BCD436HP: Bc436HP Id search = scan on every service type

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SCPD

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If you have ID search on and the service type is a service type that is set to OFF,it will be included in scan anyway.
A fix would be to set an unknown talkgroup to say Custom 1,until that is set by the user .

to fix as is you turn off ID search on the system you dont want to scan.
 

jonwienke

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That's a feature, not a bug. Most people would prefer to hear traffic on an unknown talkgroup so its traffic type can be identified and posted to the database for the benefit of everyone else.
 

SCPD

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bug

Then why have service types at all? Because if I have 99 systems with ID search on then I'll hear every one.A better way to deal with it would be to default the ID search to a custom service type 1 or add a new service type for this.
Then if you wanted that, the people who want that feature can turn on custom 1 and the people that want service types to work,would be able to enjoy the service types with Id search om .Doesnt that make alot more sense?
So in the meantime I'm stuck with ID search off and service types is a boat anchor with it on ,how sad.
How did I discover this? The other night I wanted to hear Marine band only so Im like hey this thing will do that with service types ,how cool I thought,then I realized its scanning Montclair fd and PSEG electric,I thought what the heck is wrong here.I had to look into this and if I was inexperienced I would have never thought to shut off Id search.This is supposed to be easy!
 

jonwienke

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Then why have service types at all? Because if I have 99 systems with ID search on then I'll hear every one.
No you won't, because most of the stuff is identified and categorized. Once a new talkgroup is identified, categorized, and added to the database, IT IS NO LONGER UNKNOWN, and then follows the normal Service Type filtering.

What you're complaining about makes no logical sense whatsoever. The whole point of searching is to discover stuff that isn't in the database--stuff you won't know what it is. If you don't want search mode to find unknown stuff and play it for you, then don't use search mode. Altering search mode so it doesn't let you know when it finds something totally defeats its whole reason for existing.
 

SCPD

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New takgroup (unknown)

No you won't, because most of the stuff is identified and categorized. Once a new talkgroup is identified, categorized, and added to the database, IT IS NO LONGER UNKNOWN, and then follows the normal Service Type filtering.

What you're complaining about makes no logical sense whatsoever. The whole point of searching is to discover stuff that isn't in the database--stuff you won't know what it is. If you don't want search mode to find unknown stuff and play it for you, then don't use search mode. Altering search mode so it doesn't let you know when it finds something totally defeats its whole reason for existing.

You didnt read my post at all.
If you do it the way I said ,make unknown talkgroups go to a new service type like custom 1 it does the same thing anyway.
Lets say the new talkgroup's name is UNKNOWN TALKGROUPS,wouldnt that make more sense?
I like to find new talkgroups too but I dont want to wait for them to be categorized to be able to use my service types in the meantime.
If you added UNKNOWN TALKGROUPS or just pushed the unknown talkgroups to say custom 1 then guess what? you would be able to turn the now forced feature (you say) on and off.
Get it?
 

jonwienke

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Nope. Why have searching turned on if you don't want to hear the search results? If you don't want to hear search results, don't turn on searching in the first place.

What you're proposing is an unnecessary and confusing extra step that people who have search turned on will have to go through to actually hear search results. If your proposal was implemented, there would be a flood of posts about "I have search turned on, why isn't my scanner finding new talkgroups?" Your proposal is pointless, adds no extra value, makes operating the scanner more complex rather than simpler, and will result in added user confusion.

And your premise about search mode "on" disabling service type filtering for known traffic is wrong, anyway. I have search mode On in all my favorite lists, and service type filtering works just fine.
 

SCPD

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Service type unknown

Nope. Why have searching turned on if you don't want to hear the search results? If you don't want to hear search results, don't turn on searching in the first place.

What you're proposing is an unnecessary and confusing extra step that people who have search turned on will have to go through to actually hear search results. If your proposal was implemented, there would be a flood of posts about "I have search turned on, why isn't my scanner finding new talkgroups?" Your proposal is pointless, adds no extra value, makes operating the scanner more complex rather than simpler, and will result in added user confusion.

And your premise about search mode "on" disabling service type filtering for known traffic is wrong, anyway. I have search mode On in all my favorite lists, and service type filtering works just fine.


So you have that service type on as default.
Theres also the instruction manual.
The radio has alot of more complex things to it than this.
You wouldnt want another re-assignable service type?I dont get it.
Well youre not the last word of Uniden and neither am I ,I hope they implement this anyway,so then service types will be useful to both parties.
The current way only works for one party.
 

KE4ZNR

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Considering this is not a bug I am gonna move it to the Tavern.
Marshall KE4ZNR
 

jonwienke

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So you have that service type on as default.
That makes no sense. Everything in my favorite lists is tagged with its respective service type. If I want to listen to police, but not fire or EMS, I shut off eveything but the law enforcement service types,(law dispatch, law talk, etc) and I just hear police stuff, the same as if I was monitoring the main database. This is true whether I have search on or off.

