BCD436HP charging question

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hydrasports

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From what I have seen and read you can not charge your batteries and listen to your 436 at the same time. Is it possible to take the batteries out and just plug the usb into the port and plug it into the wall for power to listen to it?

Also when charging the batteries does the 436 tell you when they are fully charged and stop charging so it does not overcharge the batteries?
 

hiegtx

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From what I have seen and read you can not charge your batteries and listen to your 436 at the same time. Is it possible to take the batteries out and just plug the usb into the port and plug it into the wall for power to listen to it?

Also when charging the batteries does the 436 tell you when they are fully charged and stop charging so it does not overcharge the batteries?
While you could operate the 436HP without batteries in it, if you do so, you lose some features, most prominently recording. So, you could not record what you were hearing, and the replay function would be disabled. Also, if running only on the adapter, any power glitch, such as a brief drop out, or accidentally unplugging the ac adapter or the cable to the scanner, could result in a corrupted memory card.

The "charge" in the scanner is only a timed charger, not a smart charger. You set charge time in the scanner. It charges at a low rate, so that it should not damage the batteries, but since the batteries are connected serially, you may not get a full, complete charge on one or more of them. With an external 'smart' charger, you get the best battery charge. If charging in the scanner, when the charge times out, you get a "charge complete" message on the screen (as noted, the scanner has to be turned of before batteries will be charged).
 

jonwienke

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You can operate on external power even with batteries installed. This is preferable, because the scanner will not crash if the power fails (power outage or inadvertent unplugging of power cord), which can corrupt the memory card.

Charging operates on a timer. You can adjust the charge time in the scanner menu. Charging is slow, so it won't cook the batteries.
 

marksmith

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The charging circuit is just a timer. And the charging is serial, so when it stops there is no guarantee each battery is fully charged. Obviously it does not let you know when the batteries are fully charged, because it does not know.

For a reasonably cheap cost, you can get a proper charger that fully charges the batteries, does it in less time, tells you the battery status, stops when the batteries are charged and not just a timer, charges the batteries individually and not in a series, has shutoff protection for batteries that become shorted, etc.

When you look at what features a real charger has, you can only loosely refer to the circuit in the 436 as a "charger"

Sent from my LG-V410 using Tapatalk
 

hydrasports

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You can operate on external power even with batteries installed. This is preferable, because the scanner will not crash if the power fails (power outage or inadvertent unplugging of power cord), which can corrupt the memory card.
I tried that but when it asks do you want to charge and I answer no it then says something about the usp driver and wouldn't go to a scanner mode. Am I missing something? I have to admit I love the scanner but does take time getting used to.
 

UPMan

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Please be specific about what message displays and where it displays (on the scanner or your PC).
 

marksmith

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I think I will just use my wall charger to charge the batteries when needed. This way I won't hurt the scanner if the batteries decide to leak or overcharge.
Always a good decision. The 436 is a very expensive featureless battery charger.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others
 

dcisive

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OK so now you have my curiosity up. I set mine for 14 hours. Are you telling me that after 14 hours there is a chance one of the batteries won't be fully charged? Hard to believe. I'm using 2450mah Pro Eneloop NmHi's. I have highly competent outboard chargers (pulse type) that do their job, but I'd prefer to NOT have to remove the scanner from it's hard leather case all the time as it's nice and snug. Taking it in and out all the time would eventually loosen it up a bit which frankly I'd prefer not to do. I'm fine with built in charging as long as eventually it WILL get the batteries to a full charge. And would also like to know has anyone determined how much time it takes to truly get internal batteries 100% charged? Isn't 14 hours enough? Thanks
 

hydrasports

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I was actually nervous for the exact opposite reason. I was thinking 14 hours be too much and overcharge the batteries causing them to rupture or something like that getting acid inside the scanner. I just figured I would rather be safe then sorry and take them out to charge and keep an extra set around ready to switch out when they need charging.
 

marksmith

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Depending on the state of each of your cells, the fact that I think it's charging at a low 200mh etc, it is absolutely entirely possible that not all of the cells have been fully charged.

If you use an actual proper battery charger it can take 14 or more hours at the lowest setting to charge all the cells. A proper charger is independently charging each cell, where the 436 charges in series, so if one cell is less than optimum, all or some of the others may not charge properly.

Bottom line is, the 436 is one heck of an expensive, featureless, unprotected battery charger. There is nothing in there to shut it off if a bad shorted battery starts to overheat, or any other problems.

Personally, I just think it's a bad idea to use the radio as a charger. Rechargeable batteries occasionally need to be reconditioned for maximum life and cycle time, and they will also spot failing batteries for you. And a good battery charger is made for charging batteries.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others
 

dcisive

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I wish UPMan would enlighten us as to exactly HOW the internal 436 charger functions, if it has ANY saftety measures within it's circuits to protect over charging of batteries, and if there is a "preferred" time schedule to allow the unit to charge for (14hrs, 8hrs or what). I'd love to hear directly from someone at Uniden as to how this thing was designed and operates. It would at least eliminate all the speculation. Personally I'd prefer to just be able to plug the radio in at night and expect the batteries to be topped off next day 8-14 hours later, but perhaps this is wishful thinking. But still....I'd love to hear the FACTS from the source if it's possible. I'd even accept the word of a real tech that perhaps might have torn one of the 436's down and examined it's design and execution of what it was designed for. I'm also into photography and there are sources for those, that for example tear down and give full analysis of lenses and camera bodies, which is big time informative to allow one to know what is truly going on. Same with the 436, I'd like to KNOW what is going on and in particular with the charging circuit it uses.
 

hiegtx

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Depending on the state of each of your cells, the fact that I think it's charging at a low 200mh etc, it is absolutely entirely possible that not all of the cells have been fully charged.

If you use an actual proper battery charger it can take 14 or more hours at the lowest setting to charge all the cells. A proper charger is independently charging each cell, where the 436 charges in series, so if one cell is less than optimum, all or some of the others may not charge properly.

Bottom line is, the 436 is one heck of an expensive, featureless, unprotected battery charger. There is nothing in there to shut it off if a bad shorted battery starts to overheat, or any other problems.

Personally, I just think it's a bad idea to use the radio as a charger. Rechargeable batteries occasionally need to be reconditioned for maximum life and cycle time, and they will also spot failing batteries for you. And a good battery charger is made for charging batteries.

Mark
536/436/WS1095/HP1/HP2/996T/996XT/996P2/396XT/325P2/PSR800/15X/others
The 200mah rate sounds correct to me as well, based on previous posts. For models such as the HP-1, where the charge time is set via entering the battery capacity, a 2400mah battery would calculate a charge time of just over 14 hours.
I wish UPMan would enlighten us as to exactly HOW the internal 436 charger functions, if it has ANY saftety measures within it's circuits to protect over charging of batteries, and if there is a "preferred" time schedule to allow the unit to charge for (14hrs, 8hrs or what). I'd love to hear directly from someone at Uniden as to how this thing was designed and operates. It would at least eliminate all the speculation. Personally I'd prefer to just be able to plug the radio in at night and expect the batteries to be topped off next day 8-14 hours later, but perhaps this is wishful thinking. But still....I'd love to hear the FACTS from the source if it's possible. I'd even accept the word of a real tech that perhaps might have torn one of the 436's down and examined it's design and execution of what it was designed for. I'm also into photography and there are sources for those, that for example tear down and give full analysis of lenses and camera bodies, which is big time informative to allow one to know what is truly going on. Same with the 436, I'd like to KNOW what is going on and in particular with the charging circuit it uses.
From what UPMan has posted in the past, the charge rate is set low enough that the batteries do not overheat excessively enough to cause damage to the scanner or batteries. If the scanner was left in 'charge' mode, undisturbed, and the correct time was set based on battery capacity, then after that designated time period ends the cells should be at or near capacity.

However, the 'charger' circuit in the scanner is simply a timed charger. As the batteries are being charged in series, instead of individually, not even a "smart" charger would be able to determine the charge status of each individual cell, nor would it be able to vary the rate for any single cell. While you could plug the scanner in and set it to charge at bedtime, there is no way to know or guarantee that any or all of the batteries would be fully charged 8 to 10 hours later in the morning. Depending on the state of charge when the charge function was activated, as well as the battery capacity, they might be anywhere from fully charged, or only to 50%. Also note that the charge time, regardless of whatever length that you set, is based on thine from when started. If there is a power interruption along the way, the charge would reset itself to 14 hours (or whatever value was set) and start all over
 

SOFA_KING

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I measured the 436 current draw and discovered the timed charger is 280 ma. It actually reads 300 ma, but the scanner draws 20 ma in the off position. For 2500 mah batteries I calculated about 9 hours was right. Of course there is no charge when the scanner is on, but be careful when you turn it back off that the charger doesn't come back on and overcharge a set that is already charged.

By the way, running current measures around 200 ma.

Phil
 

N5XTC

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OK so now you have my curiosity up. I set mine for 14 hours. Are you telling me that after 14 hours there is a chance one of the batteries won't be fully charged? Hard to believe. I'm using 2450mah Pro Eneloop NmHi's. I have highly competent outboard chargers (pulse type) that do their job, but I'd prefer to NOT have to remove the scanner from it's hard leather case all the time as it's nice and snug. Taking it in and out all the time would eventually loosen it up a bit which frankly I'd prefer not to do. I'm fine with built in charging as long as eventually it WILL get the batteries to a full charge. And would also like to know has anyone determined how much time it takes to truly get internal batteries 100% charged? Isn't 14 hours enough? Thanks
I have the SOFT case for the 436 and really LOVE it. to get the case off, i have found that you need put some air into it by separating it the plastic on the front from the screen by placing your fingers in between and moving the plastic out some. then, the case comes off very easily. maybe switching to the soft case will help. i really like this case as it keep the scanner safe from scratches and from dropping it, which eventually everyone does. be nice if it had rubber pads on the corners to protect it more. my only mod i would have made. the plastic covers all the way to the buttons and u can still see the service light and use the buttons. really nice for $29 or whatever it was. i wish they made one for the 396xt. i read the ones out there are too tight. if anyone knows a good one for the 396xt post a link or message me, please.
 

dcisive

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As I mentioned in another thread I went with the Hard Leather case when I picked up my 436 from ScannerMaster last week. What a great case. super protective with high quality stitching and the clear plastic on the front is extremely well applied, transparent and thicker than the others. It feels great to hold it in that case and it stands very securely. The Belt Clip is a metal affair on a metal bracket so for those that like clips this is another good choice. All cut outs are perfect for all switches and access to the plugs and such. Great design and execution.
 

milf

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As I mentioned in another thread I went with the Hard Leather case when I picked up my 436 from ScannerMaster last week. What a great case. super protective with high quality stitching and the clear plastic on the front is extremely well applied, transparent and thicker than the others. It feels great to hold it in that case and it stands very securely. The Belt Clip is a metal affair on a metal bracket so for those that like clips this is another good choice. All cut outs are perfect for all switches and access to the plugs and such. Great design and execution.
I got lucky and the guy that I got mine from sent an professional Motorola leather HT swivel case with belt loop. It fits the 436 perfectly.
 

jonwienke

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I wish UPMan would enlighten us as to exactly HOW the internal 436 charger functions, if it has ANY saftety measures within it's circuits to protect over charging of batteries, and if there is a "preferred" time schedule to allow the unit to charge for (14hrs, 8hrs or what). I'd love to hear directly from someone at Uniden as to how this thing was designed and operates.
Actually, he has posted on this topic on several occasions--you're not the first person to ask this question.

The charger runs on a simple timer. You can set the duration in the scanner menu. The current is low enough that it won't damage the batteries even if they are already fully charged. "Optimal" charge duration depends on the discharge state of the batteries and their total capacity.

The reason for this idiocy was to comply with certain California energy efficiency mandates, which unsurprisingly have the exact opposite of their intended effect. Charging off a timer instead of intelligently monitoring battery state wastes all charging energy after the batteries are fully charged. And of course disallowing charging while the scanner is running is an annoying inconvenience.
 

UPMan

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Actually, the reason is that you cannot intelligently charge NiMH batteries in series. CEC rules are why we don't provide a USB charger with the scanner.
 

jonwienke

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Actually, the reason is that you cannot intelligently charge NiMH batteries in series.
I question that, given the proliferation of NiMH chargers that charge pairs of batteries in series.

If one battery is going bad, series charging makes it harder to detect the error, and cannot identify which of the batteries is failing.

But if all the cells are good, and reasonably matched in capacity, one can reasonably approximate intelligent charging by multiplying the single-cell charging cycle voltage values by the number of cells in series.
 
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