Well said!
Attention: Volunteer fire fighters/reserve police officers/security guards, etc.
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KE0GXN
Member
Yes, you all should be able to provide expert/experienced commentary that I would default to when it comes to utilizing a CCR in a firefighting environment.
Would any of you approve of your agency issuing you a CCR for duty use?
Assuming I had the authority to approve or disapprove, in a volunteer fire department situation, I would officially disapprove.
Having said that, I would not have a problem with them using a CCR away from a fire scene, i.e., to inform supervisors of the fact that they're en route, clarification on a location, etc.
For things that are not life safety critical, and not in hazardous environments, I guess I could concede. (IE, administrative personnel, maintenance, etc.)
It makes more sense to have one type of radio, rather than different types for different staff functions, to streamline user training and support logistics.
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That is why I like the trunking system we use we have control of what goes on it and the training of the members to one type radio. The plus is CCR are not made in trunking radios.
Project25_MASTR
Millennial Graying OBT Guy
Pretty much. One of the requirement for most of the volunteer departments in my area is that the radios have to meet the specifications of P25 Phase 1 trunking. The departments are free to use whatever they wish…but most are migrating to Motorola SU's as they've been the only radios which have performed to the user's expectations so far.
mmckenna
I ♥ Ø
Yeah, subscriber access control is nice, especially considering the FCC rules make it plain that the licensee is responsible for all radios on the system/under the license.
I've had people at work buy random radios and try to put the on some of my systems without permission. Often set up incorrectly, wide band, etc. Sometimes they were even on systems they had no business being on, just thinking they could have free access to a repeater.
On the flip side, the volunteer side of the fire fighting business does take a different approach. If an agency is on a trunked system, that pretty much shuts things down right there. If they are on a simple analog system, then it's going to be harder to control.
Some agencies want MDC or similar radio ID's used. Having someone randomly pick their own radio ID usually results in dispatchers getting annoyed.
Making sure radios are set up correctly is important. If a volunteer really needs to have a radio to do their job, then there should be some effort made to make sure it's set up correctly. Just from reading the posts on this site, there is a lot of confusion from people that think they need a radio but don't have the understanding to set them up correctly.
Also, not -everyone- needs a radio. Not everyone needs to transmit. Sometimes a pager or scanner is "good enough" to get people on scene. The assumption that one needs to transmit might make sense if you need to acknowledge a call, but if all you need is a pager, then stick with it.
I like to stick with the spirit of the law, makes life simpler. Not having to remember what equipment is legal, what isn't, etc. As they say, if you always tell the truth, you never have to remember your lies. All my radios, even the ones used for amateur radio use, are all Part 90. Makes it easier to use the radio for work/play, etc. I don't have to think about it.
But, like others have said, if I'm in trouble and need fire/ems here fast, I don't give a damn what sort of radio/telephone/pager/tin can and string they use to make it happen.
Doesn't mean volunteers should ignore the rules, though. It's easy to do things wrong, it takes a bit of skill to do things right. I think if you asked any of these guys if they want to do things "right", you'd probably get a positive response. Making the legal aspects known isn't a bad thing. If someone takes offense to getting accurate information, then there's probably a bigger issue at stake. If knowing that getting a $100 used HT-750 will be legal and a $50 CCR isn't, we might find that most will make the "right" decision.
But by all means, do whatever the hell you want, just not on my systems.
Did you know that if you remove one diode, and install a separate antenna connector for the receiver in it's already pre-punched hole, the PPL 6060 can be run full duplex? Pull the 15 watt PA transistor and replace it with a ceramic cap of about 10pf, and it becomes a nice 2-3 watt radio for the LPI channels. (or FRS!)
They're great radios, and if it wasn't for the demise of International Crystal, I'd be on the hunt for a few.