The only difference is that if I have search on, I will hear talkgroups not listed in the favorite list on systems in the list, regardless of service type settings. Until they are categorized and added to the database. At which point they are subject to service type filtering just like everything else.

Your statement "If you have ID search on and the service type is a service type that is set to OFF,it will be included in scan anyway" is plain wrong.
 

SCPD

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Challenge Post your Favorites List!

That makes no sense. Everything in my favorite lists is tagged with its respective service type. If I want to listen to police, but not fire or EMS, I shut off eveything but the law enforcement service types,(law dispatch, law talk, etc) and I just hear police stuff, the same as if I was monitoring the main database. This is true whether I have search on or off.

The only difference is that if I have search on, I will hear talkgroups not listed in the favorite list on systems in the list, regardless of service type settings. Until they are categorized and added to the database. At which point they are subject to service type filtering just like everything else.

Your statement "If you have ID search on and the service type is a service type that is set to OFF,it will be included in scan anyway" is plain wrong.
This is why we have no firmware updates or features,you're all ok with mediocre.
Ok you post all your favorite lists including fire departments and all,I'll turn on ID search and want to scan only one service type and we'll see if it works.Hows that for a challenge?
See if I'm stupid and if I'm wrong...... Waiting for your file! Post away!
I'll include a video of my findings....
And if you have a camera or phone,oh wait everyone does,then you show me what happens on your end.

Why listen to Fire when Fire is off in service types?!!! I mean seriously. If I leave ID search on in a fire group and the service type is OFF why the heck should I be scanning any fire departments?????????!!!

I want to scan Marine and Marine only. Only thing that should be playing is Marine and Coast Guard and any talkgroup thats related in any system.


An unknown or uncategorized talkgroup should be "left out" or sent to a place where it can be identified and left out of current scanning.
And if it is desired to be scanned,then it could have been with a UNKNOWN talkgroup and service type. Whats so hard about that?
 
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jonwienke

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An unknown or uncategorized talkgroup should be "left out" or sent to a place where it can be identified and left out of current scanning.
Not if you turned search on specifically to find unlisted talkgroups. If you don't want to hear uncategorized stuff, DON'T TURN SEARCH ON.

And if it is desired to be scanned,then it could have been with a UNKNOWN talkgroup and service type. Whats so hard about that?
Because then you have to configure 2 separate settings in 2 different menus to find and hear new/undocumented talkgroups. As opposed to 1 setting in 1 menu in the current configuration...
 

jonwienke

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One other thing: Systems typically have talkgroups with a variety of Service Types. For example, the SIRN system in WV is used by EMS, fire, city, county, and state police, the WV Air National Guard, the local schools (security and bus dispatch), and some miscellaneous other things. So with search off, SIRN gets scanned if I have any fire, EMS, law enforcement, or military service type enabled

But with search on, SIRN gets scanned regardless of what service types I have enabled, because the scanner doesn't make any assumptions about what service type unknown talkgroups might eventually be tagged with. I told it to search, and so it searches.

BUT...

regardless of what traffic may be active on SIRN while searching, I only hear traffic that meets one of two criteria:

1: It has a Service Type that I have enabled in the scanner menu.
2: It is unknown--the scanner doesn't know what Service Type the talkgroup belongs to.

First Energy, the local electric company, also has a local P25 system. For obvious reasons, all of the documented talkgroups are tagged with the "Utility" service type. But if I turn Search on for that system, it still gets scanned, when I have "Utility" disabled in the Service Types menu. Why? because the scanner doesn't assume that unknown stuff it might find on that system would necessarily be Service Type "Utility". It could be private security patrolling substations or transmission lines to prevent terrorist attacks. Or any number of other things that wouldn't fall within the "Utility" service type.

So if I have only the Railroad service type enabled, the First Energy system still gets scanned, but I don't hear any traffic from it, because there are no unknown talkgroups, and none of its talkgroups are type Railroad. If I don't want to waste scanner time looking for new stuff on the First Energy system, I have 2 options:

1: Turn off Search for that system.
2: Place an Avoid on the system.

I'll bet the fact that search-enabled trunked systems are being searched, even if they don't contain known talkgroups matching enabled Service Types, is what is confusing you. If you have video of traffic from a known talkgroup being played despite its Service Type being disabled, I'd like to see it.
 

SCPD

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One other thing: Systems typically have talkgroups with a variety of Service Types. For example, the SIRN system in WV is used by EMS, fire, city, county, and state police, the WV Air National Guard, the local schools (security and bus dispatch), and some miscellaneous other things. So with search off, SIRN gets scanned if I have any fire, EMS, law enforcement, or military service type enabled

But with search on, SIRN gets scanned regardless of what service types I have enabled, because the scanner doesn't make any assumptions about what service type unknown talkgroups might eventually be tagged with. I told it to search, and so it searches.

