AWIN Discussion

[davenlr]

If I had to guess (and it was the same when they went from individual conventional channels to the Motorola Type 2 trunked system) was that Motorola did one department at a time, so they could get the bugs worked out before they moved on to the next department. They didnt have enough techs to have one at every department which would be nessessary if they switched all at once. Now, I dont know how big a transition it is from Type 2 to Awins (do they need to replace all the radios, or just reprogram the current ones?) Who installs the radios in all the vehicles if it requires a switchout, and if they are both running at the same time, where do they find the room? Lots of things I dont know about the switchover. I would think, Maumelle would not be hurting for funds, since its not that large of a department compared to Little Rock.

It does make it easier and faster to scan the various departments, being all one one system. For example, I couldnt use a priority alert for NLR Fire dispatch if everyone was on a separate system, and would probably miss a lot of fire calls, because it would be locked up with LRPD running license checks and getting entered into the computer With Awins, it will jump over to LRFD immediately as soon as the currently broadcasting channel unkeys.

 

[03msc]

If I had to guess (and it was the same when they went from individual conventional channels to the Motorola Type 2 trunked system) was that Motorola did one department at a time, so they could get the bugs worked out before they moved on to the next department. They didnt have enough techs to have one at every department which would be nessessary if they switched all at once. Now, I dont know how big a transition it is from Type 2 to Awins (do they need to replace all the radios, or just reprogram the current ones?) Who installs the radios in all the vehicles if it requires a switchout, and if they are both running at the same time, where do they find the room? Lots of things I dont know about the switchover. I would think, Maumelle would not be hurting for funds, since its not that large of a department compared to Little Rock.

It does make it easier and faster to scan the various departments, being all one one system. For example, I couldnt use a priority alert for NLR Fire dispatch if everyone was on a separate system, and would probably miss a lot of fire calls, because it would be locked up with LRPD running license checks and getting entered into the computer With Awins, it will jump over to LRFD immediately as soon as the currently broadcasting channel unkeys.

Pretty sure you're right on with this statement - if they switched them all to AWIN (no S) at once they risk have problems and everyone being without communication. They 'roll it out' gradually, starting with the least critical groups, to make sure things are working as they should be and then they move on to the critical groups/departments. If you think about it, it just makes sense to do it that way. But yes, also makes it difficult to monitor when you're in an area that is transitioning to AWIN (or any new system)!

 

[dbs1023]

Almost all the traffic on simulcast, is on Shinall Mountain as well. Maybe if you turn off simulcast, and just scan Shinall Mountain site, it will sound better?

I tried that last night and yes it did start working better...still not all that great. I imagine it will get better once pcso, Sherwood etc. Get on board.

 

[davenlr]

Looks like the only major department around here left to switch is PCSO and maybe some of the smaller fire departments.

 

[dbs1023]

If I had to guess (and it was the same when they went from individual conventional channels to the Motorola Type 2 trunked system) was that Motorola did one department at a time, so they could get the bugs worked out before they moved on to the next department. They didnt have enough techs to have one at every department which would be nessessary if they switched all at once. Now, I dont know how big a transition it is from Type 2 to Awins (do they need to replace all the radios, or just reprogram the current ones?) Who installs the radios in all the vehicles if it requires a switchout, and if they are both running at the same time, where do they find the room? Lots of things I dont know about the switchover. I would think, Maumelle would not be hurting for funds, since its not that large of a department compared to Little Rock.

It does make it easier and faster to scan the various departments, being all one one system. For example, I couldnt use a priority alert for NLR Fire dispatch if everyone was on a separate system, and would probably miss a lot of fire calls, because it would be locked up with LRPD running license checks and getting entered into the computer With Awins, it will jump over to LRFD immediately as soon as the currently broadcasting channel unkeys.

Some of the departments had to buy all new radios because they were not upgradable. Others were able upgrade some equipment and program. I know one of the upgrades included adding GPS.

 

[INDY72]

It is a mater of the following: FUNDS, the transition costs in the 7 figure range. They had to build new towers for the simulcast, replace hundreds of radios/consoles/controller/etc, train everyone on the new system etc... SECURITY, the AWIN is a much more secure system than the Legacy Smartzone it is replacing, and has a lot more functionality especially in regards to interop with pretty much the whole state.. QUALITY, AWIN has much better audio quality than the Legacy system, as well as so much simpler upgradeability etc giving it better bang for buck. No other option really - Motorola is discontinuing support for the Smartzone systems, so it was upgrade time. There were other considerations as well...

And yes, it is done 1 department at a time, even if you have a million full time techs on it for quality assurance. Each fire department has special needs radio wise, as they have SCBA's that require special "tuning" on digital systems, and other things that are unique to fire comms. Initial staging was done up in IL at Motorola, but from the issues that occurred on location, apparently not enough (lol). Each PD has its own special needs also. As you bring the new side of the system online, you have to test test test, and retest for audio quality, range testing, etc ad infinitum, before you even start moving units over.

 

[KF5EYR]

It is a mater of the following: FUNDS, the transition costs in the 7 figure range. They had to build new towers for the simulcast, replace hundreds of radios/consoles/controller/etc, train everyone on the new system etc... SECURITY, the AWIN is a much more secure system than the Legacy Smartzone it is replacing, and has a lot more functionality especially in regards to interop with pretty much the whole state.. QUALITY, AWIN has much better audio quality than the Legacy system, as well as so much simpler upgradeability etc giving it better bang for buck. No other option really - Motorola is discontinuing support for the Smartzone systems, so it was upgrade time. There were other considerations as well...

And yes, it is done 1 department at a time, even if you have a million full time techs on it for quality assurance. Each fire department has special needs radio wise, as they have SCBA's that require special "tuning" on digital systems, and other things that are unique to fire comms. Initial staging was done up in IL at Motorola, but from the issues that occurred on location, apparently not enough (lol). Each PD has its own special needs also. As you bring the new side of the system online, you have to test test test, and retest for audio quality, range testing, etc ad infinitum, before you even start moving units over.

I thought it was something along those lines. I guess that is what makes our hobby so interesting. My concern from the standpoint of where I live is the NLRPD's use of encryption. LRPD initially did the same but, have ceased to do so. And, for some odd reason the NLRFD has not, to my knowledge; used encryption at any point. I am hoping that at some point, NLRPD will follow LRPD's lead; and do the same. But, I guess we won't know until they decide one way or the other. Just on a side note, milf; I see that you are the moderator for Arkansas, but; live in Indiana (I think). How are you able to keep up with us hillbillies down here? It must be difficult from such a far removed Yankee outpost. I mean that in a good way. Take care, my friend.

 

[03msc]

I thought it was something along those lines. I guess that is what makes our hobby so interesting. My concern from the standpoint of where I live is the NLRPD's use of encryption. LRPD initially did the same but, have ceased to do so. And, for some odd reason the NLRFD has not, to my knowledge; used encryption at any point. I am hoping that at some point, NLRPD will follow LRPD's lead; and do the same. But, I guess we won't know until they decide one way or the other. Just on a side note, milf; I see that you are the moderator for Arkansas, but; live in Indiana (I think). How are you able to keep up with us hillbillies down here? It must be difficult from such a far removed Yankee outpost. I mean that in a good way. Take care, my friend.

I have wondered the same...milf always seems to have the inside info on the happenings here in AR so he either has a resource we don't know about or he has 'friends in high places' that are in the know. Either way, I'm glad!

 

[INDY72]

I thought it was something along those lines. I guess that is what makes our hobby so interesting. My concern from the standpoint of where I live is the NLRPD's use of encryption. LRPD initially did the same but, have ceased to do so. And, for some odd reason the NLRFD has not, to my knowledge; used encryption at any point. I am hoping that at some point, NLRPD will follow LRPD's lead; and do the same. But, I guess we won't know until they decide one way or the other. Just on a side note, milf; I see that you are the moderator for Arkansas, but; live in Indiana (I think). How are you able to keep up with us hillbillies down here? It must be difficult from such a far removed Yankee outpost. I mean that in a good way. Take care, my friend.

I lived in Hot Springs for a while, and made a lot of contacts in public safety, government and in some businesses down thar. My mother, sisters, and friends still live there. Same with TN, NC, SC, NY, LA, and my home state MS. And am still making a lot of contacts here in IN. Plus it helps to have a cousin in State Government... Gives lots of inroads to "hobnob!"

 

[INDY72]

And on the encryption... I should wiki this too lol... US DHS has "recommended" that all public safety radio systems use full time encryption on every thing, every time. Motorola, I know for a fact makes it SOP for encryption to be turned on on all new P25 trunking radios. It is up to each individual agency to decide to turn it off and broadcast in the clear. This includes fire, law, ems, the dog catcher etc if they are using an public safety system.

 

[aspclay]

As an added note, the Pulaski Co. Sheriffs, Maumelle PD and FD, Sherwood PD and FD, and the individual hospitals are still using the old Little Rock Public Service analogue Motorola system. Lots of traffic still on that.

Maumelle and Sherwood have already moved to AWIN, The only major agency that hasn't is Pulaski County sheriffs office. And I still hear some MEMS traffic on there.


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[dbs1023]

Maumelle and Sherwood have already moved to AWIN, The only major agency that hasn't is Pulaski County sheriffs office. And I still hear some MEMS traffic on there.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

At 5pm today I was still hearing Sherwood on the analog. I didn't have any wildcards active. What are the th id's ?

