Automatic LMR-to-LTE Failover on P25 Phase 1 Conventional

[treyboothe]

Looking for some input on LMR-to-LTE PTToC switching.

We are currently evaluating new portable and mobile subscribers for a P25 Phase 1 conventional One of the main capabilities I’m looking for is automatic geospatial switching from LMR to an LTE/Wi-Fi PTT platform when a unit enters a pre-designated zone (known area with poor radio coverage.)

Since we do not have a control channel for polling RSSI, my thought would be to utilize geospatial switching to reliably automate a traditional coverage-based failover. My thought is to create predefined geospatial zones where the radio automatically transitions or “fails over” to LTE/Wi-Fi voice.

For example, when a unit enters a hospital, station, or known coverage gap, the subscriber would automatically move to the broadband PTT platform without requiring the user to manually change modes. Ideally, it would return to LMR once the unit leaves that zone as well.

A few questions for those who have researched or deployed something similar:

• Are any manufacturers currently supporting geofence-based LMR-to-LTE switching?
  • I am currently in conversation with multiple vendors; however, it is difficult to obtain answers to these questions.
• Is there another method for automatic failover on a conventional P25 system that I may be overlooking?
• Can your PTToC unit ID and LMR unit IDs (not utilizing a donor radio ID, wanting PTToC IDs to be unique), emergency activation, and GPS data remain transparent across LMR and LTE?

I would appreciate hearing what others have implemented and which manufacturers or platforms are handling this well.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

I think you may want to consider P25 conventional infrastructure that supports beaconing to support voting scan as it would provide you that quick RSSI assessment. Zetron/Codan repeaters can do that. EFJ repeaters should be able to do that, Tait should be able to do that IIRC. EFJ also offers Conventional Affiliation in Atlas which may actually do everything you want on the VP8000 when paired with LTE failover. I'm not 100% certain how BK's InteropOne works either. That does use donor radios (if you want it to) but since it uses JPS Z-series with DFSI it can natively pass SUIDs back and forth (if you configure it to do so).

 

[MTS2000des]

SmartConnect with APX NEXT can be accomplished if you can get your conventional P25 to a nearby M core. A local county who is still on VHF analog is doing this.

 

[treyboothe]

I think you may want to consider P25 conventional infrastructure that supports beaconing to support voting scan as it would provide you that quick RSSI assessment. Zetron/Codan repeaters can do that. EFJ repeaters should be able to do that, Tait should be able to do that IIRC. EFJ also offers Conventional Affiliation in Atlas which may actually do everything you want on the VP8000 when paired with LTE failover. I'm not 100% certain how BK's InteropOne works either. That does use donor radios (if you want it to) but since it uses JPS Z-series with DFSI it can natively pass SUIDs back and forth (if you configure it to do so).

This is interesting, I actually haven’t had this offered to me before, so I may need to do some research on it. Currently we’re running Leonardo P25 conventional infrastructure, and we don’t have any immediate plans to upgrade the RF infrastructure itself.


We’ve looked at migrating to a couple of nearby trunked systems, including our statewide system and a regional system. Unfortunately, the statewide system has some significant coverage gaps in our area, whereas the regional system bordering our county has been much more promising.


I also have a meeting with BK this week to discuss InteropONE, so I’m hoping to get a better understanding of how they’re handling this use case.


Didn’t realize the JPS Z-Series can SUIDs over DFSI. One of the issues I ran into w/ JPS is finding a PTToC service that integrate directly into a radio. If JPS can transparently preserve and pass the originating SUIDs, that definitely changes some of my thinking.

 

[Project25_MASTR]

This is interesting, I actually haven’t had this offered to me before, so I may need to do some research on it. Currently we’re running Leonardo P25 conventional infrastructure, and we don’t have any immediate plans to upgrade the RF infrastructure itself.


We’ve looked at migrating to a couple of nearby trunked systems, including our statewide system and a regional system. Unfortunately, the statewide system has some significant coverage gaps in our area, whereas the regional system bordering our county has been much more promising.


I also have a meeting with BK this week to discuss InteropONE, so I’m hoping to get a better understanding of how they’re handling this use case.


Didn’t realize the JPS Z-Series can SUIDs over DFSI. One of the issues I ran into w/ JPS is finding a PTToC service that integrate directly into a radio. If JPS can transparently preserve and pass the originating SUIDs, that definitely changes some of my thinking.

DFSI support is a rather new feature on the Z-Series. IIRC a DSP-Z2 can handle up to four gateways but since it only has two analog interfaces only two of those can be analog. The others can be SIP or DFSI (or three with an analog or all four) though there are USB dongles that have to be licensed for DFSI. The feature was developed around the requirements of InteropONE since BK mobiles have a native DFSI Ethernet interface on them (and supposedly the BKR9000 is supposed to be receiving DFSI support for WiFi). L3-Harris mobiles also have support for DFSI on the rear of the radio as well.

 

[jeepsandradios]

Depends on what subscriber you are looking for. Each will have its own solution. MSI has smart connect. While I dont know if the atomatic switch is there you could have channel 1 on P25 and channel 2 on SC then have a patch on a console.

 

[pewpew45]

This is interesting, I actually haven’t had this offered to me before, so I may need to do some research on it. Currently we’re running Leonardo P25 conventional infrastructure, and we don’t have any immediate plans to upgrade the RF infrastructure itself.


We’ve looked at migrating to a couple of nearby trunked systems, including our statewide system and a regional system. Unfortunately, the statewide system has some significant coverage gaps in our area, whereas the regional system bordering our county has been much more promising.


I also have a meeting with BK this week to discuss InteropONE, so I’m hoping to get a better understanding of how they’re handling this use case.


Didn’t realize the JPS Z-Series can SUIDs over DFSI. One of the issues I ran into w/ JPS is finding a PTToC service that integrate directly into a radio. If JPS can transparently preserve and pass the originating SUIDs, that definitely changes some of my thinking.

ESChat PTT has their SDK directly baked into the JPS-Z2. Pair that with using Kenwood VP8000's which utilize Viking Connect that connects natively to ESChat and you have both LMR and Broadband connectivity to your system/channels. ESCHAT.com

 

[speedway_navigator]

Currently we’re running Leonardo P25 conventional infrastructure,

I think you are the first I've heard of using Leonardo. Any + or - over the bigger competitors you can mention?

A question for those using GPS, is that just US satellites or GNSS?
Do you see alternatives like NexNav or broadcast PNT being added for location determination?