Baofeng, using a uvr5 to transmit on murs or gmrs or frs frequencies?

[Akuriko]

Hello I have a question I am testing out some new frs and Murs radios for range tests and my big brother said oh I used a radio and its aUVR5 on Murs, frs and grsm and i used the push to talk button to test it in michigan, now I'm tempted to buy a uvr5 only if the truth is the chirp software can allow it to transmit on those frequencies.

if those frequencies are in the radio in the number storage banks my question is are you transmitting in murs, gsrm or frs frequencies or are you breaking the law by transmitting on the ham frequencies, I will not break the law, before I buy into the uvr5 I wanted to know.

What's legal and whats, not legal im also looking into Baofeng, Retevis murs, and grms standalone over what my brother calls a cheap combo.

 

[mmckenna]

There are two things you need to consider. What you do with this information is up to you….

Radio service licensing:
There are two types of radio services that apply here. Licensed radio services that require an FCC issued license to transmit, and license by rule, that do not require an FCC issued license, however there are certain requirements that must be met.

GMRS requires an FCC issued GMRS license to legally transmit.
Amateur radio (ham) requires an FCC issued amateur radio license to legally transmit.

If you do not have a license, you would technically be in violation of the rules for those radio services.

Equipment type certification:
The FCC issues type certification for different types of radios. Type certification ensures that the equipment is designed to work properly on specific radio services, and usually requires some safeguards to prevent 'undesired' operation.
Radios transmitting on the GMRS frequencies require Part 95E type certification.
Radios transmitting on the MURS frequencies require Part 95J type certification.
Radios transmitting on the FRS radio service require Part 95B type certification.
Radios transmitting on the amateur radio service do not require type certification on the transmitters.

If the radio you are using does not have the correct FCC type certification for the radio service you want to use, then that is technically a violation.

Some of the type certification rules negate other radio services. FRS requires a non-removable antenna.
MURS requires only MURS channels in the radio.
Amateur radios are not permitted to transmit anywhere outside the amateur bands.
So, a lot of these Cheap Chinese Radios cause issues because they can be made to do things they shouldn't. The Chinese don't care about FCC rules….

For GMRS, you also need to look at the Line C rules. There are specific GMRS channels that are not permitted that close to the Canadian border. It's an old rule, but it's still on the books.

It's important to understand all the FCC rules and how they apply to the radio services you are licensed for.

Now, to be honest:
The FCC doesn't fly around in helicopters with swat teams on board just waiting for someone to accidentally key up on the wrong frequency. Most of this stuff is a trust thing. The FCC trusts you'll do the right thing with your license. Some individuals can be trusted, some cannot.
Many will argue that the rules don't apply to them, or there are variances given. FCC rules disagree. People who use those arguments are just trying to justify either not knowing what the rules are, or not caring what the rules are.
A lot of these radios can be opened up to do things that are not technically legal. That doesn't mean the rules no longer apply. It just means the burden is on you to understand what you are doing and to not cause any issues.

Like I said above, what you do with this information is up to you. Most of us don't care what you do with your radio just as long as you don't cause issues for other users. Just keep in mind that the rules are there for good reasons, even if you may not fully understand them.

 

[Akuriko]

Thanks, I do care about rules and I don't want to break them, I was curious if it was downright legal, to buy a cheap combo to use it directly for murs or gsrm, however, the reason I'm testing the other band's murs and gsrm is for range test, not to break any laws, im skeptical at buying anything that will break the law, as i told my big brother we may do a lot of radio research for purchase choices but I trust you brothers and ssister of the radio reference to guide me without breaking any laws like my brother would, a downright rebel, lol

anyways I don't want to transmit is what I'm saying on a ham frequency if it's illegal and not on a murs or gsrm, i personally can go buy a stand-alone gsrm and murs without needing a combo. and before you say its not illegal to transmit on ham bands, im still working on my license to me it's illegal, so I do not want to break any laws.

 

[WRQS621]

For the money, Baofeng is a good value. Hence why they are the most popular radio ever.

