Band Plan for Collin Co Public Safety and Dallas City Local Govt Systems

[TexTAC]

Does anyone know what band plan to program for (1) Collin County Public Safety and (2) Dallas City Local Government on an SDS100?

I am using these settings for both:

Custom band plan 1, 851.0250 base, 854.0000 upper, 440 offset, positive polarity, 25khz spacing

Custom band plan 2, 851.0125 base, 868.9875 upper, 0 offset, positive polarity, 25khz spacing

 

[hiegtx]

Does anyone know what band plan to program for (1) Collin County Public Safety and (2) Dallas City Local Government on an SDS100?

I am using these settings for both:

Custom band plan 1, 851.0250 base, 854.0000 upper, 440 offset, positive polarity, 25khz spacing

Custom band plan 2, 851.0125 base, 868.9875 upper, 0 offset, positive polarity, 25khz spacing

For the Dallas Local Government System, no band plan is needed. For a 'rebanded system', where all of the system frequencies have a 5 in the fourth decimal place, you do not need to enter a band plan. The system will track correctly without one.

For the Collin County Public Safety system, you do need a band plan, because one or more of the system frequencies has a zero in the fourth decimal place,

The correct band plan tables for both Uniden & GRE/Whistler scanners can be found on the Rebanding article in the Wiki,

Rebanding - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

As you probably know, the Collin County system is being phased out, and is being replaced by a layer on the P25 PAWM system. No band plan entry is required for a P25 system, as that the scanner will receive information needed via the system;s control channel data.

The Dallas LG system is also slowly being phased out. Individual departments are transitioning to the Dallas P25 Simulcast system. Once the new system is fully operational, the old system will no longer be needed. I have not seen specific statements on whether some of the current analog system's frequencies will be utilized on the new system, nor whether the old system might be kept as a backup to the new system.

 

[letarotor]

It's my understanding that when Dallas finally updates / upgrades they will be on the Fort Worth Regional Radio System as a different layer. That projected earliest date would be in 2023 according to a source that I know. That information's about a year old but that's the understanding I have.

There was some interesting information in the last reply that I did not know such as not needing a band plan on a P25 system. Thanks for the info!

Brian
COMMSCAN

 

[TexTAC]

The SDS100 gives me three band plan choices - 800/900 Standard, 800 Splinter, and Custom. For the Dallas Local Government system should I just use custom and set everything to the default values? I have “custom” set for the Collin County Public Safety System and used the values in the table you linked. Thank you for your help.

On both of these systems, I do not get a constant CC signal like I do on the P25 systems I have programmed. Not sure if that is normal for a rebranded system or not which is why I think I am missing some traffic.

 

[hiegtx]

The SDS100 gives me three band plan choices - 800/900 Standard, 800 Splinter, and Custom. For the Dallas Local Government system should I just use custom and set everything to the default values? I have “custom” set for the Collin County Public Safety System and used the values in the table you linked. Thank you for your help.

On both of these systems, I do not get a constant CC signal like I do on the P25 systems I have programmed. Not sure if that is normal for a rebranded system or not which is why I think I am missing some traffic.

You would use Standard for the Dallas system, and as noted, no band plan is needed.

For the Collin County (analog) system, you would use custom. and populate the tables correctly. But since you are using your SDS100, why not simply append the Collin County system to your Favorites list from the main database? That way, the correct plan, and tables, would already be entered.

 

[letarotor]

... I do not get a constant CC signal like I do on the P25 systems I have programmed. Not sure if that is normal for a rebranded system or not which is why I think I am missing some traffic.

On the two major FWRRS sites, Layer 1 and Layer 2, I've noticed the same thing with the control channel on L2. L1 has a constant data stream/signal strength indicated but L2 seems to drop out and come back up.

It's been 2 years now since something changed on L2 and the signal strength dropped down considerably in the NW part of Tarrant County. I thought with the radio testing going on lately on the interoperability channels that maybe they had finally fixed it because I had two days of pegged out, solid L2 signal strength. But today those hopes were dashed as it went back to the way it has been acting since September/October 2018. And when the SS is low, usually between no bars and maybe two bars on the SS meter, I know that I am missing some transmissions sometimes as I compare listening on my G5 or the other SDS radio I have where I can hear the signal being missed on one of the SDS radios.

So I have some interest in that question you asked also. I don't know if it's just because the signal strength isn't as strong or if it's something else that causes that control channel drop out on the L2 FWRRS site at my location where a periodically will miss a reply for part of a transmission?

