BCD436 Channel hold on a multi-site system

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dragoncooler

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Forgive my elementary questions, my last scanner was a BC-780xlt prior to re-banding.

One thing I have noticed is when I hold a channel on a multi-site EDACS system it doesn't always follow the conversation. For example, If a dispatcher says "go to channel B" and I hold on Ch. B. I hear nothing. But when I scan, it will finally come in.

I assume this is because the transmission will come from different sites. While I may be holding on Site A, the new transmission will come from Site C. I know the scanner is smart enough to follow this, I'm likely just doing something wrong, I just don't know what.
 

jonwienke

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It's possible the channels/talkgroups aren't correctly labeled in the database, and you're holding on the wrong channel/talkgroup.

The site you're hearing is displayed in small print under the Department when you're receiving a transmission. See if it changes between dispatch and response.
 

ChrisABQ

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I have the same type of issue on the Albuquerque EDACS ProVoice system. During car chases or other radio heavy events, I'll hold on the area command to monitor it. If it's on there for maybe 10 - 15 minutes or so, I notice that nothing is coming through, the channel goes quiet. I have to hit hold again and go back to regular scan to pick it up, even though it's on the very same TGID when it hits it again. This has happened many many times. It is a two site system, one with 4 towers in the city (1 a mile from me) and 3 towers located atop local mountains on the other. This is a simulcast system for the most part.
 

dragoncooler

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Chris,

That nearly describes San Antonio here. They have about 4-5 Towers with 2 being simulcast. I am still learning how all that works.

Jon,
I dont think any of it is wrong as I can stay on some conversations, I guess if they are close to or use the same tower when talking. Really not sure how it all works just yet.

Thank you both for the help!
 

k3fs

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Same issue with DMR and other trunked systems. When you hold on a talk group, the radio at times will hold on the site as well. Every mow and then I notice the radio is scanning through the sites. But, mostly it stays locked on the one site. Very frustrating. There is no way to scan all the sites, while holding on a TG. You can can, however, select a site to hold.

Not sure why it chooses stay on one site, even when you were initially scanning all sites. You would think it would continue to scan all sites. It does not show this behavior when holding a department.
 

Tim-B

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I've seen the same thing happen on multiple models of scanners but on mine it only seems to go silent if the control channel is momentarily lost then reacquired while holding on a channel or if I am mobile and I move out of range of one control channel and the scanner acquires another. If I hit scan again that same talkgroup will come up again but this time with traffic on it. It does not go silent if the scanner remains on that one control channel without losing it. I have had this happen with various models of both Uniden and GRE scanners. Because I can release the hold (after it goes silent) and start scanning again and come up with traffic on that same talkgroup immediately it seems to suggest a bug in the firmware.

Just to confirm that it is some kind of bug with hold mode I have had another scanner going in scan mode on that same site and the one in scan mode received the traffic but the one on hold did not.
 

milf

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Remember on the X36HPs, that Dept, is also the Site hold button... There should be a trick to hold on the dept, and not the site, and vice versa... Will have to re read the easier to read manual,... and see if I can find all the tricks for various holds to figure out.. Thank goodness I have NO EDACS anywhere near me! But it does have the wonkiness on DMR TRS sometimes......
 

jonwienke

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It's called the Function button.

Function, then Dept Hold holds on a site.
 

tglendye

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It's called the Function button.

Function, then Dept Hold holds on a site.
Yes... I think this is part of the answer.

The other part may be due to it being EDACS. In the EDACS ProVoice I monitor, if more than one channels are patched together, the system seems to create a different (and temporary) talkgroup. It is a different TGID each time and the x36 needs to be in the ID Search mode to receive. If you are holding on "Channel B" in this instance, you would not hear anything. The conversation would appear on a totally different TGID than the TG's being patched.
 

ChrisABQ

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So, in other words, there is no way to hold on a single active channel as it is in some sort of process of change at any given time?
 

milf

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On Motorola and p25 it is flawless. On EDACS and DMR sometimes this issue is cropping up. Not sure its an patch thing though.

