BCD396XT - expected range?

[quanin]

I ended up swapping out the BC75XLT I was given and will be going with the BCD396XT instead. I do a mix of analog and digital scanning, probably ending up with both convensional and trunked systems when all's said and done. Assuming I don't replace the antenna it comes with (hint: I eventually plan to), what range can I expect to get away with using this scanner? For instance: Can I pick up the Renfrew County fire dept easily enough from Pembroke/Petawawa, or will I require a better antenna? Fire depts etc don't appear to be trunked, so that probably extremely limits my range - unless I know absolutely nothing about this (it's been a while), at which point I'm open to being educated.

The antenna I'm probably going with once I get used to the scanner, unless I should pick another: All-Band Portable SMA Antenna

 

[W8RMH]

Range has more to do with the transmitting station, such as it's power, location, antenna elevation, local terrain, etc. than it does with the scanner itself or it's antenna.

I have found that an antenna rated for the frequency you will be receiving works better than the wide band stock antenna. Just try it with the stock antenna and see how it does. The antenna link you posted is the same antenna that comes with the scanner.

If you have problems receiving a certain frequency range you may want to consider a frequency specific antenna. The fact that it is analog or digital really doesn't matter, it is all based on the frequency.

Ninety-nine percent of what I listen to is 760-870 MHz. so I tend to use antennas made for these frequency ranges.

 

[quanin]

I expect I'll be all over the map (150, 400, 800, some others) when I actually get going just due to the nature of the things I listen to and the places I'm going, so I'm reluctant to grab a frequency-specific antenna at this point.

 

[Voyager]

I would recommend the Radio Shack "800 MHz Antenna".

 

[quanin]

Doesn't that one perform not so well on frequencies that aren't 800 MHZ?

 

[AA6IO]

I listen to all kinds of different frequencies here in Los Angeles area on my scanners, ranging from 36 Mhz (CHP) to 935 Mhz (some trunking sites). As much as I would like to have one antenna to cover that entire range, it doesn't really work that well. The Radio Shack antenna with the center-coil and Diamond RH77CA work reasonably well across that range, but still not nearly as good as specific antennas for each range. You can get by pretty well with one of the antennas I mentioned for VHF/UHF and add the RS-800 for 800/900. That antenna is really a great portable antenna for 800.　　　
　　If the stock antenna works for you, great. Personally, I have not had much luck with them and use other antennas. On 800, I find a paper clip sometimes does better than the stock antennas.

Steve AA6IO

 

[quanin]

I see. I guess what I'm asking is if listening to most of those frequencies with one antenna is a viable option. Because things are scattered here, I'd theoretically have to switch antennas depending on whether or not I wanted to listen to the fire dept or police. It wouldn't be a dealbreaker, but if I'm mobile it could potentially get mildly annoying.

 

[AA6IO]

You may be lucky, and the stock antenna will do OK. If not, then your best bet, IMHO, would be to next try the adjustable Radio Shack antenna with the center coil. You can adjust to all different heights, and get pretty good coverage. That probably would be fine for portable use. If the stations are primarily 400 Mhz and above, you may find that the RS-800 would do a good job, if you also need 800.
One thing I find when I go mobile with my portable scanners is to use a mag mount antenna. Don't like a permanently mounted antenna, because a lot of car thefts here in Los Angeles. They see something like that, and its an open invite.
I have a couple of small mag mounts (small footprints) that you just pop on the car, put through the window (small diameter cable, so you can close window), and works well. Anything outside the car will be better than a portable antenna just attached to the radio.
Good luck Quanin, whatever your decision. Hope you enjoy whatever scanner and antenna you ultimately choose.
Steve AA6IO

 

[Voyager]

Doesn't that one perform not so well on frequencies that aren't 800 MHZ?

It performs well above the stock antenna at 700/800/900 MHz, better than the stock antenna at UHF, nearly the same at VHF, and forget it for Low Band.

I read the 760-870 MHz from RMH's post and mistook it for your range. Still, if your emphasis is on UHF+, it would be an upgrade.