Brian
COMMSCAN

 

[hiegtx]

It's my understanding that when Dallas finally updates / upgrades they will be on the Fort Worth Regional Radio System as a different layer. That projected earliest date would be in 2023 according to a source that I know. That information's about a year old but that's the understanding I have.

There was some interesting information in the last reply that I did not know such as not needing a band plan on a P25 system. Thanks for the info!

Brian
COMMSCAN

Brian,

Things, of course, could have changed, but my understanding is that the Dallas P25 Simulcast system, to be used by both Dallas (city) & Dallas County, will be a stand-alone system. not part of FWRRS. There will be some interop overlap connections between them, but not a direct connection of the systems themselves. That would, indirectly, seem to be confirmed in that some of the identified talkgroups on the Dallas P25 system are used by other agencies on FWRRS. If the two systems were to be joined at the hip, talkgroups could not be duplicated.

 

[TexTAC]

[QUOTE="hiegtx, post: 3421002, member: 29840" But since you are using your SDS100, why not simply append the Collin County system to your Favorites list from the main database? That way, the correct plan, and tables, would already be entered.
[/QUOTE]
Ah! I didn’t think Sentinel would download the correct band plan because I didn’t see the band plan info on the RR database.

 

[letarotor]

Brian,

Things, of course, could have changed, but my understanding is that the Dallas P25 Simulcast system, to be used by both Dallas (city) & Dallas County, will be a stand-alone system. not part of FWRRS. There will be some interop overlap connections between them, but not a direct connection of the systems themselves. That would, indirectly, seem to be confirmed in that some of the identified talkgroups on the Dallas P25 system are used by other agencies on FWRRS. If the two systems were to be joined at the hip, talkgroups could not be duplicated.

Thanks for that info too. It may be that things have changed since my radio manager friend over at Dallas had passed on some information to me. He did mention however that they would be a completely different system but a different layer on the Fort Worth RRS. I'm afraid though that a lot of what is easy to hear today may disappear at the same time. That horrible word that begins with E has been used quite often and it may be the way things go? I hope not! Thanks for the reply hiegtx and the info as well.

Brian
COMMSCAN

 

[hiegtx]

Thanks for that info too. It may be that things have changed since my radio manager friend over at Dallas had passed on some information to me. He did mention however that they would be a completely different system but a different layer on the Fort Worth RRS. I'm afraid though that a lot of what is easy to hear today may disappear at the same time. That horrible word that begins with E has been used quite often and it may be the way things go? I hope not! Thanks for the reply hiegtx and the info as well.

Brian
COMMSCAN

Brian,

One of the comments that I saw in the minutes when the Dallas County Commissioners were considering proceeding with the new system, was that with the new system, 'encryption could be used'. Of course, we all know that this was (and still is) possible with the older systems, but it is likely easier to implement on the P25 trunked systems.

 

[letarotor]

Brian,

One of the comments that I saw in the minutes when the Dallas County Commissioners were considering proceeding with the new system, was that with the new system, 'encryption could be used'. Of course, we all know that this was (and still is) possible with the older systems, but it is likely easier to implement on the P25 trunked systems.

Yeah and it's cheaper too nowadays. I've heard the same thing and it sounds like that's the way Dallas wants to go. I really hope they don't but there's not much and I can do about that. Even my friend that is in charge of a lot of what goes on with the city of Dallas radios has no say over the encryption topic. He doesn't want it either but it's not up to him. Time will tell...

Brian
COMMSCAN

 

[hiegtx]

Yeah and it's cheaper too nowadays. I've heard the same thing and it sounds like that's the way Dallas wants to go. I really hope they don't but there's not much and I can do about that. Even my friend that is in charge of a lot of what goes on with the city of Dallas radios has no say over the encryption topic. He doesn't want it either but it's not up to him. Time will tell...

Brian
COMMSCAN

Hopefully, they will leave the dispatch channels alone. I also hope that they do not follow Garland & Mesquite, among others, and fully encrypt all Fire talkgroups. Other than possibly an investigative Fire TGID, like for Arson cases, there is no real reason to encrypt fire. But Arlington, and some of the others apparently, chose to encrypt fire since often FD & PD units respond to the same incidents. Arlington has complained about a citizens group showing up at incidents & filming them. But Arlington, as well as Fort Worth, has had instances where their officers made poor decisions which resulted in questionable shootings.