Sent from my LG-K330 using Tapatalk
 

troymail

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So, in other words, there is no way to hold on a single active channel as it is in some sort of process of change at any given time?
Reading through this thread, I just remembered what was mentioned by someone else ... I learned that a ProVoice system in Maryland (sometimes?) creates "dynamic" talkgroup IDs when patches are setup/used. I realize this isn't a multi-site system....

Cecil County Trunking System, Elkton, Maryland - Scanner Frequencies

However, it isn't clear if the original question is related to patches (note that for the system above, at least some "patch" talkgroups are in the library/database so it is possible). If it is, then "ID Search" might be a good idea.

In either case, once the talkgroup of interest comes up, pressing the CHAN/MOD button *should* hold on that talkgroup.

I thought I recalled from the past that when holding on a talkgroup, the radio would still cycle through programmed sites but that doesn't seem to be the case as I look right now. Maybe that was when holding on a department ... I either remember that wrong or something in the firmware has changed. Now I'm curious.... If I am traveling and holding on a statewide talkgroup, I would expect the sites to change - particularly if I'm using GPS.
 

drdispatch

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I don't have much experience with EDACS, but with a P25 system, if you hold on a TG, it will stay on the site which you were receiving when you hit HOLD. Now the issue that I see with that is this:
Let's say that the conversation involves a mobile unit, and said mobile unit is the only radio on that TG that is affiliated with the site you are monitoring (Site "A"). Then that mobile unit moves away from that site & in the process changes its affiliation to a different site (Site "B"). Suddenly you will find that you are hearing nothing on your scanner which is "held" on the TG but is only monitoring Site "A", while the conversation proceeds on Site "B" without you.
Again, this would be the case on a P25 system (and not necessarily a simulcast system, because I don't have much experience with those, either); I don't know if EDACS would work the same way.
 

jonwienke

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It's rare that you'll pick up a conversation on a roaming mobile just before it unaffiliates with a site that doesn't normally carry that TG. It can happen, but it's unlikely.
 

ChrisABQ

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I tested this again last night. I tried just the channel hold, the dept hold and site hold and also used channel lock in conjunction with the higher level holds, no dice. Channel goes silent after several minutes. There are 3 patches set up on the system and they were never used. Went back to scan and picked up traffic on same TGID and site.
 

dragoncooler

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Wow, I cant believe I opened this can of worms. Glad to know its not just me and that i'm not doing something wrong.

Someone mentioned a possible bug with 'holding'. I don't know if this is by design or not. Thoughts?
 

troymail

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Wow, I cant believe I opened this can of worms. Glad to know its not just me and that i'm not doing something wrong.

Someone mentioned a possible bug with 'holding'. I don't know if this is by design or not. Thoughts?
I'm pretty sure that earlier versions of FW still rotated through sites that are in range (at least for P25) when holding on a talkgroup but I could be wrong.... given the example I cited earlier, it should rotate even when holding - particularly for example, for wide-area (i.e. statewide) talkgroups being held while mobile and using GPS/location control.
 

ChrisABQ

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Not exposing a can of worms by any means, if this is a bug, Uniden should address it. But since this is a system on the way out, it may be something we have to live with.
 

jonwienke

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I'm pretty sure that earlier versions of FW still rotated through sites that are in range (at least for P25) when holding on a talkgroup but I could be wrong.... given the example I cited earlier, it should rotate even when holding - particularly for example, for wide-area (i.e. statewide) talkgroups being held while mobile and using GPS/location control.
No. Placing a hold has always locked every level of hierarchy above the hold. The only hold that continues to scan sites is a system hold. Holding a department or channel pauses the scanner on the site it was on when the hold was placed.
 

cellphone

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Holding a system will continue to scan all sites.
Holding a department will continue to scan all sites.
Holding a channel will remain on the site that is active when the hold initiates.

There is a bug (feature?) where the site will change when holding a channel for a long period of time. This more frequently happens when a channel is held with a talkgroup on a weaker site. After some time, the site will change to a stronger site. This has been discussed on the forums in the past, but has not been addressed by Uniden.
 
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