BCD536 not receiving Phase 2

[tatersalad]

Update: I cleared the user data on the SDS100. I updated the firmware and downloaded the programming from my SDS200. It works well in Ennis and the area. I drove north on I-45 from Ennis. I received transmissions until I got around the Ellis/Dallas County line, which is in Ferris, Tx. I continued to receive transmissions on my Motorola MPX6000. I have no idea why I'm not picking up anything in the NTIRN. VHF analog and P25 signals are good.

 

[RMason]

Does the sds200 receive past the county line?

Also, I want to confirm that you don’t have a GPS hooked up to the sds100.

 

[wtp]

so the work radio that could be st up the change towers gets reception but the radio that does not you get nothing.
i an just pointing out that the work radio could be changing towers/frequencies.
why not set the SDS up for the dallas towers ?
or in other words, get or use a GPS and listen to the closer towers.

 

[JoeBearcat]

Does the sds200 receive past the county line?

Also, I want to confirm that you don’t have a GPS hooked up to the sds100.

I too was wondering if the GPS is disabling something, and that is the reason for the loss.

Or if there were a RR update that the scanner does not have (like a new control channel that has not been updated on the scanner).

 

[hiegtx]

so the work radio that could be st up the change towers gets reception but the radio that does not you get nothing.
i an just pointing out that the work radio could be changing towers/frequencies.
why not set the SDS up for the dallas towers ?
or in other words, get or use a GPS and listen to the closer towers.

That's not going to help. NTIRN is a semi-regional system here in the DFW area. The Ellis County site on the system is simulcast, so there is no "closer tower" to use, whether entered manually, or controlled by the use of location control (with, or without) using a GPS.

The Dallas County sites being referenced are also simulcast, and are part of NTIRN. What's labeled as 'Dallas Layer 1' as well as 'Dallas Layer 2' are simulcast, so once again, there is no alternate site (closer) to monitor.

Update: I cleared the user data on the SDS100. I updated the firmware and downloaded the programming from my SDS200. It works well in Ennis and the area. I drove north on I-45 from Ennis. I received transmissions until I got around the Ellis/Dallas County line, which is in Ferris, Tx. I continued to receive transmissions on my Motorola MPX6000. I have no idea why I'm not picking up anything in the NTIRN. VHF analog and P25 signals are good.

Let me ask this of you. For the SDS100 that you are dealing with, was it purchased brand new? Or was it previously owned, purchased from the classifieds here on RR, eBay, or somewhere else. If it is an earlier production unit, you may be affected by the infamous 'cold solder joints' that plagued the SDS100's until a later production change eliminated the problems. Look at the serial number, to tell when it was manufactured.

I'm farther north than Hutchins, and not having a problem receiving either of the Dallas layers. I can also monitor Ellis County on my SDS100, as well as other scanners.

 

[wtp]

heigtx,
i thought he was saying that when in the Dallas county he was trying to hear Ellis.
and that it would make sense to listen to Dallas county and not try to listen to Ellis.
and that the work radio could be set up to change towers/counties and that would be why he hears the system.
and you are local, so your input would be more on the mark.

 

[hiegtx]

heigtx,
i thought he was saying that when in the Dallas county he was trying to hear Ellis.
and that it would make sense to listen to Dallas county and not try to listen to Ellis.
and that the work radio could be set up to change towers/counties and that would be why he hears the system.
and you are local, so your input would be more on the mark.

You are correct. When in Dallas County, he still wants to hear Ellis, and hear some of the Dallas radio traffic when down in Ellis. Hutchins, which has been mentioned, is a small town in southern Dallas County, (The OP mentioned that someone he knows, that lives there, would also like to monitor.) As yet, Hutchins is still using their Vhf-high channels, but they are supposed to migrate to NTIRN later on. As yet, I have not seen a solid time-table as to the migration dates for Hutchins & four others scheduled to move. One of the southern Dallas County cities, Lancaster, has moved to NTIRN from their NXDN system. For added entertainment, the FCC license for Lancaster's NXDN system expired last fall, but they were still using it until they moved to NTIRN this spring. Last I checked, a few days ago, the control channel was still up, but no activity.

I'm farther away than the places he's talking about, yet I can hear the Ellis County agencies. I'm in between two of the sites for the Dallas Layers 1 & 2 sites, so the Dallas County side is no problem at all to monitor with an SDS scanner.

 

[RMason]

@hiegtx : Trying to clarify..... What sites would you recommend that the OP have programmed to receive Ellis County in Hutchins? Should the Ellis County site be sufficient? Or should he be using one of the Dallas Layers as well?

 

[hiegtx]

@hiegtx : Trying to clarify..... What sites would you recommend that the OP have programmed to receive Ellis County in Hutchins? Should the Ellis County site be sufficient? Or should he be using one of the Dallas Layers as well?

The Ellis County site is simulcast, with 5 transmit towers, so there is no alternative site for Ellis County. The Ellis County TGIDs would not be carried on either of the Dallas sites, which are also simulcast, unless the Ellis County unit was in Dallas and could not affiliate with their ‘home’ site.

By the same token, Dallas (city and county) units would not normally be on Ellis County. There might be few ‘exceptions’ for some of the smaller cities. Lancaster, in southern Dallas County, borders on Red Oak, which is in Ellis. Those two cities back each other up and assist each other (at times) for structure fires and vehicle accidents.

Desoto (Dallas Cty) often responds to Glenn Heights (Ellis Cty) for assistance, but so far, Glenn Heights is still VHF, as far as I know. I’m not hearing calls for Glenn Heights addresses on NTIRN, at least so far.

Cedar Hill (Dallas Cty) extends across the county line into Ellis, and often works with Midlothian for incidents along their common border. Cedar Hill, Desoto, and Duncanville are still on their existing NXDN system. They are supposed to move to NTIRN later this year, tho I have not seen a specific time table.

With a good 800Mhz antenna, I would expect to hear Ellis County in Hutchins or Wilmer. I am much farther north (and west) of Hutchins and have no problem with Ellis County traffic. That is why I was asking about the OPs SDS100. If it was manufactured before the ‘cold solder’ joint issues were addressed at the assembly point, that might be a contributing factor.

 

[RMason]

The Ellis County site is simulcast, with 5 transmit towers, so there is no alternative site for Ellis County. The Ellis County TGIDs would not be carried on either of the Dallas sites, which are also simulcast, unless the Ellis County unit was in Dallas and could not affiliate with their ‘home’ site.

By the same token, Dallas (city and county) units would not normally be on Ellis County. There might be few ‘exceptions’ for some of the smaller cities. Lancaster, in southern Dallas County, borders on Red Oak, which is in Ellis. Those two cities back each other up and assist each other (at times) for structure fires and vehicle accidents.

Desoto (Dallas Cty) often responds to Glenn Heights (Ellis Cty) for assistance, but so far, Glenn Heights is still VHF, as far as I know. I’m not hearing calls for Glenn Heights addresses on NTIRN, at least so far.

Cedar Hill (Dallas Cty) extends across the county line into Ellis, and often works with Midlothian for incidents along their common border. Cedar Hill, Desoto, and Duncanville are still on their existing NXDN system. They are supposed to move to NTIRN later this year, tho I have not seen a specific time table.

With a good 800Mhz antenna, I would expect to hear Ellis County in Hutchins or Wilmer. I am much farther north (and west) of Hutchins and have no problem with Ellis County traffic. That is why I was asking about the OPs SDS100. If it was manufactured before the ‘cold solder’ joint issues were addressed at the assembly point, that might be a contributing factor.

Thanks for the information and perspective

 

[tatersalad]

I bought the SDS100 new in the box. What series of serial numbers would be considered an older model?

 

[tatersalad]

According to the serial number, the 5th number is a 2. Which the way I understanding is that the scanner was manufactured in 2022?

 

[tatersalad]

It works great in Ennis. Not so much

Does the sds200 receive past the county line?

Also, I want to confirm that you don’t have a GPS hooked up to the sds100.

It doesn't receive past the county line. I don't have a GPS connected to the scanner.

 

[tatersalad]

It works great in Ennis. Not so much

It doesn't receive past the county line. I don't have a GPS connected to the scanner.

Correction...yes, the SDS200 receives past the county line. Not the SDS100

 

[tatersalad]

The Ellis County site is simulcast, with 5 transmit towers, so there is no alternative site for Ellis County. The Ellis County TGIDs would not be carried on either of the Dallas sites, which are also simulcast, unless the Ellis County unit was in Dallas and could not affiliate with their ‘home’ site.

By the same token, Dallas (city and county) units would not normally be on Ellis County. There might be few ‘exceptions’ for some of the smaller cities. Lancaster, in southern Dallas County, borders on Red Oak, which is in Ellis. Those two cities back each other up and assist each other (at times) for structure fires and vehicle accidents.

Desoto (Dallas Cty) often responds to Glenn Heights (Ellis Cty) for assistance, but so far, Glenn Heights is still VHF, as far as I know. I’m not hearing calls for Glenn Heights addresses on NTIRN, at least so far.

Cedar Hill (Dallas Cty) extends across the county line into Ellis, and often works with Midlothian for incidents along their common border. Cedar Hill, Desoto, and Duncanville are still on their existing NXDN system. They are supposed to move to NTIRN later this year, tho I have not seen a specific time table.

With a good 800Mhz antenna, I would expect to hear Ellis County in Hutchins or Wilmer. I am much farther north (and west) of Hutchins and have no problem with Ellis County traffic. That is why I was asking about the OPs SDS100. If it was manufactured before the ‘cold solder’ joint issues were addressed at the assembly point, that might be a contributing factor.

According to the serial number, the 5th number is a 2. The way I understand is that the scanner was manufactured in 2022?

 

[tatersalad]

Update: The GPS is off, the location control is off. The scanner is new out of the box and manufactured in 2022. The firmware is updated and current.

 

[hiegtx]

According to the serial number, the 5th number is a 2. The way I understand is that the scanner was manufactured in 2022?

Yep, should be 2022 production, so 'current' as opposed to old.

Update: The GPS is off, the location control is off. The scanner is new out of the box and manufactured in 2022. The firmware is updated and current.

Since it is a 'new' unit (as opposed from early production), the likelihood of the dreaded cold solder joint is remote. A failure, even though unexpected, of pretty much any electronic or mechanical device, regardless of the age, is always a possibility, even though it is uncommon.

Update: The GPS is off, the location control is off. The scanner is new out of the box and manufactured in 2022. The firmware is updated and current.

That rules out a firmware issue.

It works great in Ennis. Not so much

It doesn't receive past the county line. I don't have a GPS connected to the scanner.

Correction...yes, the SDS200 receives past the county line. Not the SDS100

It's hard for me to come up with a definitive answer, If the SDS200 still works 'on either side of the county line', whereas the SDS100 does not, that does not make sense to me. (Not doubting you by any means, but this is unexpected.) I believe you said that you had loaded the SDS200 list into the SDS100 to see if that changed anything. Is that correct? (Disregard that; Went back over the thread and saw where you mentioned that.)

Have you tried whatever antenna you use on the SDS200, when it is 'working across the county line', on the SDS100 (at the same location?)? I'm approaching a dead end on suggestions, other than an antenna failure (either the antenna or the connection in the scanner), or a problem with your SDS100, despite it being current production, that is affecting it.

I have some free time this week. I'll try to go over to Hutchins, with my SDS100 & one of my 436HPs, and see if I can hear Ellis County while there using the 800MHz antennas that I use at home, and can hear Ellis County even though that's inside my house, which has aluminum siding. If I can hear Ennis (in Hutchins), then I can drop down to Ennis, and see if I can get either of the two Dallas layers on NTIRN from there, again on the same two radios, with the same antennas. I did take a look at the relative altitude for that stretch of I-45, and did not any significant height variance along that path that would block a signal. I'll post my results once I get a chance to do that test.

 

[tatersalad]

Yep, should be 2022 production, so 'current' as opposed to old.

Since it is a 'new' unit (as opposed from early production), the likelihood of the dreaded cold solder joint is remote. A failure, even though unexpected, of pretty much any electronic or mechanical device, regardless of the age, is always a possibility, even though it is uncommon.

That rules out a firmware issue.




It's hard for me to come up with a definitive answer, If the SDS200 still works 'on either side of the county line', whereas the SDS100 does not, that does not make sense to me. (Not doubting you by any means, but this is unexpected.) I believe you said that you had loaded the SDS200 list into the SDS100 to see if that changed anything. Is that correct? (Disregard that; Went back over the thread and saw where you mentioned that.)

Have you tried whatever antenna you use on the SDS200, when it is 'working across the county line', on the SDS100 (at the same location?)? I'm approaching a dead end on suggestions, other than an antenna failure (either the antenna or the connection in the scanner), or a problem with your SDS100, despite it being current production, that is affecting it.

I have some free time this week. I'll try to go over to Hutchins, with my SDS100 & one of my 436HPs, and see if I can hear Ellis County while there using the 800MHz antennas that I use at home, and can hear Ellis County even though that's inside my house, which has aluminum siding. If I can hear Ennis (in Hutchins), then I can drop down to Ennis, and see if I can get either of the two Dallas layers on NTIRN from there, again on the same two radios, with the same antennas. I did take a look at the relative altitude for that stretch of I-45, and did not any significant height variance along that path that would block a signal. I'll post my results once I get a chance to do that test.

Thank you!!! I'll be going to Hutchins on Thursday. I'll see if there are any changes.

 

[hiegtx]

Yep, should be 2022 production, so 'current' as opposed to old.

Since it is a 'new' unit (as opposed from early production), the likelihood of the dreaded cold solder joint is remote. A failure, even though unexpected, of pretty much any electronic or mechanical device, regardless of the age, is always a possibility, even though it is uncommon.

That rules out a firmware issue.




It's hard for me to come up with a definitive answer, If the SDS200 still works 'on either side of the county line', whereas the SDS100 does not, that does not make sense to me. (Not doubting you by any means, but this is unexpected.) I believe you said that you had loaded the SDS200 list into the SDS100 to see if that changed anything. Is that correct? (Disregard that; Went back over the thread and saw where you mentioned that.)

Have you tried whatever antenna you use on the SDS200, when it is 'working across the county line', on the SDS100 (at the same location?)? I'm approaching a dead end on suggestions, other than an antenna failure (either the antenna or the connection in the scanner), or a problem with your SDS100, despite it being current production, that is affecting it.

I have some free time this week. I'll try to go over to Hutchins, with my SDS100 & one of my 436HPs, and see if I can hear Ellis County while there using the 800MHz antennas that I use at home, and can hear Ellis County even though that's inside my house, which has aluminum siding. If I can hear Ennis (in Hutchins), then I can drop down to Ennis, and see if I can get either of the two Dallas layers on NTIRN from there, again on the same two radios, with the same antennas. I did take a look at the relative altitude for that stretch of I-45, and did not any significant height variance along that path that would block a signal. I'll post my results once I get a chance to do that test.

As mentioned above, I had a chance today to 'road test' the OPs results. I used my SDS100, with the SDS specific 800MHz antenna on place. The Ellis County sites, as well as those for Dallas, are all on NTIRN, as are a number of other area cities.

Sitting by the Whataburger in Hutchins, which was closed due to a power failure, I was not getting any activity on the Ellis County portion of the system. System Analyze did not pick up anything from the Ellis County simulcast. The scanner remained inside my SUV; I was not using an external antenna, which probably would have performed better. That location is about 10 miles from the Red Oak site on the Ellis County side of NTIRN, 17 miles from Waxahachie, and just short of 25 miles to the site southeast of Ennis.

Going south on I-45, I began to pick up some Ellis County traffic before crossing the line into Wilmer (which is also in Dallas County). At that point, I was also still hearing the Dallas County traffic. I could still hear Dallas in Ferris, although weaker, especially in Palmer.

Once I got to Ennis, I stopped at the Sonic just west of I-45. As expected, I could easily hear the Ellis County traffic on NTIRN. However, I had completely lost the Dallas traffic. Again, a check using Analyze, showed no 'pulse' on either of the Dallas layers. So that is also a dead zone. The closest 'known' Dallas site to Ennis is probably the one at the Dallas Southside Waste Water treatment plant, 4 miles east of Hutchins. It's about 22 miles from that point to where I stopped in Ennis.

Returning to Dallas, I went west on Hwy 287. About halfway to Waxahachie, the two Dallas layers were coming in. I got a better look at the display closer to Waxahachie, and the SDS100 was showing 3 bars (which is merely an indicator of signal strength). I did lose Dallas again for a while approaching Midlothian, but there is a significant change in terrain between there & back to Dallas. Hwy 287, south of Midlothian, is on the 'back side of the hill'. Once I got 'up the hill' from 287 to the northwest part of Midlothian, on Hwy 67,, I started hearing Dallas again.

While there is not a large, noticeable, hill between Hutchins & Ennis, the terrain does have it's ups & downs, maybe enough to make a difference. There is also the probability that the antenna patterns are set to favor traffic within the county. I did not try using the mag mount external antenna that I use on my trips west of the DFW area, but that might have made some difference. I would have expected better results than I actually got.

 

[tatersalad]

That's disappointing, but at least I know it's not the SDS100. It's strange that the Motorola MPX6000 transmits and receives on the NTIRN from Hutchins, but not a scanner. At work "we" routinely go to the Medical City area on Forrest Lane in Dallas or Parkland Hospital and don't have any issues with the mobile or portable radio.
The location in Hutchins where I had the SDS100 is several blocks west of Dairy Queen off of Palestine St. I tried the factory antenna as well as an outside antenna on an 8' mast on top of the house and still didn't get anything.

Thank you for helping me troubleshoot everything. 73