 

[buddrousa]

You get what you pay for CHEAP CHINESE RADIO
The transmit pattern of these radios is like a SHOTGUN with a 2 inch barrel very wide and splatters every where.
As far as most popular KENWOOD YEASU ICOM all great HAM RADIOS for the last 40 plus years and several of those big 3 are still working after 40 plus years.

 

[jaspence]

I second buddrousa's comment. The CCR's are popular due to price and an occasional feature that may or may not work properly. I trust my Motorola HT600 (30 years old) more than a ccr.

 

[mmckenna]

The Baofengs and other Cheap Chinese Radios are "most popular ever" not because they are good, but because they are cheap. People that do not understand radios buy them because they are an easy entry level radio and easily available on Amazon or E-Bay. The masses on the internet assume they are the 'best'. That is easily disproven with the right test equipment.


If you have an extremely limited budget, then the Baofengs and other Cheap Chinese Radios may be the only option.
You do need to specifically pay attention to FCC type acceptance on these radios specific to the radio services you want to use. A lot of them do not have type acceptance on the transmitters, which makes them only legal on the amateur radio bands, or as a receiver only.

There are no "combo" radios that will legally work on all these radio services. Some on the internet may tell you there are, but the FCC rules say otherwise.

Rather than trying to buy one radio that will do everything, you'd do better spending your hard earned money on one radio service and getting higher quality equipment. That'll give you a better overall experience. Do your testing and figure out where you want to spend your budget. Then get a higher quality radio and the best antenna system you can afford. That'll give you reliable performance every time.

 

[WRQS621]

The Baofengs and other Cheap Chinese Radios are "most popular ever" not because they are good, but because they are cheap. People that do not understand radios buy them because they are an easy entry level radio and easily available on Amazon or E-Bay. The masses on the internet assume they are the 'best'. That is easily disproven with the right test equipment.


If you have an extremely limited budget, then the Baofengs and other Cheap Chinese Radios may be the only option.
You do need to specifically pay attention to FCC type acceptance on these radios specific to the radio services you want to use. A lot of them do not have type acceptance on the transmitters, which makes them only legal on the amateur radio bands, or as a receiver only.

There are no "combo" radios that will legally work on all these radio services. Some on the internet may tell you there are, but the FCC rules say otherwise.

Rather than trying to buy one radio that will do everything, you'd do better spending your hard earned money on one radio service and getting higher quality equipment. That'll give you a better overall experience. Do your testing and figure out where you want to spend your budget. Then get a higher quality radio and the best antenna system you can afford. That'll give you reliable performance every time.

 

[KK4JUG]

The Baofengs and other Cheap Chinese Radios are "most popular ever" not because they are good, but because they are cheap.

And, there's a difference in "cheap" and "inexpensive," particularly in this case.

I've said it before: Beofengs are like Bic lighters. When they quit working, you throw them away.

 

[HPTQRPM]

One thing to be aware of in your area is what is called "Line A", which is a boundary area between the US and Canada to reduce radio interference between the two countries.

Line A - The RadioReference Wiki

wiki.radioreference.com

I don't know exactly how it applies to various radio services, such Family Radio Service or General Mobile Radio Service. Because FRS is such low power, I don't see how it could interfere if you are just using a hand held radio.
There are members here at RR who can explain it, but be sure to tell them "Hey, I'm just a kid, so make easy to understand!"

 

[nd5y]

There is no longer any mention of Line A, B, C or D or "Canadian border" in Part 95.

Now all it says is:
§ 95.309 Coordination procedures and other restrictions for operation in certain locations.

The operator of a Personal Radio Service station may be required to coordinate operation in advance and/or may be subject to operating restrictions if the station is to be operated in certain locations, described in the following paragraphs in this section.

(b) Near a U.S. border or in an area that is or may be subject to an international treaty or agreement. Treaties and agreements may be viewed or downloaded from the FCC Web site: http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sand/agree/.


Low power hand held radios can cause interference as easily as anything else under the right conditions.

 

[ecps92]

There is no longer any mention of Line A, B, C or D or "Canadian border" in Part 95.

Now all it says is:
§ 95.309 Coordination procedures and other restrictions for operation in certain locations.

The operator of a Personal Radio Service station may be required to coordinate operation in advance and/or may be subject to operating restrictions if the station is to be operated in certain locations, described in the following paragraphs in this section.

