COM3 is open
15:10:54 RX(1) 05 | ?
15:10:54 RX(3) 01 01 57 | ??W
15:10:54 RX(5) DA 01 00 00 1E | ????? BUTTON CONTROL
15:10:54 RX(1) 81 | ? SQUELCH DETECT
15:10:54 RX(4) 00 03 01 0A | ????
15:10:54 RX(3) 41 01 00 | A?? SET BUTTON
15:10:54 RX(6) 01 19 19 01 0A 00 | ?????? RADIO KEYED
15:10:54 RX(6) 3C 26 00 12 05 06 | <&???? DISPLAY
15:10:54 RX(7) 39 50 F4 21 01 10 01 | 9P?!??? EXPANDED PROTOCOL REQUEST
15:10:54 RX(6) D8 50 01 0B 01 3C | ?P???<
15:10:54 RX(1) 3F | ?
15:10:54 RX(1) 05 | ?
15:10:54 RX(2) 01 00 | ??
15:10:54 RX(6) 57 B3 00 03 00 0A | W?????
15:10:54 RX(1) 28 | (
15:10:54 RX(1) 01 | ?
15:10:54 RX(4) 00 00 19 70 | ???p
15:10:54 RX(4) 00 12 05 06 | ????
15:10:54 RX(8) 39 50 F4 21 01 10 00 D9 | 9P?!???? EXPANDED PROTOCOL REQUEST
15:10:54 RX(5) 50 01 0B 00 3C | P???<
15:10:54 RX(1) 56 | V
15:10:55 RX(1) 05 | ?
15:10:55 RX(3) 01 01 57 | ??W
15:10:55 RX(2) DA 01 | ??
15:10:55 RX(3) 00 00 1E | ???
15:10:55 RX(5) 81 00 03 01 0A | ?????
15:10:55 RX(4) 41 01 00 01 | A???
15:10:55 RX(4) 19 19 01 0A | ????
15:10:55 RX(6) 00 3C 26 00 12 05 | ?<&???
15:10:55 RX(8) 06 39 50 F4 21 01 10 01 | ?9P?!???
15:10:55 RX(6) D8 50 01 0B 01 3C | ?P???<
15:10:55 RX(1) 3F | ?
15:10:55 RX(1) 05 | ?
15:10:55 RX(2) 01 00 | ??
15:10:55 RX(6) 57 B3 00 03 00 0A | W?????
15:10:55 RX(1) 28 | (
15:10:55 RX(1) 01 | ?
15:10:55 RX(4) 00 00 19 70 | ???p
15:10:55 RX(4) 00 12 05 06 | ????
15:10:55 RX(9) 39 50 F4 21 01 10 00 D9 50 | 9P?!????P EXPANDED PROTOCOL REQUEST
15:10:55 RX(4) 01 0B 00 3C | ???<
15:10:55 RX(1) 56 | V DISPLAY

I can see this when I key the mic. So wires are right. Close MotoTools and open Astro app and get:


I do appreciate the feedback folks. This can't be too far from working.

 

[Blackhawknorth]

I looked up a decoder for the model number and these are A4's. I am trying to determine if these are actual Astro Spectra's or just Astro's. Maybe this is why they will not talk to the software I have? Can anyone confirm? What will talk to an Astro? CPS v3.00 is for Spectras... is it something different for just an astro?

I f I had realized these would be such a pain I wouldn't have gotten involved with them.

 

[MTS2000des]

You are running the CPS on a 32 bit version of Windows right?
These are nearing 3 decades old. Even if you can get the programming down, they are most likely going to need overhaul including replacing pissing/leaking capacitors, and a full alignment if you actually want them to work well.

 

[KJ4DHF]

Is what I use on all my Astro Spectra's. Make sure your cable from rib to radio is good and the contacts are nice an clean,cable to pc is good, fresh battery in rib,good power supply on rib good power supply to radio and the pc UPS is the best move. Have a dummy load connected to radio for just in case the "Emergency" has been activated.

 

[mikewazowski]

Your very first post gives this model number which is an Astro Spectra (W4):

Astro Spectra Model: D04JHF9PW4AN / Serial 494CDA1689 / Canada Type: KKHA 1091941441

Now you're saying the model number (which I assume is the one above) decodes to an analog Spectra (A4).