BUT...

regardless of what traffic may be active on SIRN while searching, I only hear traffic that meets one of two criteria:

1: It has a Service Type that I have enabled in the scanner menu.
2: It is unknown--the scanner doesn't know what Service Type the talkgroup belongs to.

First Energy, the local electric company, also has a local P25 system. For obvious reasons, all of the documented talkgroups are tagged with the "Utility" service type. But if I turn Search on for that system, it still gets scanned, when I have "Utility" disabled in the Service Types menu. Why? because the scanner doesn't assume that unknown stuff it might find on that system would necessarily be Service Type "Utility". It could be private security patrolling substations or transmission lines to prevent terrorist attacks. Or any number of other things that wouldn't fall within the "Utility" service type.

So if I have only the Railroad service type enabled, the First Energy system still gets scanned, but I don't hear any traffic from it, because there are no unknown talkgroups, and none of its talkgroups are type Railroad. If I don't want to waste scanner time looking for new stuff on the First Energy system, I have 2 options:

1: Turn off Search for that system.
2: Place an Avoid on the system.

I'll bet the fact that search-enabled trunked systems are being searched, even if they don't contain known talkgroups matching enabled Service Types, is what is confusing you. If you have video of traffic from a known talkgroup being played despite its Service Type being disabled, I'd like to see it.

I know how it works at the present time,this turning things on an off doesnt appease me.So I guess its leave ID search off.
With it off everything as far as service types works decent.
Nothing is perfect,it was just an Idea to be able to leave ID search on and be able to scan one service type.
All the explaining doesnt fix a bug. The thing screws up with ID search on.
Still think my GRE 800 picks up better....
The feature works exactly as decribed on the GRE.
I do dig the Priority scan and close call though on the 436Hp.
 

jonwienke

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INothing is perfect,it was just an Idea to be able to leave ID search on and be able to scan one service type.
All the explaining doesnt fix a bug. The thing screws up with ID search on.
As I explained, it doesn't "screw up", You can't possibly know what Service Type an unknown talkgroup will fall under until you listen to it, so expecting the scanner to simultaneously "search for new talkgroups" and "only scan one service type" is a logical contradiction. You can either do one or the other, but not both. Adding an "Unknown" Service Type won't change that logical impossibility.
 

SCPD

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Like I said

As I explained, it doesn't "screw up", You can't possibly know what Service Type an unknown talkgroup will fall under until you listen to it, so expecting the scanner to simultaneously "search for new talkgroups" and "only scan one service type" is a logical contradiction. You can either do one or the other, but not both. Adding an "Unknown" Service Type won't change that logical impossibility.


If a stored unknown and untagged talkgroup balls up a function ,thats a bug to me,maybe not to you.This is going nowheres,you never sent me the file so I can show you what i mean,so lets call it a day.You like it ,I dont.Done.
Difference of opinion is all.Have a wonderful weekend everyone.I just put my rh77 on and its pulling in alot more stuff!
 

jonwienke

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If a stored unknown and untagged talkgroup balls up a function ,thats a bug to me,maybe not to you.
Telling the scanner to go through the time and effort is search for unknown talkgroups and then NOT display the results of the search or play the discovered traffic would be a bug.

And you haven't bothered to show an example of your scanner actually playing audio of a known service type you deselected.
 

UPMan

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If a stored unknown and untagged talkgroup
By definition, if it is stored, it is known and tagged. If it is unstored/unknown, then the scanner has no way to know what tag would apply to it. The tagging comes from the scanners database, not the control channel data stream (that data stream only identifies the TGID). If I understand your issue correctly, then what you are expecting it to is simply impossible.
 

SCPD

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so?

By definition, if it is stored, it is known and tagged. If it is unstored/unknown, then the scanner has no way to know what tag would apply to it. The tagging comes from the scanners database, not the control channel data stream (that data stream only identifies the TGID). If I understand your issue correctly, then what you are expecting it to is simply impossible.
Right, it doesnt know now,but if the firmware were changed......

So it wouldnt be possible to make unknown talkgroups get pushed into
a custom service type ?

Unknown talkgroup any system > to custom 1 ?

This way when you are scanning and have custom 1 off ,it wouldnt be scanned?


OR push all the unknown things to Quicksave group?







Two other questions..maybe related.
Is the uniden firmware open source?
is there a service mode for 436HP on the scanner?
 

jonwienke

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No, a firmware change on the scanner will not change the way the system you listen to works.

What you're asking for is stupid. It makes far more sense to turn search OFF, then have search ON and then not display/play traffic the search finds.

Unknown talkgroups are already listed as Unknown when they are found.
 
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