BCD396T and ENC

[realgeo]

Good afternoon, everyone!

I've had this happen to me in the past, and I thought I had it solved, but alas the issue has returned.

When listening to the Douglas County P25 system, my 396T always seems to get hung-up on ENCrypted talkgroups. The scanner will stick on those talkgroups for the duration of the transmissions and refuses to move on, despite any settings I'm able to change.

I've enabled "Data Skip" feature, but that doesn't seem to change anything. I'm running the latest firmware, 3.01.00. Despite many peoples' reported issues with the installation of same, I had no problems and the audio quality appears to be better with this firmware.

Thanks in advance!

Geo

 

[rdale]

There are no settings, that's how the scanner is set and always has been. Press the L/O button if you don't want them back.

 

[NeFire242]

I'm not aware of any part-time encrypted TGIDs on the ORIN system, so like what rdale said might be the easiest way to get around this. Let us know.

 

[wb0qqk]

Good afternoon, everyone!
I've had this happen to me in the past, and I thought I had it solved, but alas the issue has returned.
When listening to the Douglas County P25 system, my 396T always seems to get hung-up on ENCrypted
talkgroups. The scanner will stick on those talkgroups for the duration of the transmissions and refuses to
move on, despite any settings I'm able to change.
I've enabled "Data Skip" feature, but that doesn't seem to change anything. I'm running the latest
firmware, 3.01.00. Despite many peoples' reported issues with the installation of same, I had no problems
and the audio quality appears to be better with this firmware. Thanks in advance! Geo

Believe it or not George, I've noticed a similar glitch in my department mobile radio. With the scan on and
the priority set for the LE East talkgroup, if traffic is exchanged on 16 (digital) and East begins to talk, often
the first part of the East traffic is missed. I usually don't scan with the portable radio since that consumes
more battery power during a 12 hour shift, so I hear East talking before the mobile radio switches back.

Several times I would have missed hearing a call during an exchange of traffic on 16 had I not picked it
up on my portable. You have to be careful not to have the portable volume up too loud so you don't get
feedback.

 

[realgeo]

I'm not aware of any part-time encrypted TGIDs on the ORIN system, so like what rdale said might be the easiest way to get around this. Let us know.

Howdy, NeFire242!

The TG's I'm getting stuck on the most are 646 and 644. I don't have the names programmed into my 396, but without looking at the site, I believe these have to do with NARC or similar functions.

RDale's advice about hitting the L/O button for those TG's is certainly a way to do it, but I could've sworn that the 396 was supposed to recognize the ENC bit in the stream and maybe hang on those TGs for a second at the most.

If you think about it, there's NO reason to stop and dwell on a TG running ENC - the user can't listen to it, and it takes up time when you'd like to be listening to other TGs.

I'm a BIG fan of the ID SEARCH mode in the 396 - true, it makes for some disjointed conversations at times, but it also lets you see new TGs that come up.... for instance M.A.T.!!! :*)

Geo

 

[realgeo]

Believe it or not George, I've noticed a similar glitch in my department mobile radio. With the scan on and
the priority set for the LE East talkgroup, if traffic is exchanged on 16 (digital) and East begins to talk, often
the first part of the East traffic is missed. I usually don't scan with the portable radio since that consumes
more battery power during a 12 hour shift, so I hear East talking before the mobile radio switches back.

Several times I would have missed hearing a call during an exchange of traffic on 16 had I not picked it
up on my portable. You have to be careful not to have the portable volume up too loud so you don't get
feedback.

Yo, Frank!

Interesting about how your mobile works, but it is understandable. I suspect that it probably comes down to a question of processing power in the radio. Even though you're in scan and the priority is set for EAST, your radio is devoting quite a bit of CPU horsepower to process the IMBE traffic, while at the same time trying to keep in-tune with the Control Channel and maintain state with the priority TG you've selected.

If you and another Officer are close to each other and are talking on 16, is there quite a bit of delay - maybe more than what you'd normally expect in the IMBE vocoding process?

73's

 

[obijohn]

I suspect that your problem George is that your scanner does not detect that the traffic is encrypted.

In "low level" encryption, such as ADP, I believe that the scanner "thinks" that it is CAI, thus, you hear the "raw" data. In the "high level" encryption modes (when the optional encryption board is installed)
you should be able to see that the data stream is encrypted. Not so in the "cheap" ADP flash.

 

[obijohn]

Yo, Frank!

Interesting about how your mobile works, but it is understandable. I suspect that it probably comes down to a question of processing power in the radio. Even though you're in scan and the priority is set for EAST, your radio is devoting quite a bit of CPU horsepower to process the IMBE traffic

The newer XTL/XTS radios use a unique dual UPC combo called the "patriot" IC.

One half is the "front panel" UPC, and the other is the "DSP".

Frank is probably still using the older ASTRO spectra in his assigned car.

PS: Frank...I see a unique ORION id assigned to just about everyone in Bellevue but you. Do you still have your old astro saber? Or are you"stealthy"?

 

[realgeo]

I suspect that your problem George is that your scanner does not detect that the traffic is encrypted.

In "low level" encryption, such as ADP, I believe that the scanner "thinks" that it is CAI, thus, you hear the "raw" data. In the "high level" encryption modes (when the optional encryption board is installed)
you should be able to see that the data stream is encrypted. Not so in the "cheap" ADP flash.

Hey, John!!

I, too, considered that... however, my 396T is displaying the ENC indicator for encrypted P25 on both ORIN and Sarpy, so I think the scanner is correctly interpreting the flag for encrypted transmissions. Regular voice shows as P25 and data shows as DAT. Now, all I need to do is figure out how to make it skip these ENC transmissions.

I can't verify it right now, but I'm pretty sure that my 796D does skip encrypted transmissions.

73

 

[rdale]

realgeo - as others have noted above, the 396/996 will display ENC and sit on the muted audio.

 

[NeFire242]

Perhaps its sitting there thinking once a user lets go of the granted channel on the next go around it could be in the clear so its waiting to see if that is the case? Yet when in fact its encrypted all of the time but the scanner wouldn't know this, so it sits there waiting to hear if it can monitor any clear traffic.

 

[rdale]

Perhaps its sitting there thinking once a user lets go of the granted channel on the next go around it could be in the clear so its waiting to see if that is the case?

Not really. If it went back to scanning, it would quickly return to that channel if no other talkgroups were active. So you could hear other things on the system instead of stuck on muted audio.

Then if the next go around someone broadcast in the clear, it would hear them too.

Neither scanner line handles encrypted stuff very well -- but probably could.

 

[realgeo]

Happy Thanksgiving, everyone!

Well, I certainly appreciate the commentary that my question has evoked. I knew that I would be able to source some good information on the topic and that's what you all have provided!

The _ideal_ case would be to detect the ENC bit in any transmission and skip past it after a reasonable amount of time instead of staying on that transmission and presenting silence. Maybe something like a "temporary" lockout - something that the scanner would "remember" for a certain window of time.

Locking out a particular channel or TG just to get rid of encrypted transmissions is okay, as long as that channel or TG _always_ carries encrypted transmissions. However, should a particular channel or transmission run in "mixed-mode", then pressing the L/O button probably isn't the optimum solution.

I agree - scanners _could_ handle the encrypted transmissions quite a bit better.

Thanks again, everyone! I appreciate it!

73's