I looked up a decoder for the model number and these are A4's.

If the model number in your first post is what you've actually got, then you've got an Astro Spectra and R05.03.00 CPS is correct.

Does the front of the control head say ASTRO?

 

[Blackhawknorth]

Finally back at it. Yes... the front display says Astro... as pictured earlier in this thread. I did not mean to throw folks off by trying to analyze the model number, I was just trying to be a thorough as possible. Maybe I got something wrong and further looking might yield what I missed.

Do these radios have a jumper to prevent programming? I have come across this error trying to read the existing configuration:
15:16:23 unable to enter SBEP mode!
I know there have been some reference to jumpers and how they enable options or change what is accessed via the DB15 port.

I have been trying all of this in the XP virtual machine and was pleased to see that it is seeing when I key the mic. So I know in Windows 10 and Windows XP that the radio is talking. I also have the TX and RX LED's to see traffic. When I am trying to use CPS I can see the TX flash but nothing on the RX. This is why I am asking about a program jumper. I can see traffic, but only on one direction unless I key the mic... then I see the TX light right up and see the data on the screen.

 

[Blackhawknorth]

Just another bit of info... I can see data on the screen when I turn the Mode knob or press any of the buttons across the top. This thing is talking and the data is recognized by MotoTools.


I would not see this if it was not talking. Which makes me wonder if I got the TX from the laptop wired correctly. When I move it to other positions, I get the self check error so this seems to be in the correct port.

 

[MTS2000des]

Virtual machines, unsupported modern hardware trying to run 20 year old software to program 25 year old radios. The only way these play nice (when they were new) was to use SUPPORTED operating systems (highest SUPPORTED was Windows 7 32 bit) and REAL serial port, genuine RLN4008x Motorola RIB and genuine cable. Even then they can be *****y. One will have better luck pissing into a fan.

 

[nokones]

I have the software, rib to radio mid-power cable, and the XP computer with real serial DB9 ports for the Astro Spectra. Let me know if I can help to program.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

If I am not mistaken, the the OPs programming cable is simply a Cisco DE-9 to 8P8C cable (i.e. a console cable with one end pinned out for rollover). That's not going to work as the radio is expecting TTL logic levels, not raw RS-232. The function of the RIB is to convert RS-232 levels down to 5V TTL levels.

 

[intuity]

Curiously, nobody saw this in OP’s first post :

👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻
Serial cable is a standard Cisco blue (DB9 to RJ45) with the RJ45 end cut off to provide wires to connect to a DB15 breakout
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

…. It never occurred to me to jam a rollover cable into a radio that cost a small fortune when new.. I am impressed though at the speed at which this thread went skidding for the weeds - and man, serial sniffing, model mismatches, VMs and ports and XP and just… wow.

👏

 

[dickie757]

Curiously, nobody saw this in OP’s first post :

👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻👇🏻
Serial cable is a standard Cisco blue (DB9 to RJ45) with the RJ45 end cut off to provide wires to connect to a DB15 breakout
👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻👆🏻

…. It never occurred to me to jam a rollover cable into a radio that cost a small fortune when new.. I am impressed though at the speed at which this thread went skidding for the weeds - and man, serial sniffing, model mismatches, VMs and ports and XP and just… wow.

👏

Curiuosly, you didnt see the last post in the thread before you hit reply.

@Blackhawknorth Did you get the correct cable and software yet?

 

[kayn1n32008]

Just another bit of info... I can see data on the screen when I turn the Mode knob or press any of the buttons across the top. This thing is talking and the data is recognized by MotoTools.

View attachment 192924
I would not see this if it was not talking. Which makes me wonder if I got the TX from the laptop wired correctly. When I move it to other positions, I get the self check error so this seems to be in the correct port.

You need a RIB, with proper cables, and a real hardware serial port on a computer with Win XP 32 bit. Never mind the leaking capacitors they most likely have.

Invest in something a bit more modern, that can at least be programmed with a win 10/11 64 bit OS. You are fighting a losing battle wit radios that have a bunch of very corrosive time bombs inside them.


Honestly, dump them for the $25-$50/ a radio