Ok, the real point of my popping in here is to comment about the rural volunteer situation. So, ham gear isn't legal. There ARE other options. Plenty of the cheap Chinese radios are Part 90 acceptable, but has any one considered ebay? Narrow band compliant MTS2000's can be had for $75. New batteries, new antennas, speaker-mics, chargers... It's all available for a fraction of what it sold for new, and it's still legal.
I think that's how I would go, if I were in that situation.
speedway_navigator
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These are the only 2 FCC NOVs I've found for 90.427(b).
https://tacticalrf.com/FCC/bearcom_1.pdf
https://tacticalrf.com/FCC/bearcom_2.pdf
https://tacticalrf.com/FCC/bearcom_1.pdf
https://tacticalrf.com/FCC/bearcom_2.pdf
reedeb
Member
Call me old fashioned the ONLY one needing radios are the officers and the engineer/driver. Anyone going in a building has just one job[or 2] Put the fire out and or look for victims!! Comms are the last thing they need. IF they are to back out' the officer with them and the air horns on the rigs sounding off will be enough. Fifty radios all chiming in can be a hazard. Have a large mutual aid fire try listening to the chief the crews and other towns coming in setting up or needing directions or orders is bad enough, EVERY firefighter chiming in and jamming the frequencies is lousy.
Yep. That's pretty old-fashioned.
This doesn't apply to reedeb but I'm reminded of the layman's definition of firefighting: put water on it until the fire is out or you run out of water.
As it is now NFPA recommends all firefighters on the scene have a portable. When we enter a working structure fire all radios are turned on with the crew supervisor having his radio turned up. Crews get separated easy now doing multiple task so if a member gets separated he has a radio for a mayday call.
sloop
Member
ZZ0468, KK4JUG, I understand your points of view but as a 30 yr vet of the fire service I will not permit any of my men to risk their lives on "cheap Chinese radios"! The only people that must have a radio at a fire scene are the officers (inc. Chief, assist. chief, safety officer, etc.) and one person in the interior attack crew (usually 3 men). Any more causes confusion. We have devices that automatically tell if a man is down. I know that paid city depts. are different. Urban interface fires are also different because of the area covered, but one radio per crew (my area that is five men) is adequate. Once again, wildland firefighting in the Rockies is different but they are issued radios as needed. I also feel that this topic has been beat to death. People are going to do what they want to do regardless and justify it.
While I have respect for ham radio operators. We are amateurs! I have very greater respect for volunteers who risk there lives while sacrificing time from there families. They are more often professionals!
I am beginning to think SOME and I hope it is a very small percentage have lost there minds. Reality has went south for those who are complaining about the problems of non certified radios and amateurs at a fire /rescue situation!
A volunteer fire fighter is not an amateur who just fell off the boat. He is most likely a trained professional who knows the difference between, Emergency traffic, logistic traffic and bull **** cessions. As such he has the option of keying the mic. Or not!
The more people who are involved who have the OPPORTUNITY to receive information over the radio, the better. It goes back to the professional knows when to key the mic.
If you are worried about weather the 3rd harmonic is down 60 Db while the house is burning down. I do not expect you to understand that you are not the solution. I assure you. You are not!
As for Baofeng radios. I may live in what some would call the back woods of hillbilly hell where a lot of the volunteers not only donate time but also buy some of there equipment. Most of these people are not rich and yes most of those that buy there own radios buy baofengs. While most, not all with 6 figure incomes are to busy to worry about volunteering they can sure find time to ***** about non certified radios or how all the volunteers with radios might muck up the situation.
Now try to stick with me on this one. If you are a volunteer and show up at my house when it is burning down. The better equipped you are the smoother the situation will be handled and I thank you! If at this time you do not understand the above. Save yourself some time and read no further as I have obviously lost you by now.
If you are one who feels that everything must be certified and approved before you would even consider using it. PLEASE STAY HOME! You will just get in the way of those trying to help.
A radio does have a mic. and an on off switch. A professional is completely capable of knowing the use of both.
