BC785D - Programming & Talkgroups???

[WD4CQ]

:? Any help or comments? I am a newbie :shock: to trunktracking and I have a new Bearcat Uniden BC785D Scanner (No digital card since I've been told we'll not have digital until 6 months or more) and ARC250Pro v1.10 Software and I am trying learn how to use my new scanner and "confirm" the "correct" talkgroups that I have been logging on my local Police Dept. 800Mhz Motorola Type II Smartnet System. My city police Dept. uses the following freqs below and I have found lots of Talkgroup ID's so far, about 70 or more and still going!!!!

However I am new to trunking and "unsure" :shock: if these are correct? Sounds like way too many!! Many of them are 33904, 33840, 33936....... 34064, 34192, 34976..... 38000, 38112, 38304....39024, 39865, 43296......then more.....57600, 57616, 57635.....731381, 748355, 748356.

I get our local police dept. (some ID's could be some other depts inside the unit, but most seem to be mainly our police) on most all the 3XXXX and 4XXXX ID's. I have logged ID's from 31072 -to- 748356. With the 7XXXXX being unit to unit (I-Call) Is this normal "all" these ID's?

I did note that the main police dispatch "always" comes up on 33904. I'm having a hard time identifing the other ID's. It seems sometimes I'll get a 33872 who is unit 175, and then the same 33872 might call in as unit 36 a few minutes later (of course could be I hearing incorrectly) but dispatch is "always" 33904. All the 57XXX ID's are some sort of data bursts, I noted the ID's for them and locked them out. I was unsure if our system was type I, but I researched the net and found it was a Motorola Type II Smartnet System. Boy! I am sure getting alot of Talkgroup ID's :shock: and they are not city water or utilities, the ones I have in the 3XXXX and 4XXXX talkgroups appear to be Police. Is this normal and same for others as well? :? Please forgive all the questions :shock: I am new to trunk track scanning and this is the reason I delayed buying one for so long. Thanks for any replies!!

I'm thinking I need a "HOW TO BOOK FOR DUMMIES" on BC785D Programming!!

City of New Bern, NC

856.2625 856.7375 857.2625 857.7375 858.2625
858.7375 859.2625 859.7375 860.2625 860.7375
860.9875

also added 853.4875 found here on the RadioReference.com database.

~

 

[fmon]

Welcome to the board dgarris, it appears you are catching on to trunking fairly well.

First, print the pdf doc, which came with your ARC250 program. This will help understand how trunking works.

Motorola talkgroup ID's start at 00016 and run through 65365 and are normally spaced at 32 bits, but could be at 16 bits. If your police dispatch is 33904, its likely the next ID is 33936 and the next would be 33968 then 34000 etc. Note that each are 32 bits higher. PD will likely have at least 16 talkgroups. FD may also start with the lowest TG as Dispatch and run up similar to PD, though they may have more ID's than PD. BTW, you are correct about 7xxxxx, they are I-Call.

To organize these ID's, open the TRUNK>ID window in ARC and enter them by agency in 1-1 through 1-10 (or more if neccessary) then in the same window—upper right—click on Edit ScanList Tags and name each list. Also, if you have ARC PRO you will be able to log new ID's in the remote mode.

These may be digital,

All the 57XXX ID's are some sort of data bursts, I noted the ID's for them and locked them out

you may need the card.

The attached doc will also help for manual programming where needed.

When you have significant data (it appears you may have a lot already) please submit to RR Database, Lindsay's bunch and the rest of us will make perpetual use of your efforts.

 

[WD4CQ]

Well, I just learned today (for sure - no guessing) that we have a Motorola :shock: "Type I" Smartnet Truncking system here for my city and NOT type II. I've confirmed this with folks who KNOW!! :wink: So now all the reading and logging of ID's on type II is really no good to me, I need to go back and read, read, read :shock: on type I systems. I have the Fleet info of 400 and sub-fleets of 1-6 "Whatever this means?" I have so much to learn!! :? Any help for a Newbie??

 

[fmon]

I took 4 of your talkgroups from your first posting above.
ID 31072 is in block 2 of a Type I system and converts to 300-12 in size code S4, 200-14 in size code S12 and 312-02 in size code S8.

These three ID's are in block 4 of a Type I system and all three are 400-02 in size code S4, but the first two are 402-00 in size code S8 and the last is 402-02. In size code S12 all three are 400-01.
33872
33904
34064
Only using size code 5 or 6 will all three be different, i.e. S5= 408-03, 408-02 and 410-00. S6= 404-03, 404-02 and 405-00.