 

[letarotor]

Hopefully, they will leave the dispatch channels alone. I also hope that they do not follow Garland & Mesquite, among others, and fully encrypt all Fire talkgroups. Other than possibly an investigative Fire TGID, like for Arson cases, there is no real reason to encrypt fire. But Arlington, and some of the others apparently, chose to encrypt fire since often FD & PD units respond to the same incidents. Arlington has complained about a citizens group showing up at incidents & filming them. But Arlington, as well as Fort Worth, has had instances where their officers made poor decisions which resulted in questionable shootings.

I know what you mean and I hate it when that happens with full encryption. It's completely unnecessary. Heck, somebody could give a criminal a brand new SDS100 and they wouldn't have a clue how to listen in. Most of the time people interested in listening in have problems figuring it out. I've seen very little to almost know problems since I started listening 40 years ago as a kid. There are always situations where something could go wrong so agencies will stick with that reason just because they don't want to have the media, hobbyist, or criminals trying to monitor. Most of the law enforcement friends I know are all anti-encryption themselves. They realize it's not necessary and that it doesn't really solve problems or require hiding everything from anyone being able to listen in. I know what you mean about Arlington too. They got real perturbed when the media monitored something on a fire channel and showed up at a PD call so that made them want to encrypt everything. A lot of times it's just the not understanding that makes them want to do this. Most of the public safety officials don't have any interest in monitoring or even listening to a radio when they're off work. They have the idea that it's a bad thing and bad people do it a lot of times which is unfortunately brought up in their minds when things like the citizens group that might be filming show up. It's too bad people like that do these things because most agencies don't want people filming them or showing up at scenes whenever something's going on. And that's understandable too. But with the ease of using a smartphone or many other things that stick in the heads of people who don't really listen as a hobby, it worries them and they figure encryption will let them do what they want without anybody being able to know about it or show up and watch. Times have changed and I miss the days of encryption not even being used on federal frequencies. I wish they would leave the dispatch channels and similar channels like that at least in the clear. There are a lot of us hobbyist out there that have spent many years enjoying and keeping advised of what is going on. And many times this has been to the benefit of public safety officials. But all it takes is a perception of how things can go bad, and in today's environment, it has really impacted the joy of our hobby and being able to listen in to what's going on in the world over the radio. Okay, I'm going to shut up now I just had to put my experience and 2 cents in there haha. I'm not trying to offend or perturb anybody either.

Brian
COMMSCAN

 

[TexTAC]

I just noticed that my SDS100 has “Band Plan” data entered for the GMRS (Garland, Mesquite, Rowlette, Sachse) system GMRS site when I downloaded from RR. RR doesn’t indicate this system is rebranded, so why did the SDS100 enter Band Plan info? Just curious cause I don’t understand Band Plans and am trying to learn what they are and when they are needed. If I had entered the GMRS system manually, I would not have known it required band plan info.

 

[nd5y]

I just noticed that my SDS100 has “Band Plan” data entered for the GMRS (Garland, Mesquite, Rowlette, Sachse) system GMRS site when I downloaded from RR. RR doesn’t indicate this system is rebranded, so why did the SDS100 enter Band Plan info? Just curious cause I don’t understand Band Plans and am trying to learn what they are and when they are needed. If I had entered the GMRS system manually, I would not have known it required band plan info.

Rebanding doesn't affect most P25 systems because the scanner gets the band plan from the control channel.
Did you let the scanner receive the system after you downloaded it from RR and before you looked at the band plan?

 

[nd5y]

Did you let the scanner receive the system after you downloaded it from RR and before you looked at the band plan?

That's what happened because there is no band plan in the db.

Garland, Mesquite, Rowlett, Sachse (GMRS) Trunking System, Various, Texas

Garland, Mesquite, Rowlett, Sachse (GMRS) Trunking System Profile

www.radioreference.com

 

[TexTAC]

Yes. I have been receiving GMRS very well for months. I only looked at the band plan on my SDS100 today because RR added two new sites. It was then I noticed that band plan info was populated on my scanner. Can I enter the 2 new sites without a band plan then?

 

[nd5y]

Can I enter the 2 new sites without a band plan then?

Yes. When the scanner hears the CC on the new frequencies it should get the band plan.

 

[TexTAC]

Thank you very much for your help. Much appreciated. As a test, I deleted the band plan info on the GMRS site and then let it scan the site with no band plan. Viola! The band plan is back in the SDS100 after receiving a signal!