I fear America has become a land of too many incompetent, insecure, paranoid people that cant make a decision without an operations manual. To those I say “Girls please don’t leave the yard and be in the house during the times of ½ hour before sunset and ½ hour after sun rise”!
As for the remainder of the fine men and women who serve this great country. I salute you!
I am beginning to think SOME and I hope it is a very small percentage have lost there minds. Reality has went south for those who are complaining about the problems of non certified radios and amateurs at a fire /rescue situation!
A volunteer fire fighter is not an amateur who just fell off the boat. He is most likely a trained professional who knows the difference between, Emergency traffic, logistic traffic and bull **** cessions. As such he has the option of keying the mic. Or not!
The more people who are involved who have the OPPORTUNITY to receive information over the radio, the better. It goes back to the professional knows when to key the mic.
If you are worried about weather the 3rd harmonic is down 60 Db while the house is burning down. I do not expect you to understand that you are not the solution. I assure you. You are not!
As for Baofeng radios. I may live in what some would call the back woods of hillbilly hell where a lot of the volunteers not only donate time but also buy some of there equipment. Most of these people are not rich and yes most of those that buy there own radios buy baofengs. While most, not all with 6 figure incomes are to busy to worry about volunteering they can sure find time to ***** about non certified radios or how all the volunteers with radios might muck up the situation.
Now try to stick with me on this one. If you are a volunteer and show up at my house when it is burning down. The better equipped you are the smoother the situation will be handled and I thank you! If at this time you do not understand the above. Save yourself some time and read no further as I have obviously lost you by now.
If you are one who feels that everything must be certified and approved before you would even consider using it. PLEASE STAY HOME! You will just get in the way of those trying to help.
A radio does have a mic. and an on off switch. A professional is completely capable of knowing the use of both.
I fear America has become a land of too many incompetent, insecure, paranoid people that cant make a decision without an operations manual. To those I say “Girls please don’t leave the yard and be in the house during the times of ½ hour before sunset and ½ hour after sun rise”!
As for the remainder of the fine men and women who serve this great country. I salute you!
A couple of thoughts before I close this thread:
My original post was about amateur radio gear being modified to transmit out of band and then being used by those in public service where an FCC certificated radio is required. I said nothing about cheap, Chinese radios many of which have FCC certification.
I believe that I also said that I really didn't care if a volunteer fire fighter used a non-FCC certificated radio to listen for dispatches. I also don't have much of a problem if they use that non-FCC certificated radio to mark enroute. The potential issues arise when that non-FCC certificated radio causes communications problems at a fire scene or contributes to the fire or simply fails because it isn't up to the task.
When the tool, any tool, can have a direct impact on first responder safety, then the users of those tools should give some thought about the continued use of those tools. A fire fighter would not walk into a working fire if there was any question about the reliability of their SCBA gear and a police officer would not approach a dangerous subject if there was any question about the reliability of his/her firearm. A radio is no different.
Since I started this thread, I can request that it be closed. Since I'm a moderator here, I can close it myself. Thank you all for your input.
My original post was about amateur radio gear being modified to transmit out of band and then being used by those in public service where an FCC certificated radio is required. I said nothing about cheap, Chinese radios many of which have FCC certification.
I believe that I also said that I really didn't care if a volunteer fire fighter used a non-FCC certificated radio to listen for dispatches. I also don't have much of a problem if they use that non-FCC certificated radio to mark enroute. The potential issues arise when that non-FCC certificated radio causes communications problems at a fire scene or contributes to the fire or simply fails because it isn't up to the task.
When the tool, any tool, can have a direct impact on first responder safety, then the users of those tools should give some thought about the continued use of those tools. A fire fighter would not walk into a working fire if there was any question about the reliability of their SCBA gear and a police officer would not approach a dangerous subject if there was any question about the reliability of his/her firearm. A radio is no different.
Since I started this thread, I can request that it be closed. Since I'm a moderator here, I can close it myself. Thank you all for your input.
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