 

[DaveH]

I ended up swapping out the BC75XLT I was given and will be going with the BCD396XT instead. I do a mix of analog and digital scanning, probably ending up with both convensional and trunked systems when all's said and done. Assuming I don't replace the antenna it comes with (hint: I eventually plan to), what range can I expect to get away with using this scanner? For instance: Can I pick up the Renfrew County fire dept easily enough from Pembroke/Petawawa, or will I require a better antenna? Fire depts etc don't appear to be trunked, so that probably extremely limits my range - unless I know absolutely nothing about this (it's been a while), at which point I'm open to being educated.

The antenna I'm probably going with once I get used to the scanner, unless I should pick another: All-Band Portable SMA Antenna

If you're in Renfrew County the majority of listenable signals are VHF highband (136-174)
and UHF (406-470). There is almost nothing useful to hear in the 700/800/900MHz bands
at this point so why get an antenna that's optimized for these...

Also, lowband VHF (30-50) is in declining use but may provide a bit of listening (some
MIL activity, including Petawawa), but other major users (Hydro One and MNR) are
migrating away from it. A separate antenna (even old CB antenna) could work for this.

The Uniden antenna (as with other "all-band" or "multi-band" antennas) will be a compromise,
particularly on lowband and 800.

Dave

Also: airband listening (civil/military) if that's what you want is outside the above ranges but still
considered VHF/UHF; 118-136 and 225-400MHz).

 

[DaveH]

If you're in Renfrew County the majority of listenable signals are VHF highband (136-174) and UHF (406-470). There is almost nothing useful to hear in the 700/800/900MHz bands
at this point so why get an antenna that's optimized for these...
.

Ottawa's 800MHz EDACS system soon to be new 800MHz P25 system won't be heard
too far up the valley at least under normal conditions or without external (and probably
directional) antenna. Pembroke/Petawawa is out of range.

However, that could change if you go to the top of Foymount . I can hear stuff coming
from there, which is >100km from my location in Ottawa, using a roof-mounted antenna.
I use 423.9875 and 424.3875 digital (DMR) signals as a check of conditions, including
my antenna's.

Dave

 

[EJB]

I listen to all kinds of different frequencies here in Los Angeles area on my scanners, ranging from 36 Mhz (CHP) to 935 Mhz (some trunking sites). As much as I would like to have one antenna to cover that entire range, it doesn't really work that well. The Radio Shack antenna with the center-coil and Diamond RH77CA work reasonably well across that range, but still not nearly as good as specific antennas for each range. You can get by pretty well with one of the antennas I mentioned for VHF/UHF and add the RS-800 for 800/900. That antenna is really a great portable antenna for 800.　　　
　　If the stock antenna works for you, great. Personally, I have not had much luck with them and use other antennas. On 800, I find a paper clip sometimes does better than the stock antennas.

Steve AA6IO

I loved this antenna, it made a difference from the stock antenna that came with any Uniden Scanner. The one thing that I didn't like about it was that it was so darn long and I couldn't stick the scanner in my pocket and walk around with it. And it would tip the scanner over if I laid it on a table.

I have a bunch of antennas, I have something similar to the RH77CA, a Watson W-881. It might be a little shorter than the RH77CA but it pretty much does the same thing.

My best Rubber Ducky's are Larsen's. A member here gave me a wonderful antenna, it's cut for VHF Hi. It is better than the RH77CA IMHP. Case in point. I am 40 KM/25M away from Brantford. I face Brantford but without my mag mount antennas I can't really get Brantford but a few weeks ago I was able to sit outside on my balcony, facing Brantford and I was amazed that I was getting Brantford, Cayuga (To the SW also) and Mowat (to the North about 60 km away) with the RB Larson. Normally I need to take one of the magmounts I have on the balcony to get anything more than 20-30 Km away.

A member here gave me the Larsen antenna, I can take a picture of it and the other Larsen that I have had now for over 10 years (the older one is falling apart and we had to put some heat shrink on it to keep it together). Perhaps the fine gentleman who gave me this antenna can chime in here and give us the make and model or catalogue # of it but if not let me know and I will snap a picture of it, let me know.

 

[EJB]

I loved this antenna, it made a difference from the stock antenna that came with any Uniden Scanner. The one thing that I didn't like about it was that it was so darn long and I couldn't stick the scanner in my pocket and walk around with it. And it would tip the scanner over if I laid it on a table.

I have a bunch of antennas, I have something similar to the RH77CA, a Watson W-881. It might be a little shorter than the RH77CA but it pretty much does the same thing.

My best Rubber Ducky's are Larsen's. A member here gave me a wonderful antenna, it's cut for VHF Hi. It is better than the RH77CA IMHP. Case in point. I am 40 KM/25M away from Brantford. I face Brantford but without my mag mount antennas I can't really get Brantford but a few weeks ago I was able to sit outside on my balcony, facing Brantford and I was amazed that I was getting Brantford, Cayuga (To the SW also) and Mowat (to the North about 60 km away) with the RB Larson. Normally I need to take one of the magmounts I have on the balcony to get anything more than 20-30 Km away.

A member here gave me the Larsen antenna, I can take a picture of it and the other Larsen that I have had now for over 10 years (the older one is falling apart and we had to put some heat shrink on it to keep it together). Perhaps the fine gentleman who gave me this antenna can chime in here and give us the make and model or catalogue # of it but if not let me know and I will snap a picture of it, let me know.

About stock antennas: Radio Shack antennas from memory were decent on 800, but lousy on anything else. When I was more into 800 Mgh trunked systems the stock antennas for both Radio Shack and Uniden scanners were ok. Even the antenna that came with the Home Patrol was ok for 800 megs but crap on anything else.

I would have issues getting a good enough signal on our Fleetnet tower in the VHF Hi range unless I was line of site in my radio room, I am line of sight here of the tower that is on top of the tallest building in Hamilton, the lower city, I guess that I am about 10 km of it and I can see it from our apartment. Away from the radio room, in my living room I had trouble with this tower but I live in a concrete slab and am surrounded by other buildings and numerous cell towers in the area, and I would generally switch from the stock antenna to the Watson antenna I mentioned and the Diamond Antenna the fine gentleman from Cali mentioned.

I used to think that the 396T was kinda deaf but after going the Home Patrol route and getting into a couple of GRE scanners (600 + 800) I find that the 396T is much less deaf and capable of a bit more range than the GRE scanners I mentioned. I can't speak of any experience for a 396XT but maybe it's the same as my 396T that I recently got from a member here. Side by side with my PSR800 the 396T blows it away for distant towers, it's not even close.

To the original poster: You might want to get a mag mount antenna if you aren't going to move the radio much and either stick it in a window or get really creative; and buy a discone antenna and place it on your roof or in an attic. I don't have access to my roof but I can wedge in a cookie sheet in my window and I am using a homebrew, a wire hanger cut specifically for VHF Hi and placed in a mag mount as well as a KSMA Antenna that is shorter, designed for multi-bands.

In conclusion (sorry, I am long winded, lol) the range you can expect:

Stock Uniden antenna: Hit and miss for anything more than 20m/30km on VHF Hi, decent on 800 megs.
Watson W-881 & Diamond 77RH: 30-50 KM for VHF Hi, poor on 800 megs.
Larsen: Unknown antenna cat #, cut for VHF Hi: up to 50 km
KSMA Wedged in a window, line of site towards the S/SW: Up to 70, sometimes more.

 

[quanin]

That's probably a large part of my problem. The scanner won't be staying in one place - I'm back and forth between Ottawa and Petawawa, and have been known to end up down around Toronto on occasion. For general interest's sake, I usually bring it with me - and also because I know a few folks who're into the hobby that occasionally like to compare notes.

 

[DaveH]

That's probably a large part of my problem. The scanner won't be staying in one place - I'm back and forth between Ottawa and Petawawa, and have been known to end up down around Toronto on occasion. For general interest's sake, I usually bring it with me - and also because I know a few folks who're into the hobby that occasionally like to compare notes.

OK, in that case you will probably want some 700/800MHz capability. One option is a couple of
antennas, one optimized for VHF/UHF and the other for 700/800MHz (which should work somewhat
on UHF).

Keep in mind that if you're an avid police listener, most of the newer systems feature (?)
encryption. Other services may or may not be encrypted. This includes VHF/UHF and
700/800MHz. It certainly narrows down the usefulness of 700/800. There is some analog
800/900 activity left in larger centres, but rapidly dwindling.