(b) Near a U.S. border or in an area that is or may be subject to an international treaty or agreement. Treaties and agreements may be viewed or downloaded from the FCC Web site: http://www.fcc.gov/ib/sand/agree/.


Low power hand held radios can cause interference as easily as anything else under the right conditions.

Still shows up on my recent license as

Effective 2/16/99 the GMRS rules have been amended and you may operate on any of the primary or interstitial channels shown in section 95.1763. Exception: Licensees who operate North of Line A and East of Line C may not operate on channels 462.650 MHZ,467.650 MHZ, 462.700 MHZ and 467.700 MHZ unless your previous license authorized such operations.

But, any search of FCC rules, has nothing for Part 95, lawyers , ugh

 

[jeepsandradios]

Yup its on my license as well. Still Line A and Line C

 

[skywatcher307]

Now, to be honest:
The FCC doesn't fly around in helicopters with swat teams on board just waiting for someone to accidentally key up on the wrong frequency. Most of this stuff is a trust thing. The FCC trusts you'll do the right thing with your license. Some individuals can be trusted, some cannot.
Many will argue that the rules don't apply to them, or there are variances given. FCC rules disagree. People who use those arguments are just trying to justify either not knowing what the rules are, or not caring what the rules are.
A lot of these radios can be opened up to do things that are not technically legal. That doesn't mean the rules no longer apply. It just means the burden is on you to understand what you are doing and to not cause any issues.

Like I said above, what you do with this information is up to you. Most of us don't care what you do with your radio just as long as you don't cause issues for other users. Just keep in mind that the rules are there for good reasons, even if you may not fully understand them.

Oh, the ironies of the Jan. 6th insurrectionists... CCRs, never got busted for flagrant FCC rule violations using their baofengs on gov't-only freqs, etc, etc...

 

[buddrousa]

@skywatcher307
You have first hand information about this or is this just hearsay. I am sure Old Joe and his Big D Friends would like to get you to talk in Court.

 

[KK4JUG]

Oh, the ironies of the Jan. 6th insurrectionists... CCRs, never got busted for flagrant FCC rule violations using their baofengs on gov't-only freqs, etc, etc...

Putting someone's butt in jail is a lot more effective than confiscating their radio.

 

[prcguy]

Now, to be honest:
The FCC doesn't fly around in helicopters with swat teams on board just waiting for someone to accidentally key up on the wrong frequency. Most of this stuff is a trust thing. The FCC trusts you'll do the right thing with your license.

The FCC does occasionally fly around in helicopters. Years ago an engineer at our Florida facility noticed a helicopter hovering above a satellite uplink antenna for a long time then the FCC knocked on the door later that day and we found our uplink had been accidently jamming out other satellite services. The FCC had contacted our Florida facility prior to the visit asking if there were any uplinks pointed at a particular satellite and the engineer said yes but all signals to the uplink were patched out, meaning there was no RF drive to the system.

Problem with that was an upconverter further up the chain had failed and was putting out a spurious signal that lit up the high power amp and there ya go. We were lucky not to have been fined big time or sued by the company that lost many hours of satellite service. So the FCC does use helicopters when needed. I was disappointed to hear they did not repel down ropes from the helicopter, probably to old for that.

 

[mmckenna]

So the FCC does use helicopters when needed. I was disappointed to hear they did not repel down ropes from the helicopter, probably to old for that.

I'd pay to see that.

 

[AK9R]

For some reason, folks interpret a lack of enforcement as the government's tacit statement that the rules no longer matter. Yes, we've seen it happen time and time again. But, it doesn't erase the fact that as long as the rules are on the books, operating in a manner non-compliant with the rules is still a violation of those rules subject to whatever penalties apply.

Whether or not you operate in compliance with the rules is up to you. Whether or not another person operates in compliance with the rules is up to that person. Whether or not the government enforces the rules they make is up to that government.

The subject of this thread is whether or not certain radios are compliant with the rules and whether or not transmitting with certain radios in certain radio services is compliant with the rules. I think that question was adequately answered in message #2 in this thread. Let's leave the politics out of the conversation.