I'm more convinced than you that this is a type II or at least a IIi system, but keep working and let us know what you find.

 

[WD4CQ]

My biggest problem is I don't understand this trunking stuff. I may be doing or setting something wrong! Here are a few of the ID's I logged.....

(note I found many many many more......) (almost too many which got me thinking...what's up?) :?:

BTW, Thanks for your reply. I read your post above and did not understand any of it. :shock: I am new to trunk-track scanning. I called a couple of techs who work on the Motorola radios in our city and they are very familiar with our system.... @@@unless they are giving false information :? to keep the info secure... I was told by them we are using a Type 1 system. (told this by 2 guys) and We will be going Digital sometime next year. But for now when I set up my scanner in bank one, and programmed all my freq's above for the city trunking 856.2625, 857.2625, etc..... then I did a search ID by monitering the control channel (still learning to do this part) with the bank set up as type II, I-call turned on, no delay, and I got some of these ID's below. I later used a program called "ID Tracker" and logged many many more ID's I had never seen. I will not include those here but below is my first list, this is the one list I got while monitoring the control channel, all ID's below that started with a 57600 were bursts of control data that I locked out of my Scan ID list later. NOTE: the computer software program added the 0 in front of every number below, on my radio display I saw no first digit as a 0.

ID's captured while programed as type II
033803
033808
033824
033830
033832
033833
033840
033872
033875
033878
033880
033888
033900
033904
033907
033910
033920
033934
033935
033936
033941
033944
033952
033957
033969
034016
034035
034048
034064
034160
034176
034192
034208
034224
034928
034944
034976
035232
037216
037344
037904
037936
038000
038032
038034
038048
038112
038160
038256
038272
038288
038304
039024
039865
043296
043665
043840
057600
057610
057613
057616
057620
057632
057635
057648
057653
057662
057664
057666
057680
057776
057788
057791
057792
057793
057794
057796
057800
057801
057802
748355
748356


Now with the scanner setup as type 1, I am getting the following ID's:
But I do NOT know what Preset Plan to set it to, or fleet map stuff. If this means anything I was told our police dept has a Fleet of 400 (something about a size code M = 400) and something about a subfleet or 1 thru 6. whatever that means to mean? They said the fleet of 700 would be the data (noise) and yep! all 700-0 and 700-1 ID's that have shown up so far have been bursts of data noise which I locked out. I seem to get all police traffic on like 400-4 and 400-5 series of numbers. the computer shows 400-04 and 400-05 but on the radio it is 400-4 and 400-5, etc.... I seem to see some pattern here with 400 stuff being police and 500 stuff being non-police and 700 stuff being data. Am I on the right track???

I'd read about fleet, sub fleet, mapping, but the book that comes with the scanner needs to be "burned" and written much much better! I've only been able to truely understand things in the book AFTER someone explains it to me using different wording than that of the book. I've heard many compliants about that book! So where do I learn? I know, I know... Here! But I want to learn it all now so I can begin to Alpha Tag and organize my channels and enjoy the scanner. Right now I am beating my head against the wall trying to understand what the book is trying to tell me when I begin to program it. I can use my ARC250Pro v1.10 software, I have the E-scanner too but not used it. And I can do it manually but heard the software is the way to go. I just want to do 3) things..... 1) Be sure I know what system I am using here Type I or II? 2) Understand what that is so it all makes sense and I'll have some understanding as to what I am doing when I begin to program 3) Program, be able to use software and/or have understanding to do manually if desired and AlphaTag my ID's so I can enjoy it. If I'm not making much sense it's because I need sleep. I keep reading over and over (I heard one guy say he read the book 50 times and still didn't understand it) I can relate! So here is what I got with the BC785D setup as Motorola type I. I get ID's like 400-05 and 400-04 see list below;

ID's captured while programed as type I

Note: in line below the ID is 400-05
68747269,01,400-05,"Unidentified",15:49:52,29

