Baofeng UV5R v2 squelch issues

[goldmanns]

I am a ski patroller working several local hills, and bought abovementioned radio for patrol use. I have noticed several issues that all seem to be related to squelch handling. One hill does not use receive squelch tones, other does. All hills here have repeaters, and operate in narrowband, at frequencies around 150Mhz

1. No rx squelch tone causes radio to either completely/partially miss incoming transmission. Other hill with repeater sending squelch tone does not seem to have this issue
2. No rx tone: will sometimes turn on even w/o transmission and produce loud static
3. Both rx & no rx tones: it will turn on about 0.5 secs later than "official" patrol radios, which can sometimes cause to miss beginning of transmission
4. On few occasions radio stopped transmitting until I turned it off & on
5. End of incoming transmission invariably causes loud "brap" which can be hard on ears (especially when using earphone)

I realize I may be asking too much from 35$ radio, especially considering cold conditions I am using it in (I do use external waterproof mic). I also have upgraded the antenna which did not seem to make any difference.

Are there any settings I can play around with, or the radio is just not cut out for it? If so, what budget models would be?

Advice appreciated!
Peter

 

[KC9HI]

I am a ski patroller working several local hills, and bought abovementioned radio for patrol use. I have noticed several issues that all seem to be related to squelch handling. One hill does not use receive squelch tones, other does. All hills here have repeaters, and operate in narrowband, at frequencies around 150Mhz

1. No rx squelch tone causes radio to either completely/partially miss incoming transmission. Other hill with repeater sending squelch tone does not seem to have this issue
2. No rx tone: will sometimes turn on even w/o transmission and produce loud static
3. Both rx & no rx tones: it will turn on about 0.5 secs later than "official" patrol radios, which can sometimes cause to miss beginning of transmission
4. On few occasions radio stopped transmitting until I turned it off & on
5. End of incoming transmission invariably causes loud "brap" which can be hard on ears (especially when using earphone)

I realize I may be asking too much from 35$ radio, especially considering cold conditions I am using it in (I do use external waterproof mic). I also have upgraded the antenna which did not seem to make any difference.

Are there any settings I can play around with, or the radio is just not cut out for it? If so, what budget models would be?

Advice appreciated!
Peter

Both 1 and 3 are likely to be caused by the battery SAVE feature. See what happens after you set SAVE to OFF.

2 is easily fixed by adjusting the Squelch Levels

5 is a squelch tail. It is a normal part of FM communications. You might mess around with menus 35, 36 and 37 to see if that helps.

Jim KC9HI

 

[goldmanns]

Battery save is off. Squelch is set to 1. I tried playing around with STE but nothing seems to make a difference. Local patrol radios do not have such a loud tail...

 

[Stealthguy05]

Baofeng radios do not decode reverse burst tones on TPL. Thus causing the squelch crash you are hearing. DPL is another story. 95% of transmissions with DPL mute before the carrier drops.

 

[nd5y]

In CTCSS encode mode, Baofeng radios send a 55 Hz tone instead of reverse burst phase shift. That makes them incompatible with Motorola, Kenwood and other reverse burst types.

Menu 35 STE disables the 55 Hz tone and also disables the DCS 134.4 Hz turnoff code.
The receiver mutes whenever it receives a 55Hz tone. It can also false at times and mute for apparently no reason. You can't disable this function.

Menu 36 RP-STE keeps the receiver muted briefly when you unkey.
Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decode briefly when you unkey.
Neither of the above are useful functions and they have absolutely no effect on the squelch crash noise or decoding time.

I have two different Baofeng models and have at times noticed slow CTCSS decoding. There is probably nothing the OP can do about it except not use a receive CTCSS tone.

 

[muchomorek]

Baofeng has a squelch menu with settings 0-9, 0=off and 1-9 low - high
all settings 1-9 produce the same result its a know issue with that radio.

 

[Hans13]

Baofeng has a squelch menu with settings 0-9, 0=off and 1-9 low - high
all settings 1-9 produce the same result its a know issue with that radio.

There is a fix in Chirp for some models. The factory settings are useless so it's wise to set them to something more useful. That's why KC9HI posted this link in a previous reply: UV5R/UV82 Squelch Levels - Miklor

 

[MTS2000des]

I realize I may be asking too much from 35$ radio, especially considering cold conditions I am using it in (I do use external waterproof mic).

You get what you pay for. ChiComm Walkie talkie on chip radios are great for hobbyists and hams, but your issues are well documented with these low cost disposable portables.

Radios like the Icom IC-F1000 series are more expensive, but you get what you pay for: a quality radio that is IP67 rated, are ruggedly built and will survive the cold with no issues, and have superior RX and TX specifications especially in the areas of intermod rejection, and tone/DCS decode work properly.

Spend the money and buy some quality radios and you will thank yourself for it.
F1000 / F2000 Series VHF and UHF Transceiver - Features - Icom America

 

[goldmanns]

In CTCSS encode mode, Baofeng radios send a 55 Hz tone instead of reverse burst phase shift. That makes them incompatible with Motorola, Kenwood and other reverse burst types.

Menu 35 STE disables the 55 Hz tone and also disables the DCS 134.4 Hz turnoff code.
The receiver mutes whenever it receives a 55Hz tone. It can also false at times and mute for apparently no reason. You can't disable this function.

Menu 36 RP-STE keeps the receiver muted briefly when you unkey.
Menu 37 RPT-RL disables CTCSS or DCS decode briefly when you unkey.
Neither of the above are useful functions and they have absolutely no effect on the squelch crash noise or decoding time.

I have two different Baofeng models and have at times noticed slow CTCSS decoding. There is probably nothing the OP can do about it except not use a receive CTCSS tone.

In a nutshell, there seems to be nothing I can do about loud squelch tail. Fine, I can live with that.

Slow decoding is an issue, however. Not using CTCSS receive tones is even worse, however, as sometimes entire transmissions are missed, plus it will turn on sporadically even when nobody is transmitting.

 

[goldmanns]

You get what you pay for. ChiComm Walkie talkie on chip radios are great for hobbyists and hams, but your issues are well documented with these low cost disposable portables.

Radios like the Icom IC-F1000 series are more expensive, but you get what you pay for: a quality radio that is IP67 rated, are ruggedly built and will survive the cold with no issues, and have superior RX and TX specifications especially in the areas of intermod rejection, and tone/DCS decode work properly.

Spend the money and buy some quality radios and you will thank yourself for it.
F1000 / F2000 Series VHF and UHF Transceiver - Features - Icom America

This is what I suspected. However I cannot justify purchasing 300$ radio for volunteer work where I already buy my own jacket and first aid supplies. Is there a middle ground - a sub 100$ radio that will not suffer from abovementioned issues?

 

[Stealthguy05]

You could purchase a used MTS2000.

 

[MTS2000des]

This is what I suspected. However I cannot justify purchasing 300$ radio for volunteer work where I already buy my own jacket and first aid supplies. Is there a middle ground - a sub 100$ radio that will not suffer from abovementioned issues?

Shop around, the Icom is just one example. They can be had for less than $200. There are other portables such as Kenwood TK-2402 that are in the same price range. The Vertex Standard VX-231 sells for $160-200 new and is also comparable in features, size and performance, and has a 3 year warranty. I am sure there are others, but these are the ones that come to mind.

You have to look at it this way, your radio is an important piece of equipment that you rely on for your safety and the safety of those who call upon you. Reliable quality equipment costs money. You can always go the used route, used versions of those radios sell for around 1/2 to 2/3 the price of new depending on who is selling. I always recommend buying from a dealer who has bench tested the radios and offers a warranty.

IMO, Chinese radios are great for hobby or recreational use but they are not serious tools. As you have found out, you get little to no support when there are problems.

You could purchase a used MTS2000.

The problem with the MTS2000 is they are long out of production, an aging and bulky model, not many shops will service or even program them. These radios can be problematic especially if they are abused and have their own set of problems (display failures, microphonics, bad PA's)- all problems that crop up for 10-15 year old radios. If the firmware is out of date, they may not do all narrowband channel steps. Not too many dealers even have refresh keys for these radios, and ordering one will exceed the cost of the radios.

The O/P would be better off buying a new radio from one of the major manufacturers like Kenwood, Icom or Vertex Standard that has a warranty and is supported by a local dealer and isn't the size of a huge brick either.

 

[rapidcharger]

I am a ski patroller working several local hills,

I just did a little googling around to learn more about volunteer ski patrols. It has something that always sounded interesting to me.

I came across this website for a 501 c3 volunteer ski patrol association that outlines the expected costs for providing your own transceiver as well as other gear.
Join the Alpental Volunteer Ski Patrol
If you scroll down to the "What does it cost?" section, it places the cost of a transceiver in the $100 to $300 range. While that won't buy you a new public safety grade radio, it will buy you a part 90 certified (federal regulations) radio for 5 watt NFM voice transmissions, which the UV5R is NOT.‡ It's a good place to start.

The Vertex-Standard vx-231 which was mentioned in a previous reply offers a lot of the basic features you would find in a public safety radio but in a budget radio price range. It also has squelch that is adjustable by a knob, which is a pretty nice thing to be able to do in the mountains when you may have a weak, but very important signal. I have purchased radios before from this reputable dealer that sells that model with a li-on battery (which may not actually be best suited for cold weather), rapid charger and 3yr factory warrranty for $199. If you talk to the owner (his name is Jim) or his son, and tell him you are with a volunteer ski patrol, they may come down on the price. I am not affiliated with them, just a hunch though.

Another, perhaps better option is the ICOM IC-F3001 which that same dealer is selling for $189. That one comes with a higher capacity niMH battery and a lot of the same features as the Vertex mentioned above but it also has much louder 800mW audio so that you can keep it in a pouch or under a jacket but still have loud piercing audio so you can better hear calls.
And it is the same model radio used by the gold miner personalities in the Discovery Channel hit series Gold Rush. If it is rugged enough for them, it might be up for the task.
If you have a problem with your Icom, icom is very easy to get on the phone and their authorized repair centers are the best I've ever used.

Again, you get what you pay for and it is hard to expect a public safety grade radio with dealer support and warranty service for $35. But unfortunately that is a lesson many learn the hard way.

Anyway, there may be some radios that are closer to that $100 mark but you will be sacrificing features and performance that is very much worth an extra $80 or $90 or so. If you're going to be using this for life and safety purposes in an environment where it's important that the radio works, at least go with something in the class of the above radios at the very least. Anything less is more so designed for warehouse use, schools and things like that.

‡ UV5R part 90 certification is erroneous and does not include narrowband voice for 5 watts

 

[cskeller07]

Baofeng has a squelch menu with settings 0-9, 0=off and 1-9 low - high
all settings 1-9 produce the same result its a know issue with that radio.

Is this an issue on the V2 as well?

 

[KC9HI]

Is this an issue on the V2 as well?

Yes. For some reason, Baofeng sets the threshold difference from one squelch setting to the next as small as it can possibly be without being the same (1 unit). So the operational difference between setting 1 and setting is as small as it can be. So in real world testing it is very hard to tell the difference between the 9 squelch settings and many just consider the choices as 0 = squelch off and 1 through 9 = squelch on.

CHIRP allows you to increase the difference between each setting so a 1 is truly a minimal squelch and 9 can practically block even very strong signals. This is definitely something you cannot do the way it shipped from the factory.

My UV-82 went from unusable at work on the company repeater frequency to on par with the company Motorola and Kenwood radios and making the squelch adjustments.

Just backup the original factory settings just in case you want to return to them. (you won't, LOL)

Jim KC9HI

 

[cskeller07]

Yes. For some reason, Baofeng sets the threshold difference from one squelch setting to the next as small as it can possibly be without being the same (1 unit). So the operational difference between setting 1 and setting is as small as it can be. So in real world testing it is very hard to tell the difference between the 9 squelch settings and many just consider the choices as 0 = squelch off and 1 through 9 = squelch on.

CHIRP allows you to increase the difference between each setting so a 1 is truly a minimal squelch and 9 can practically block even very strong signals. This is definitely something you cannot do the way it shipped from the factory.

My UV-82 went from unusable at work on the company repeater frequency to on par with the company Motorola and Kenwood radios and making the squelch adjustments.

Just backup the original factory settings just in case you want to return to them. (you won't, LOL)

Jim KC9HI

Unless i'm missing something... I don't have that option in chirp under the settings for my radio. That entire settings tab is not showing up

 

[nd5y]

What version of chirp are you using? Only the daily builds in the last month have the ability to change the squelch levels.

 

[cskeller07]

What version of chirp are you using? Only the daily builds in the last month have the ability to change the squelch levels.

0.4.1

 

[cskeller07]

What version of chirp are you using? Only the daily builds in the last month have the ability to change the squelch levels.

Is there a stable daily build you recommend? Or just the most recent?

 

[goldmanns]

The O/P would be better off buying a new radio from one of the major manufacturers like Kenwood, Icom or Vertex Standard that has a warranty and is supported by a local dealer and isn't the size of a huge brick either.

While I completely agree the funds just dont allow me to do that. Patrol typically provides radio to patrollers, but some have really bad battery, some are way too quiet, and sometimes there are not enough units for everybody. This is why I wanted my own radio without spending arm & leg for it. I guess I'll just keep an eye out for used ones on fleabay, and until then use patrol radio while keeping Baofeng as a backup.

Thanks!
Peter