 

[davenlr]

At 5pm today I was still hearing Sherwood on the analog. I didn't have any wildcards active. What are the th id's ?

Listened to a long Sherwood PD dispatch while searching AWIN and nothing came through on Awin yet.

 

[INDY72]

This is when having multiple scanners running, or having a log of the RID's comes in play lol. One scanner on the Legacy System, one on AWIN.... Or trunking analysis softwares comparing RID's to the TG's.... Because if Sherwood PD comes on encrypted, you won't hear audio on the new scanners. FD, you won't have any trouble ID'ing them quickly. And I am still surprised MEMS does not have an dedicated local range dispatch TG. They are running on an MED Net TG.... Oh well whatever works lol.

 

[dbs1023]

Milf, I thought you posted a timeline on when everyone in Pulaski county was going to try and switch over to awin and I can't find it. Can you help me out?

 

[INDY72]

Last I was told, All Primary Public Safety should be on by April 1 if they got Sherwood FD issues fixed. DPW's should all be on by June 1. Analog should be offlined by December if everything goes as planned.

As far as I know. the only agencies still analog beside the DPW's, VFD's are Sherwood PD/FD, PCSO/EMA. SO and Sherwood were supposed to be coming on within next couple of weeks....

(Remember, there have already been several issues with technicalities with this transition and at least 3 major delays, and 4 minor ones.)

 

[INDY72]

To properly follow ASP, you actually want to program in ALL the sites that you can receive. As with any mobile unit on an wide area TRS, as the unit travels, it switches from site to site as its radio gets the best "capture" of an given site and affiliates with it. With the Simulcast, all traffic from all 3 sites is shared simultaneously between them. So anywhere in the coverage of those 3 towers and an radio affiliates, you will hear its traffic on all 3 of them. Most ASP units in the Little Rock area will affiliate with the original stand alone sites as they get in "capture" range of them. Once the simulcast is fully up to speed and fully linking to the surrounding area in the zone, things could get interesting for monitoring ASP, AHP, etc...

To illustrate this properly, lets say an ASP unit gets into an chase that goes from far East of Little Rock, proceeds through Little Rock, and finally is terminated in lets say, Lonoke? As the trooper drives along, his radio will move close to several sites of the AWIN. While in the "capture" area of each site, his radio will affiliate and you can hear traffic on that site. As the chase moves on, his radio will find the next site and so on. Now if there is an person with an AWIN radio with ASP A's TG's programmed into it that affiliates on a site near you, then you will hear all ASP A's traffic as long as that radio is affiliated, and powered on. And being near Little Rock, you literally could hear traffic from any, and all ASP Troops as units from every district are always coming to Little Rock for multiple reasons.

OK.. added to wiki as an talk article!

 

[dbs1023]

Last I was told, All Primary Public Safety should be on by April 1 if they got Sherwood FD issues fixed. DPW's should all be on by June 1. Analog should be offlined by December if everything goes as planned.

As far as I know. the only agencies still analog beside the DPW's, VFD's are Sherwood PD/FD, PCSO/EMA. SO and Sherwood were supposed to be coming on within next couple of weeks....

(Remember, there have already been several issues with technicalities with this transition and at least 3 major delays, and 4 minor ones.)

I am assuming the reason I am not able to get anything from the East Little Rock site is due to the transition to awin no being complete yet and the site is currently in use for the old analog system??

 

[INDY72]

All 3 towers of the simulcast system are fully online. They are very strategically located to provide maximum coverage for the metro area. All 3 are broadcasting the exact same frequencies, CC's, ACC's, TG's etc at the exact same time. Your scanner may not be able to properly decode the simulcast due to the very well documented problems scanners have on LSM C-QPSK P25 Simulcast. SO far, the only scanners that properly decode these are the new Uniden BCDXXXHP's. Read up on the simulcast issues, and then see if implementation of one or more of the "tricks" fixes the situation for you. With LSM simulcasts, location, attenuation, type of antenna, weather, all play roles in reception on most scanners.

 

[dbs1023]

All 3 towers of the simulcast system are fully online. They are very strategically located to provide maximum coverage for the metro area. All 3 are broadcasting the exact same frequencies, CC's, ACC's, TG's etc at the exact same time. Your scanner may not be able to properly decode the simulcast due to the very well documented problems scanners have on LSM C-QPSK P25 Simulcast. SO far, the only scanners that properly decode these are the new Uniden BCDXXXHP's. Read up on the simulcast issues, and then see if implementation of one or more of the "tricks" fixes the situation for you.

I have the 436hp and have ran it on discovery mode for the east little rock site and come up with 0 hits. I can run discovery mode on shinall or the simulcast for LR and have hits like crazy. I live about 20 minutes away from the east little rock site and about 45 minutes from shinall. That is why I am thinking the east little rock site is not online for awin.