68747268,01,400-04,"Unidentified",15:44:54,261
68751375,01,401-15,"Unidentified",15:42:52,22
68751374,01,401-14,"Unidentified",15:42:22,39
69156874,01,500-10,"Unidentified",15:40:40,72
69160975,01,501-15,"Unidentified",15:39:52,79
69156873,01,500-09,"Unidentified",15:38:53,39
68751368,01,401-08,"Unidentified",15:38:22,31
69156877,01,500-13,"Unidentified",15:36:48,6
69156876,01,500-12,"Unidentified",15:36:34,7
69156875,01,500-11,"Unidentified",15:34:17,4
68751371,01,401-11,"Unidentified",15:33:19,28
69156878,01,500-14,"Unidentified",15:27:15,17
68747273,01,400-09,"Unidentified",15:21:16,42
68747272,01,400-08,"Unidentified",15:21:13,16
69160974,01,501-14,"Unidentified",15:20:37,19
69156870,01,500-06,"Unidentified",14:58:59,1
69160962,01,501-02,"Unidentified",14:52:54,1
68751360,01,401-00,"Unidentified",14:32:26,2
69160970,01,501-10,"Unidentified",14:23:52,6
69160971,01,501-11,"Unidentified",14:22:42,3
68751361,01,401-01,"Unidentified",14:08:24,6

So what's all this mean? :shock: Am I type 1 or 2? what info do I need to program my scanner and what does this info mean? Any help is so greatly appreciated, Thank you! Thank you! Thank you! I'm losing my mind!! :shock: LOL

 

[WD4CQ]

When I went to enter my type I ID's that I have been logging all day I noticed the ARC250Pro v1.10 software automatically converted all the prior ID's I had worked so hard over the weekend to log over to type I ID's Yea!!!!!! All the ID's I had captured over the weekend were not lost, they were still listed and converted to the format below. I deleted massive amounts of duplicate ID's and added a few to the list that I had been logging today. This is what I have so far! It seems to have some logic as all Police is on 400-XX (400-04 is dispatch) and 500-XX seems to be public works (which shares the system) and 401-XX seems to be Law Enforcement (police type related stuff) and so on..... Does this look like I am on the right track? I was told by a trunking radio tech here that Fleet 400 would be Police and have a subfleet of 1 thru 6. I seem to be understanding this now but the jury is still in??? Any Help??? I think I'm mainly struggling with the "lingo" words Fleet, subfleet, Mapping and so on, and what they actucally mean :!: Once I confirm my scanner is setup correctly I can feel confident that I have the correct ID's (talkgroups) and can begin the fun part of Alphatagging them. Any Comments or help??

300-01
301-08
301-09
301-10
400-05
400-04
400-09
400-09
400-13
400-08
401-05
401-15
401-01
401-00
401-14
401-11
401-04
401-08
401-13
500-06
500-10
500-09
500-12
500-13
500-14
500-11
501-12
501-14
501-11
501-10
501-02
501-03
501-15

 

[WD4CQ]

OK, here is my latest update of what I have been logging. I do not know where to go from here! I do not understand Presets and fleetmapping yet. :shock: I need it explained in a simplier format. I am completely NEW to trunk track scanning! My last numbers are I-call numbers but I'm not sure why the i has been coming up before the number? When I was monitoring in type II the i was a 7. Ok folks where and what do I do next? Am I logging correct information or wasting my time? :?:

300-01

301-08
301-09
301-10

400-04 NBPD Dispatch
400-05
400-08
400-09
400-12
400-13
400-14
400-15

401-00
401-01
401-04
401-05
401-08
401-11
401-13
401-14
401-15

500-06
500-09
500-10
500-11
500-12
500-13
500-14

501-01
501-02
501-03
501-05
501-06
501-07
501-10
501-11
501-12
501-14
501-15

i32844
i33648
i48355
i48356

 

[fmon]

Your research appears to be in the correct direction and the software will insert a 0 in the ID.

Mot type II runs from 00000 to 65535. Type I runs from 000-00 thru 7xx-xx.

This table may help to determine range conversions between I and II.

Block Type I Type II
0 0xx-xx 00000 (realistically 00016 is the first ID)
1 1xx-xx 08192
2 2xx-xx 16384
3 3xx-xx 24576 Fire/EMS could be in this range
4 4xx-xx 32768 PD is in this range.
5 5xx-xx 40960 PW is in this range.
6 6xx-xx 49152
7 7xx-xx 57344 These burst could be data sent to mobile computers, but it may be digital communications. Your radio shop contacts should be able to verify. They should be able to tell you how many fleets, subfleets and ID's are available for each agency in the system. Thus you can use the chart on page 88 and this table to determine how to set your ARC program up.