The new CFB Petawawa trunked system is VHF, P25 Phase I (so far) which the 396
can handle.

Radiall/Larsen has a single antenna for mobile use rated for 150/450/800MHz, a loaded
whip about 17" high, but won't fit directly on the scanner; good if you go with a mobile
antenna, or fixed location with a mag mount and a bit of metal for ground-plane. There are
similar others.

http://www.theantennafarm.com/catalog/larsen-nmo150-450-800-1050.html

I don't know the stock antenna for the 396. The one you point to is cheap enough but
is it likely much if any better? Always good to have a spare though.

Dave

 

[quanin]

I see. I really have no idea what will or won't work for me honestly. The last time I had anything to do with scanning was when everything was pretty much still analog, and the only thing you'd run the risk of hearing up around 800 MHz was the occasional chordless telephone - so the million dollar question was escentially whether or not you were close enough for it to matter.

Basicly, I'm looking for frequency flexibility. I don't expect to hit everything perfectly, but portability is where I'd like to focus - stick the thing in a pocket or hang it off my belt and there it goes. I don't own a car, and I doubt Ottawa's transit system for one would take too kindly to me bringing a magmount along.

If I were planning on keeping it in one place, I'd probably just get myself a base unit with an outdoor antenna and call it a day, since I do know those will almost always provide me with better reception. But I'm willing to give up a little of that reception if it means a portable antenna that doesn't suck. Since I know absolutely nothing whatsoever about this, I hope this helps someone point me in a direction.

 

[sudsyjkh]

Just a heads up: The 396xt will *likely* not track the new city of Ottawa system (fire/OC transpo/all other city services] once it is complete. They are currently in the early stages of testing with APCO25 phase I but the system is capable of doing phase II and the likelihood of them using that is pretty high once it goes live (city is hoping for July 2015) and the Edacs system goes quiet. The only handheld radios on the market that will do phase II right now are the psr-800/ws-1080/pro-668 and the Uniden bcd436HP. Toronto's new APCO system is also phase II.

 

[mikewazowski]

It will track it fine. There's really not that much difference between a Phase I and a Phase II control channel.

What it won't do is allow him to listen to the TDMA talkgroups.

 

[EJB]

If you're in Renfrew County the majority of listenable signals are VHF highband (136-174)
and UHF (406-470). There is almost nothing useful to hear in the 700/800/900MHz bands
at this point so why get an antenna that's optimized for these...

Also, lowband VHF (30-50) is in declining use but may provide a bit of listening (some
MIL activity, including Petawawa), but other major users (Hydro One and MNR) are
migrating away from it. A separate antenna (even old CB antenna) could work for this.

The Uniden antenna (as with other "all-band" or "multi-band" antennas) will be a compromise,
particularly on lowband and 800.

Dave

Also: airband listening (civil/military) if that's what you want is outside the above ranges but still
considered VHF/UHF; 118-136 and 225-400MHz).

Your range depends on your situation, where you are, what is around you, mountains, buildings? Even trees. We used to have a cottage on the Bruce Peninsula, it's rocky which doesn't help reception but when we were lucky to go up there in the winter I was able to receive better 'cause there were no leaves on the hardwood trees.

When I lived in Midtown Toronto I was able to receive towers such as Primrose in Dufferin County and Skylon with a rubber ducky antenna, higher up helps.

And now living in western Burlington it is more miss than hit if I want to scan anything like Guelph or B-fad in NW Halton, the escarpment blocks stuff else.

But I am messing around with the 25-50 MHZ band these days in the afternoon and I get a Canadian clock indicator with its continuous UTC time indicator on 25 MHZ like it was next door. I am listening to Spanish speaking comms in and around 26.800 very clearly as well as Chicken band stuff from god knows where.

You are gonna love the 396XT, enjoy.

 

[quanin]

It will track it fine. There's really not that much difference between a Phase I and a Phase II control channel.

What it won't do is allow him to listen to the TDMA talkgroups.

Considering I probably wouldn't know exactly what a TDMA talkgroup is, I'll try not to be concerned overmuch 'til something goes missing.

Edit: Colour me educated. Still probably no reason to be overly concerned as of yet. Thanks for the heads up, though.