Generally a talkgroup range will be 16 groups. I.E. 400-00 through 400-15 etc. Preset map 2 on page 85 may be the best for research. This as listed on page 88 provides each block with 1 fleet (PD), 16 subfleets (talkgroups, dispatch etc), and 512 ID’s (individual radios, UNITS—not talkgroups).

For additional info on Motorola systems, click on Home on the blue line near the top, then under Online Content click on Trunking Information then Motorola Trunking Information.

Frank

 

[WD4CQ]

Yes, the ARC250Pro v1.10 and ID Tracker v3.0.0 software does insert a 0 in the ID.

...and Yes, On our County Public Safety Analog Motorola Type I Smartnet 800Mhz system I have logged ID's from 300-01 to 700-01 on my Bearcat BC785D (I'll provide an updated log list later).

I'm still having trouble understanding this table :shock: which you said may help to determine my range conversions between I and II. (I have type I) I get lost at this part. :? I see how my 4XX-XX is next to Block 4, and 5XX-XX is next to block 5, is it just that simple? 0-7 blocks, I seem to be almost grasping some of this, but still not sure how this ties into programming my BC785D for my system. I'll update my post in a minute with a updated log of ID's to assist.

Block Type I Type II
0 0xx-xx 00000 (realistically 00016 is the first ID)
1 1xx-xx 08192
2 2xx-xx 16384
3 3xx-xx 24576 Fire/EMS could be in this range
4 4xx-xx 32768 PD is in this range.
5 5xx-xx 40960 PW is in this range.
6 6xx-xx 49152
7 7xx-xx 57344 These burst could be data sent to mobile computers, but it may be digital communications. Your radio shop contacts should be able to verify. They should be able to tell you how many fleets, subfleets and ID's are available for each agency in the system. Thus you can use the chart on page 88 and this table to determine how to set your ARC program up.

One thing you said "turned the lights on" :idea: for me and that was...

Generally a talkgroup range will be 16 groups. I.E. 400-00 through 400-15 etc. Preset map 2 on page 85 may be the best for research. This as listed on page 88 provides each block with 1 fleet (PD), 16 subfleets (talkgroups, dispatch etc), and 512 ID’s (individual radios, UNITS—not talkgroups).

Because I am seeing my 400-XX ID's going up to 400-15 and 401-15 and not higher (talking about the last 2 digits in those ID's of course).

I am also seeing all my 400-XX is Police, 500-XX is Public Works or Housing Authurity, 700-XX (Data) noise which I think is some of the control data and only heard on the 700-XX ID's so I lock those out.

Also I have been getting some of the same type of traffic on certain ID's. Here is a sample of my logging below: (still working on others)

400-04 Police Main Dispatch

401-08 EMS Main Dispatch
401-11 EMS Medic #2

Frank, your replies have been SOOoooo helpful. Thank you! I have read, and read for days on end! I've research the archives here, read the book over and over, it's coming together very very slowy...did I mention the very very part? Hahaha I've read each of your replies, line by line carefully to try to understand so your replies are very helpful. I'm continuing to study this, any help is so much appreciated. This is the best forum on trunk trak scanning I've found so far!

Thanks, 73's

...still reading and trying to understand it all.

 

[WD4CQ]

Here is my latest log data file from ID Tracker v3.0.0

I have my BC785D set up on ID Search and the ID Tracker v3.0.0 logging all ID's. The BC785D is on Control channel Only, I-call ON, End code OFF, Status bit OFF, Type I, delay NONE, I'm using Bank 1.

Freqs programmed into my bank one are:
856.2625 856.7375 857.2625 857.7375 858.2625
858.7375 859.2625 859.7375 860.2625 860.7375
860.9875

here is the latest log with comments I've made next to a few:

68747268,01,400-04,"NBPD Dispatch",12:29:35,1910
68747269,01,400-05,"Unidentified",12:28:37,203
69156873,01,500-09,"Unidentified",12:27:37,72
68747273,01,400-09,"Unidentified",12:26:00,137
68751371,01,401-11,"EMS Medic #2",12:21:55,67
68751368,01,401-08,"EMS Main Dispatch",12:15:39,65
69160966,01,501-06,"Unidentified",12:11:46,53
69160975,01,501-15,"Unidentified",11:56:24,203
69160974,01,501-14,"Unidentified",11:56:17,97
68747272,01,400-08,"Unidentified",11:49:04,52
68751374,01,401-14,"Unidentified",11:45:16,134
68747277,01,400-13,"Unidentified",11:44:03,29 ( Fire Comm's ?? )
69160963,01,501-03,"Unidentified",11:42:30,69
69160967,01,501-07,"Unidentified",19:03:25,29
68747276,01,400-12,"Unidentified",18:47:50,57
69156878,01,500-14,"Unidentified",18:46:06,129
100711703,01,i48407,"Unidentified",18:33:20,6
68751364,01,401-04,"Unidentified",18:27:34,40
69156865,01,500-01,"Unidentified",17:20:24,1
68751360,01,401-00,"Unidentified",17:05:18,13 ( Channel 2 ?? )
68751375,01,401-15,"Unidentified",16:28:52,63
69156874,01,500-10,"Unidentified",16:26:49,197
68751365,01,401-05,"Unidentified",16:13:09,3
100704012,01,i40716,"Unidentified",16:06:08,1
69160970,01,501-10,"Unidentified",15:46:16,24
69160971,01,501-11,"Unidentified",15:45:03,12
69156875,01,500-11,"Unidentified",15:26:19,13
68747270,01,400-06,"Unidentified",15:19:23,1
69160962,01,501-02,"Unidentified",15:12:11,7
68751373,01,401-13,"Unidentified",15:11:20,7
69156876,01,500-12,"Unidentified",14:53:28,20 ( Parks & Rec dept ?? )
68337665,01,300-01,"Unidentified",14:51:34,2
68747271,01,400-07,"Unidentified",14:48:38,2
69976068,01,700-04,"Unidentified",14:40:04,1
68747279,01,400-15,"Unidentified",13:44:41,9
100711829,01,i48533,"Unidentified",13:06:15,2
100711580,01,i48284,"Unidentified",13:05:59,6
69156877,01,500-13,"Unidentified",12:54:37,13
67518478,01,100-14,"Unidentified",12:54:15,1
100711652,01,i48356,"Unidentified",11:42:10,17
100711651,01,i48355,"Unidentified",11:41:39,10
69160965,01,501-05,"Unidentified",09:38:44,1
100696944,01,i33648,"Unidentified",09:33:46,1
68747278,01,400-14,"Unidentified",08:33:32,1
68751361,01,401-01,"Unidentified",08:23:43,20 ( car to car ??? )
100696140,01,i32844,"Unidentified",07:58:47,1
69160961,01,501-01,"Unidentified",07:25:50,1
69156870,01,500-06,"Unidentified",14:58:59,1
69160972,01,501-12,"Unidentified",13:36:04,3

 

[WD4CQ]

Ok, still trying to program my BC785D and BC250D Scanners for my local TRS 800 Mhz Motorola analog type I smartnet system (No hybrid). (they will be updating to type II digital next yr) I've been trying ONLY custom preset earilier, So I took your suggestion :wink: and I am NOW trying preset 2. With Preset 2, I do get the complete conversation on each one's own talkgroup, and I get Police Dispatch now on 400-02, (instead of 400-04 with preset fleetmap) and all replies to Police Dispatch goto 400-02. I'm still logging ID's and listening. But I want to get my fleetmap down before trying to tell who is who on each talkgroup. The info someone typed in a post to me in the North Carolina group below reallllyyyy made sense...

Just try each of the preset fleetmaps untill your sure your getting the complete conversation on each talkgroup. If your getting Dispatch on one, and the reply on another the map is wrong. When you get both sides of each conversation on an individual ID then you have it right. Thats about as simple as it gets. Make sure you have all the repeaters in, make sure your set up for iether type I, or for the type I, type IIi Hybrids, then go for fleetmapping.

That paragraph above helpes me understand alot better on fleet mapping and what it does! Why don't they say that it the book when trying to understand fleetmaps? LOL

I have the following settings on my BC785D setup:

Preset: 2
Plan: 1
Trunk: ON
Trunk Type: Type 1
All freqs below are programed into Bank #1:
856.2625 856.7375 857.2625 857.7375 858.2625
858.7375 859.2625 859.7375 860.2625 860.7375
860.9875
Status Bit: OFF
I-Call: ON
Control-Mode: ONLY (ON)

Then I hold trunk button down (or hit search) and go into Trunk ID search mode and log all ID's on computer with ID Tracker 3.1.0 Software.

Is this right???


Pleaseeeeeee.....I need all the help I can get! :shock: Any more helpful advise anyone??? :?: :?: :?: